Prospect Info: 2023 NHL Draft - Potential Selection Discussion

[SeaOfBlue]

If this was Dubas, I wouldn't be as excited. (although his last trade back was decent) This time around, I don't mind the trade back.

As people mentioned, Lardis and Brindley are good options.

BUT if we're going for the smaller skilled guy with one pick, I want the big monster with the other pick. If we have one in the 60's I want: Brady Cleveland. A massive, violent, 6'5 meathead with zero offense. However, his defensive metrics are good. A few pages back, he was rated as one of the best defensive D's in the draft. I want an evil ogre on the team.

Brady Cleveland - 2023 NHL Draft Prospect Profile - The Hockey Writers NHL Entry Draft Latest News, Analysis & More

Brady Cleveland is a solid prospect, and he should get plenty of interest at the 2023 NHL Entry Draft because of it.

thehockeywriters.com

Major reach for Cleveland if he goes anywhere in the double digits.

Few things that need to be pointed out about him. He is a solid skater. He is physical. He is excellent at defending with his stick.

But there is a lot of "bad": Offensively, he doesn't have enough to make the NHL, even as a pure defensive guy. No shot. No real vision or skill in the offensive end to the point where he may actively kill offense for his team when he is on the ice. There are real concerns with how he leverages his body in defensive situations and positions himself, which is really concerning given his size (especially compared to his peers) and his very defensive style of play. His ability to make basic passes is inconsistent, although good enough to work fairly well when playing in limited roles. That is the other thing: This is a fairly weak NTDP defensive crop and despite that, he is still their worst LHD. He was playing as their #7 behind a bunch of guys who are borderline top 100 talents at best, and that was before Hutson arrived.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I think his hockey sense isn't that bad. Look at what his coach said:

“You just don’t see many kids play like he does in today’s game and when you do have someone like Brady, it impacts the entire lineup. But I think the other big thing with Brady is his play in his own end. He’s got a great stick, he kills plays, he can skate and I thought he did a really good job moving pucks up for us. Plus he was someone we trusted a lot on the penalty kill. So with all of those and his physical element, he can add a dynamic that not every team has.”

Also, a few pages back, he was considered one of the best defensive defenceman in the draft on that ranking page that someone posted. That takes sense and smarts!

I mean, he's not a first round choice for me, but a late 2nd/early 3rd trade down pick? I'd go for it.

And yet his coach used him less than pretty much everyone on his team.

I'll be honest, I had him going undrafted for much of this year, and he is still a late-round long shot at best. He is that big of a project. If he wasn't a rare physical grade, or his skating was even half a point lower, or he wasn't going the long route through the NCAA, he still would be an easy undrafted guy for me. But because you can take it slow with him, and with a lot of work you may turn him into a good enough #6 that would be better than what you would typically find in a 6th or 7th round, I figured he would be worth putting on my late-round target list. But I have other "large" guys who I would take long before him.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

If Cleveland is sheltered and struggles with outlet passes or decision making at lower levels, I can't see him being able to do it in the fastest league in the world.

We've drafted for size and physicality in the past and a good lot of them weren't even able to make an impact in the AHL. Hockey IQ should always be the #1 focus and everything else should come after. If you can't process the game fast enough, you are always going to be behind. No matter what else you bring.

 

[Malachi Crunch]

And yet his coach used him less than pretty much everyone on his team.

I'll be honest, I had him going undrafted for much of this year, and he is still a late-round long shot at best. He is that big of a project. If he wasn't a rare physical grade, or his skating was even half a point lower, or he wasn't going the long route through the NCAA, he still would be an easy undrafted guy for me. But because you can take it slow with him, and with a lot of work you may turn him into a good enough #6 that would be better than what you would typically find in a 6th or 7th round, I figured he would be worth putting on my late-round target list. But I have other "large" guys who I would take long before him.

If we can get him in the 6th round, even better!

I do recognize the concerns, but leveraging his body in defensive situations and positioning, IMO, is fixable. If he can continue to master all aspects of being a physical, stay-at-home D, then I think he has a shot. I guess we will find out where he goes tomorrow.

 

[4thline]

Cleveland is an interesting player
Luke Schenn

In his U18 Luke Schenn managed 29 points on a WHL team that didn't see a single player score 20 goals

 

[SeaOfBlue]

If we can get him in the 6th round, even better!

I do recognize the concerns, but leveraging his body in defensive situations and positioning, IMO, is fixable. If he can continue to master all aspects of being a physical, stay-at-home D, then I think he has a shot. I guess we will find out where he goes tomorrow.

Wasn't really fixable for Rasanen.

Cleveland was a slightly smoother skater but Rasanen was much better offensively, moving the puck, etc. Rasanen ultimately couldn't process the game at a pro level and he didn't even come close to the NHL.

Cleveland is taking a similar swing except on a guy with no offense.

More or less my rankings for this year.

Player	2023 Ranking	Average DC Ranking
Connor Bedard	5	5
Matvei Michkov	5	5
Adam Fantilli	5	5
Leo Carlsson	5	5
Will Smith	5	5
Zach Benson	10	5
Oliver Moore	10	10
David Reinbacher	10	10
Ryan Leonard	10	10
Matthew Wood	10	15
Dalibor Dvorsky	15	15
Colby Barlow	15	15
Axel Sandin Pellikka	15	15
Nate Danielson	15	25
Calum Ritchie	15	25
Brayden Yager	25	25
Gabriel Perreault	25	25
Mikhail Gulyayev	25	25
Samuel Honzek	25	25
Ethan Gauthier	25	25
Eduard Sale	25	25
Gavin Brindley	25	25
Otto Stenberg	25	25
Quentin Musty	25	25
Dmitri Simashev	25	25
Lukas Dragicevic	50	25
Andrew Cristall	50	50
Riley Heidt	50	50
Michael Hrabal	50	50
Bradley Nadeau	50	50
Kasper Halttunen	50	50
Tanner Molendyk	50	50
Jayden Perron	50	50
Nick Lardis	50	50
Daniil But	50	50
Charlie Stramel	50	50
Coulson Pitre	50	50
Carson Rehkopf	50	50
Koehn Ziemmer	50	50
Oliver Bonk	50	50
Beau Akey	50	50
Hunter Brzustewicz	50	50
Caden Price	50	50
Theo Lindstein	50	50
Etienne Morin	50	50
Kalan Lind	50	50
Tom Willander	50	50
Gracyn Sawchyn	50	50
Mathieu Cataford	50	50
William Whitelaw	50	50
Jacob Fowler	75	75
Cameron Allen	75	75
Luca Cagnoni	75	75
Trey Augustine	75	75
Jakub Dvorak	75	75
Carson Bjarnason	75	75
Adam Gajan	75	75
Tristan Bertucci	75	75
Maxim Strbak	75	75
Luca Pinelli	75	75
Alex Ciernik	75	75
Andrew Gibson	75	75
Noah Dower Nilsson	75	75
Danny Nelson	75	75
Scott Ratzlaff	75	75
Alexander Rykov	75	75
Carey Terrance	75	75
Gavin McCarthy	75	75
Easton Cowan	75	75
Martin Misiak	75	75
Anton Wahlberg	75	75
Nico Myatovic	75	75
Lenni Hameenaho	75	75
Oscar Fisker Molgaard	75	75
David Edstrom	75	75
Quinton Burns	100	75
Jesse Kiiskinen	100	100
Denver Barkey	100	100
Matthew Mania	100	100
Aram Minnetian	100	100
Ethan Miedema	100	100
Andrew Strathmann	100	100
Tyler Peddle	100	100
Tommaso De Luca	100	100
Brad Gardiner	100	100
Dylan MacKinnon	100	100
Felix Nilsson	100	100
Carter Sotheran	100	100
Sawyer Mynio	100	100
Jaden Lipinski	100	100
Albert Wikman	100	100
Felix Unger Sorum	100	100
Drew Fortescue	100	100
Paul Fischer	100	100
Connor Levis	100	100
Aydar Suniev	100	100
Cam Squires	100	100
Zach Nehring	100	100
Beckett Hendrickson	100	100
Stephen Peck	100	100

More or less what I have. Don't pay attention to ordering within the tiers... It is sorted in my sheet by some criteria but that doesn't mean they are slated to go above/below anyone in their own tier.

Last Minute Change #1: Took out Paul Fischer (100/100) for Damian Clara (100/100).

I still have Fischer as a late round target.

 

[Green Snow Storm]

Terrell Goldsmith is a guy I'd consider taking with our 6th if we want a big rangy physical D.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

And yet his coach used him less than pretty much everyone on his team.

I'll be honest, I had him going undrafted for much of this year, and he is still a late-round long shot at best. He is that big of a project. If he wasn't a rare physical grade, or his skating was even half a point lower, or he wasn't going the long route through the NCAA, he still would be an easy undrafted guy for me. But because you can take it slow with him, and with a lot of work you may turn him into a good enough #6 that would be better than what you would typically find in a 6th or 7th round, I figured he would be worth putting on my late-round target list. But I have other "large" guys who I would take long before him.

Terrell Goldsmith is a guy I'd consider taking with our 6th if we want a big rangy physical D.

Goldsmith is not that rangy, but he is really good in his own end.

He is less of an overall "project" than Cleveland, but he is still a project and the bolded applies to him, which is why I have him going undrafted personally. Although I could see some team taking him. Still plenty of teams that like these throwbacks even though they are almost guaranteed busts (especially out of the CHL).

 

[Fogelhund]

Cleveland is an interesting player
Luke Schenn

No, certainly not a Luke Schenn. Schenn can move the puck a little now and was never terrible. He put up half a point a game in his final junior season. Cleveland hasn’t scored a goal since high school in 2020/21 and in over 150 games since, has 16 assists. He’s a complete black hole offensively and I’m moving the puck. But he is big, and physical.

 

[GrizzGreen]

No, certainly not a Luke Schenn. Schenn can move the puck a little now and was never terrible. He put up half a point a game in his final junior season. Cleveland hasn’t scored a goal since high school in 2020/21 and in over 150 games since, has 16 assists. He’s a complete black hole offensively and I’m moving the puck. But he is big, and physical.

Schenn was good in Jrs, just misused in his start as a Leaf.... as can be applied to a lot of players

 

[RoadWarrior]

That would b

I have a feeling we will be trading back

Tor 28
Chic 35 + 67

That would be a mistake in this draft. I see three tiers of players 1 to 9, 10 to 39 and 40 to 70.

At 35 you won't have that many quality choices remaining and the guy at 67 would be a long shot at best.

You can get a quality player at 28 this year.

Dubas' last trade back (I am only counting picks for picks) is looking like a home run so far.

Turned #79 into Moldenhauer and Grebenkin.

And before that, he turned #44 into Hirvonen and Niemela.

I really like the idea of trading back (especially in later rounds) if you don't have a specific target.

For example, I think they discussed it with Knies, but they decided he was too good to pass up.

Also, drafting for size seems like a Hunter specialty and something I'd avoid.

You don't draft for size. You draft for projectability.

Sometimes a small speedy guy projects better than a bigger slower player. However size is always a factor.

 

[Maplebeasts]

You would think in 2023 people would understand that size and physicality needs to be attached to a quality player for it to be worth anything. Cleveland is a do not draft for me.

 

[notbias]

You don't draft for size. You draft for projectability.

Sometimes a small speedy guy projects better than a bigger slower player. However size is always a factor.

Agreed.

I was just pointing out that putting an emphasis on drafting players with size does not usually work out unless they have other qualities, and the complete players with size are usually top 15 players.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Any chance Perreault falls to us? Maybe him being the third best player on his line could cause him to fall a bit.

 

[Green Snow Storm]

Any chance Perreault falls to us? Maybe him being the third best player on his line could cause him to fall a bit.

I'd say very improbable.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Any chance Perreault falls to us? Maybe him being the third best player on his line could cause him to fall a bit.

Zero chance.

The guys who might fall would be Sale, Gulyeyev, Heidt, Cristall and Ritchie. All of them have top line potential but none are complete players. Hrabal, Gajan and Fowler would be decent goalie selections. Musty was a candidate to drop but big guys with offensive skill never fall.

 

[Malachi Crunch]

You would think in 2023 people would understand that size and physicality needs to be attached to a quality player for it to be worth anything. Cleveland is a do not draft for me.

We're not talking first round for Cleveland. For a later round, I see him as a good option.

 

[DragoGrizzly]

Do any of you guys have any opinions on Kalan Lind? I’m thinking we may trade back for more picks so trying to look into guys that’ll go later in the draft that could be interesting.

 

[RoadWarrior]

I disagree. Brindley has that Trevor Moore quality to his game. There are many players of all sizes that have zero value if they don't score... Scoring is hard in pro hockey. He seems pretty good away from the puck and competes hard along the boards in his forecheck. I really don't see that being an issue. From what I've seen he seems more of a puck distributer, so perhaps goal scoring won't be high for him, but offense won't be any issue being generated.

I think there are better players at #28 but I think Brindley is someone that will make people regret overlooking his size, just like they did with Hutson.

Trevor Moore is basically that 2nd/3rd line agitator who can be used in multiple roles but you can do better than that in this draft with the 28th pick. Moore was signed as a free agent by the leafs.

 

[leafsfan2point0]

If Musty is somehow there we need to take him.

 

[francis246]

I have a feeling we will be trading back

Tor 28
Chic 35 + 67

I don’t think so, based on Wes Clark’s comments and Brad Treliving’s comments, it sounds like they are picking. I think they feel very comfortable with the cluster of players who will be available at 28.

 

[Maplebeasts]

We're not talking first round for Cleveland. For a later round, I see him as a good option.

If you believe you can turn him into an NHLer then sure.

 

[DragoGrizzly]

I don’t think so, based on Wes Clark’s comments and Brad Treliving’s comments, it sounds like they are picking. I think they feel very comfortable with the cluster of players who will be available at 28.

But Wes Clark said this when asked about trading down: “ “Trading down (to get more picks) when you are pretty bare seems like the most sensible move at the time,” Clark said of the Leafs’ first-rounder. “We will see how it shakes out.”
So I’m not certain they don’t see trading down as an option.

 

[horner]

I don’t think so, based on Wes Clark’s comments and Brad Treliving’s comments, it sounds like they are picking. I think they feel very comfortable with the cluster of players who will be available at 28.

That's not what I heard but we will see how it shakes out

 

[Dion TheFluff]

kind of anticipating a trade down, does anybody know what time the 2nd round starts at?