Prospect Info: 2023 HFDevils Prospect Rankings #3

[SteveCangialosi123]

Agreed he is a better skater than someone like Toffoli, but coaches trust a Toffoli because the defensive awareness and work rate is there. A high-end sniper (but without shot volume), with below-average skating, good-but-not-NHL-plus puckskills, below average defensive game and work rate...to me that player type just isn't really going to translate to being a good top-six forward. Although of course the AHL production is encouraging.

I kind of disagree with the bolded though. It's hard to fit Holtz in the lineup because he isn't going to displace any top-six forward, but the Palat - Haula combo is also probably going to be utilized in more difficult defensive deployment/matchups - also not a great place for Holtz.

The exciting thing about the team is just how relentless the lines can be. The 4th line should be pure defensive shutdown line with Nosek-McLeod-Bastian. And then the other lines could be some mix of Timo-Nico-Mercer, Bratt-Hughes-Toffoli. So if Holtz isn’t with Palat and Haula, he’s with some other ultra talented center or wing.

 

[bossram]

I think McLeod and Bastian will get the defensive assignments. The third line is another scoring line, my only concern with Haula and Palat is I don’t know if they have enough play driving ability to get the most out of Holtz.

I think Holtz should be favored for a top six role, and one of the veteran scoring wingers (Bratt, Meier, Mercer, Toffoli) should be on the third line with Haula and Palat.

My preference might be Bratt because of his ability to produce away from Hughes and Hischier, and elevate whoever he plays with

Meier - Hughes - Holtz
Toffoli - Hischier - Mercer
Bratt - Haula - Palat

Bratt can drive a separate line forward, but I do much prefer him and Jack together. They have a very unique chemistry. I've never seen any other combo make as many neutral zone give-and-gos as they have. Someone playing with Jack needs pace in their game, and Holtz doesn't really have that.

Mikey/Bastian/Nosek will get defensive zone assignments, but likely not as much high leverage competition.

The exciting thing about the team is just how relentless the lines can be. The 4th line should be pure defensive shutdown line with Nosek-McLeod-Bastian. And then the other lines could be some mix of Timo-Nico-Mercer, Bratt-Hughes-Toffoli. So if Holtz isn’t with Palat and Haula, he’s with some other ultra talented center or wing.

I like the look of the 4th line and the Devils obviously have a ton of good pieces to move around the lineup.

I'm just skeptical Holtz is up to the NHL pace. Particularly the style that NJ plays. I think Clarke is a better plug-and-play option right now.

 

[Nubmer6]

Ok... we've had 110 votes. I think everyone that's going to vote has done so. I'm shutting down the poll in an hour and moving on to the next.

 

[My3Sons]

Ok... we've had 110 votes. I think everyone that's going to vote has done so. I'm shutting down the poll in an hour and moving on to the next.

Wait, Ben Lovejoy, @Ripshot 43, Eddie Shore, old time hockey!!

 

[JimEIV]

I think it's a little disingenuous to say Holtz has been given a lot of opportunity. He played 9 games in 21-22 and averaged 10 minutes per game at even strength and 2 minutes on the powerplay. Last year he only played 19 games, averaged 8 minutes a game even strength and 1:39 on the powerplay. His most common 5v5 line mates over his career by a wide margin were Boqvist and Sharangovich, neither of which are particularly gifted playmakers. Comparatively he's only played for about 14 minutes with Hughes and Bratt, which is a line that would make a lot of sense for him. He played more minutes with Zacha than he has with Hischier, and spent almost as much time with McLeod (40 minutes) as he did with either of them.

Here are the gaps in days between games he played this year as well as time on ice:
(14:36) 2 days (9:20) 3 days (5:55) 8 days (12:29) 34 days (10:02) 3 days (15:07) 2 days (7:03) 3 days (11:59) 3 days (9:46) 3 days (4:14) 3 days (15:08) 2 days (9:51) 3 days (10:26) 3 days (7:34) 7 days (5:47) 5 days (13:21) 1 day (13:34) 2 days (8:55) 35 days (9:52).
It just wasn't consistent enough playing time for any meaningful progression to occur. He was given a little bit of runway to start the season but by his third game he was only given 6 minutes, then played one game in 42 days, got essentially a 14 game stretch after that but that was the period of the year where the lines were constantly in a blender and his ice time was all over the place. He was played like a 14th forward and got 14th forward results. I'm not saying he deserved more, but his performance last year doesn't push the needle in the wrong direction either.

Meanwhile, he has 32 goals, 62 points in 66 AHL games over those same seasons and 1G, 7A in 11 playoff games. I can buy an argument that Gritsyuk's performance in the KHL is more impressive, but it's not like there's no track record as a pro here. I want to see him actually play regularly before I write him off.

Are you serious? Why do think a player goes 15 minutes, 9 minutes, 5 minutes then out of the lineup for 8 games...."Big meany" coaches? Don't really need a talented goal scorer? Dumb coach?
Come on, be serious.

Those are the receipts of squandered opportunity and playing yourself out of the lineup.

 

[Guttersniped]

I mean, we know why Holtz didn’t between play between 10/25 - 11/21, that was the 13 game win streak.

So Holtz had over a month break between game 4 (10/25) - 5 (11/28).

Ironically Holtz played the first game in the steak and then Boqvist played the next 12. Boqvist was only getting into his 2nd game, Ruff was rotating them before the streak disrupted that.

There were no other changes in the line-up with skaters.

Bahl had an even bigger break between his game 3 (10/24) - game 4 (12/1).

The season was tough on guys trying to break in. The streak meant the line-up didn’t change and pretty soon after the streak the team went into a bit of a swoon.

The only reason Bahl got an extended look was Marino and Graves got injured at the same time. Bahl was very rusty, and playing with Smith didn’t help, which is why Okhotiuk also got an extended look.

But then Brenden Smith got injured and Marino came back, which meant Bahl got to play with Severson, and that’s when he stuck.

So, yeah, opportunities and injuries and line-mates make can make a difference, but that’s life.

 

[Xirik]

Guadana rarely ever overhypes a Russian prospect so if he says Grits then I trust that its the right player to vote for.

 

[AfroThunder396]

IMO Gritsyuk is probably has the highest ceiling of anyone left while clearly being the best player on this list right now today.

Normally I am squeamish about guys drafted out of Europe coming over and signing in North America, but Guadana has really soothed my fears regarding Gritsyuk. I am convinced there's a long term plan and that he's on board with it.

I think he'll be the guy we all thought Gusev was going to be. I genuinely believe that when he comes over he's going to walk on to the 2nd line and immediately be a 60-70 point forward from Day 1. If his name was Robert Johnson and he was playing at University of Minnesota we'd be talking about him the same way we talk about Mercer.

 

[My3Sons]

IMO Gritsyuk is probably has the highest ceiling of anyone left while clearly being the best player on this list right now today.

Normally I am squeamish about guys drafted out of Europe coming over and signing in North America, but Guadana has really soothed my fears regarding Gritsyuk. I am convinced there's a long term plan and that he's on board with it.

I think he'll be the guy we all thought Gusev was going to be. I genuinely believe that when he comes over he's going to walk on to the 2nd line and immediately be a 60-70 point forward from Day 1. If his name was Robert Johnson and he was playing at University of Minnesota we'd be talking about him the same way we talk about Mercer.

No, we'd be asking if he sold his soul to the Devil to learn how to play hockey.

 

[Guadana]

IMO Gritsyuk is probably has the highest ceiling of anyone left while clearly being the best player on this list right now today.

Normally I am squeamish about guys drafted out of Europe coming over and signing in North America, but Guadana has really soothed my fears regarding Gritsyuk. I am convinced there's a long term plan and that he's on board with it.

I think he'll be the guy we all thought Gusev was going to be. I genuinely believe that when he comes over he's going to walk on to the 2nd line and immediately be a 60-70 point forward from Day 1. If his name was Robert Johnson and he was playing at University of Minnesota we'd be talking about him the same way we talk about Mercer.

I would start from ~50 points from now, more over there is a big chance he will start nhl career as third liner(we are stacked in top 6 and I don't know how productive and helpful Haula will be as third line center). From what I saw for now. My opinion could change with the time.
Why he is top 3/4 prospect in the rankings doesn't matter much. Its just opinion of majority that was never corellate with the truth.