HF Habs: 2023 HF Habs Prospect final rankings

[Kudo Shinichi]

That's not high-end.

What's high-end then?
Name me all the high-end prospects (not in the nhl) from the last 3 drafts

For instance in 2008 we had Price, McDonagh, Pacioretty, Subban as our top prospects.

Fowler's stats are more impressive than Carey's as a prospect.
Mailloux is producing at a similar pace as Subban did in his ahl season.
Reinbacher has shown a lot more than McDonagh did at the same age.
Roy's numbers are as good to what Pacioretty did at the same age.

 

[Walksss]

That's not high-end.

For instance in 2008 we had Price, McDonagh, Pacioretty, Subban as our top prospects.

Yeah but you have the benefit of looking back and knowing those players had good careers, you have no idea how Hutson or Mailloux or even an Oliver Kapanen will pan out.

I agree it's a little light on high end talent but we've already graduated Slaf and Guhle, they would make the prospect list pop out much better. I'll disagree on depth though we've never had such a deep prospect pool in the 20 years I've been paying attention, not even close.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

That's not high-end.

For instance in 2008 we had Price, McDonagh, Pacioretty, Subban as our top prospects.

In 2008 they weren’t really considered great prospects, I mean Price certainly was.

But the others had serious question marks, actually. Many didn’t think Subban could ever be anything more than PP specialist, since he was “terrible” defensively. McDo’s offensive ceiling was in question. Pacioretty was seen mostly as a playmaker and there was questions if he could ever score in the NHL.

All those things worked out. But that wasn’t a fact in 2008 and to think it was, is revisionist history.

 

[KevSkillz4]

That's not high-end.

For instance in 2008 we had Price, McDonagh, Pacioretty, Subban as our top prospects.

We have Slaf and Guhle graduate, Slaf is looking better than Pacioretty. Guhle and Reinbacher have similar potential than McDonagh, maybe better. Mailloux can be comparable to Subban. Same stats at same age, but Mailloux have played less games in junior.

 

[Rapala]

I generally take these rankings with a grain of salt.
I like to wait until they actually play some pro games before even hazarding a guess.
Even with Caufield I still had question marks until he continued to ramble in Laval.
Maybe because I've been around longer and have seen sure fire prospects miss.

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

Risible how low Struble was. Looks golden now.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Fowler's stats are more impressive than Carey's as a prospect.
Mailloux is producing at a similar pace as Subban did in his ahl season.
Reinbacher has shown a lot more than McDonagh did at the same age.
Roy's numbers are as good to what Pacioretty did at the same age.

Fowler is not even close to Price and will most likely never reach his level either. Price was drafted 5th overall, WJC MVP and gold medalist at 19 and won the calder cup and playoff MVP in the AHL at the same age. Was ranked the #1 prospect in hockeys future ranking.
Subban vs Mailloux, a bit similar to the situation of Price as Subban was also WJC team of the tournament gold medalist + Played in the playoff and excelled at the end of his first pro season and had a very good first rookie season in the NHL. If Mailloux can do that next year, I would start believing in him. So far edge to Subban

In both cases of McDonagh and Pacioretty I would agree that although they had good college career, few would have expected to break out like they did. So yes if you want put Reinbacher above McDonagh and Pacioretty as similar to Roy.

My point, is more than to not have these crazy expectations for our prospect. The step between a good junior/college prospect to a NHL star player is very steep and very few will ever reach that. I have learned that the hard way by believing prospect hype over the years. Now very few things could make me excited about our prospect at least for now and for the record I am a huge fan of Hutson but I realise that the step from College to the AHL/NHL will be very hard for him. If he become something better than a PP specialist it would be a huge achievement.

At some point I also thought we had future star player in Kostitsyn x 2, Perezhogin, Balej and Hossa, they all have shown flashes they could be good at the pro level but eventually they never ever lived up to their crazy expectations. Since then, I rarely get excited about prospect until they turn pro and perform.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

What's high-end then?
Name me all the high-end prospects (not in the nhl) from the last 3 drafts

Top of my head:
Matvei Michkov, Ryan Leonard, Will Smith, Yaroslav Askarov, Logan Stankoven and my favourite prospect in all hockey: Alexander Nikishin

 

[Treb]

What's high-end then?
Name me all the high-end prospects (not in the nhl) from the last 3 drafts



Fowler's stats are more impressive than Carey's as a prospect.
Mailloux is producing at a similar pace as Subban did in his ahl season.
Reinbacher has shown a lot more than McDonagh did at the same age.
Roy's numbers are as good to what Pacioretty did at the same age.

I think you're going to be dissapointed.

Risible how low Struble was. Looks golden now.

College environment not the best for D like him (a bit like McDonagh was), so his time to shine was this year in the AHL/NHL.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Top of my head:
Matvei Michkov, Ryan Leonard, Will Smith, Yaroslav Askarov, Logan Stankoven and my favourite prospect in all hockey: Alexander Nikishin

So there are only about 6 drafted prospects with high-end talent in the world right now? You mentioned Leonard, but Hutson has produced at a similar rate as a defenseman and he's been a more dominant player in the NCAA.

Fowler is not even close to Price and will most likely never reach his level either. Price was drafted 5th overall, WJC MVP and gold medalist at 19 and won the calder cup and playoff MVP in the AHL at the same age. Was ranked the #1 prospect in hockeys future ranking.

Sure Price was more talented and more hyped, but what Fowler has done is what you would expect from a future elite nhl goalie.

As a rookie goalie in the NCAA, he went 29-5-1, 2.199 GAA, and .925SV%. He's currently one of three finalists for the Mike Richter Award as the top goalie in NCAA hockey. Last year, he was easily the best goalie in the USHL and he backstopped his team to the Clark Cup championship.
All Fowler has done is win and put up elite numbers.

Subban vs Mailloux, a bit similar to the situation of Price as Subban was also WJC team of the tournament gold medalist + Played in the playoff and excelled at the end of his first pro season and had a very good first rookie season in the NHL. If Mailloux can do that next year, I would start believing in him. So far edge to Subban

Why are you bringing up what Subban has done in the nhl? Once he made the nhl, Subban wasn't a prospect anymore...

WJC is a very small sample size, and it happened before they turned pro. So far, what Mailloux is doing in the ahl is the same thing Subban was doing at that age.

In both cases of McDonagh and Pacioretty I would agree that although they had good college career, few would have expected to break out like they did. So yes if you want put Reinbacher above McDonagh and Pacioretty as similar to Roy.

So you're agreeing that Reinbacher > McDonagh and Roy = Pacioretty, and yet you said that the habs don't have high-end prospects, despite listing McDonagh and Patch as high-end prospects in 2008?

My point, is more than to not have these crazy expectations for our prospect. The step between a good junior/college prospect to a NHL star player is very steep and very few will ever reach that. I have learned that the hard way by believing prospect hype over the years. Now very few things could make me excited about our prospect at least for now and for the record I am a huge fan of Hutson but I realise that the step from College to the AHL/NHL will be very hard for him. If he become something better than a PP specialist it would be a huge achievement.

At some point I also thought we had future star player in Kostitsyn x 2, Perezhogin, Balej and Hossa, they all have shown flashes they could be good at the pro level but eventually they never ever lived up to their crazy expectations. Since then, I rarely get excited about prospect until they turn pro and perform.

I don't know why you're talking about expectations and being disappointed. Just because a prospect is considered high end, it doesn't mean they will reach their potential. All it means is that they are very good prospects with high potential. Michkov is an elite prospect. That doesn't mean that Michkov will become a ppg player. Most great prospects don't reach their potential...

Saying Hutson is a high prospect doesn't mean he will become a high-end offensive D. It means he has the talent and pedigree of those who became that.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

So there are only about 6 drafted prospects with high-end talent in the world right now? You mentioned Leonard, but Hutson has produced at a similar rate as a defenseman and he's been a more dominant player in the NCAA.

There are very few high-end prospect indeed, otherwise it defy the purpose of high-end if you start throwing 30 or more names.
On Hutson it is not about production and certainly not about defenseman, Hutson you could categorise in the same category as Corey Locke if you want, amazing point producer with high offensive IQ but significant question mark regarding his skating and his ability to become a top defender in the NHL. As for Leonard, he is way more advanced and I project him as a top 6 power forward in the same silk as the Tkachuk brother but with better skating. When Hutson become a pro, all eyes will be on him on how he can handle the defensive workload. I am rooting for him but to just label him high-end, I am not ready for that unless it's high-end PP operator.

Sure Price was more talented and more hyped, but what Fowler has done is what you would expect from a future elite nhl goalie.

As a rookie goalie in the NCAA, he went 29-5-1, 2.199 GAA, and .925SV%. He's currently one of three finalists for the Mike Richter Award as the top goalie in NCAA hockey. Last year, he was easily the best goalie in the USHL and he backstopped his team to the Clark Cup championship.
All Fowler has done is win and put up elite numbers.

Nothing against Fowler, he is on the right track but go take a look at all the previous goaltenders who had been standout in the NCAA (Devon Levi for instance), very few has become the star goaltender as projected in the NHL. Only name I have in mind if Hellebuyck and his NCAA stats in the same conference as Fowler was quite more impressive.


Why are you bringing up what Subban has done in the nhl? Once he made the nhl, Subban wasn't a prospect anymore...

because somebody(or you), I don't keep track brought the name of Mailloux, if you remember Subban in the AHL, he was the standout player in the AHL and nobody understood why he was not in the NHL. His rookie season in the AHL was significantly better

WJC is a very small sample size, and it happened before they turned pro. So far, what Mailloux is doing in the ahl is the same thing Subban was doing at that age.

Subban was better and way more impressive in his stint in the AHL, I do like Mailoux shot better but Subban was as smooth as you could get with the puck on his stick and he was a difference maker, one of the very few underrated prospect that was drafted by the Habs in my lifetime, maybe you have small memories but he was a fan favorite for a reason when he was called up in the playoff in his first season, his impact was not so dissimilar to Caufield when he was brought from Wisconsin in our cup run. Very unique talent, no wonder he was developed as one of the star player, he just had the 'it' factor in him.

if you want to travel down the memory lane:

So you're agreeing that Reinbacher > McDonagh and Roy = Pacioretty, and yet you said that the habs don't have high-end prospects, despite listing McDonagh and Patch as high-end prospects in 2008?

Wait, what? never claimed that, I said you could make a case of Reinbacher being more advanced as a prospect than McDonagh at the same age (19), I never mentioned high-end for him or Patches. Patches was a weird one, looked great his first season but regressed in his second pro season and eventually took off in his third. If we go by comparable they are quite similar in progress Roy and Pacioretty but the next step from becoming a decent NHL player to a perennial 35+ goalscorer like Pacioretty is significant and I hope Roy is the guy but I certainly hope he is not another flash in the pan like we have seen for so many of our top prospect over the years. Kostitsyn, Galchenyuk, Hossa, Perezhogin or Latendresse.

I don't know why you're talking about expectations and being disappointed. Just because a prospect is considered high end, it doesn't mean they will reach their potential. All it means is that they are very good prospects with high potential. Michkov is an elite prospect. That doesn't mean that Michkov will become a ppg player. Most great prospects don't reach their potential...

Calm your horses, never said all prospect will reach their ultimate potential quite the contrary, I am very bullish on enthusiastic fans that get excited by prospect producing at junior level. Michkov also has a high bust factor and if the habs had selected him I would say the same. He is still a unique talent that does not come often.

Saying Hutson is a high prospect doesn't mean he will become a high-end offensive D. It means he has the talent and pedigree of those who became that.

I think the real test will come when start playing with pro players. Then my view on him will change, for now I consider him a PP specialist with some outside chance of him turning into a regular if put all the work necessary to improve his skating and become stronger physically.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

There are very few high-end prospect indeed, otherwise it defy the purpose of high-end if you start throwing 30 or more names.

If there are only about 6 high end drafted prospects and 26 teams out of 32 don't have one, then why is it an issue that the habs don't have one?
High end prospects are so rare (according to you), so not having one in the prospect pool shouldn't be a problem.
There were 5 players that scored 50+ goals last season. I don't think anyone considers not having a 50 goalscorer on their team a problem. It's a nice thing to have, but not having one isn't an issue.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

If there are only about 6 high end drafted prospects and 26 teams out of 32 don't have one, then why is it an issue that the habs don't have one?
High end prospects are so rare (according to you), so not having one in the prospect pool shouldn't be a problem.
There were 5 players that scored 50+ goals last season. I don't think anyone considers not having a 50 goalscorer on their team a problem. It's a nice thing to have, but not having one isn't an issue.

It's not a problem, it was an observation, I hope the player we selected all become top tier players, for instance one of the best drafting team of the past decade is Dallas and they almost never have any hype on their prospect but many of them have become amazing players. On the other hand, the Avs have drafted top tier player at the top of the draft and these players are driving their team, same can be said about the Leafs. There are no perfect scenarios but if we want to build a solid team we need to have top tier development in the AHL and NHL. I am very bullish on all our prospect because I am well aware that maybe 10% of our current top 20 prospect will play more than 400 games. A lot of habs supporter make their lineup and they have the tendency to include our prospect which is fun and all but in reality only few will be there when we are back at the top. I am very hyped up about Slafkovsky who is looking amazing and I truly think we have a player with Owen Beck who possess all the traits of a pro player but all other habs prospect (including Beck) will have to step up their game when they become pro player. It's all good to have faith but from my own perspective we are not different than we were 15 years ago in term of prospects and look at where we are at now, near the bottom of the league and with no stanley cup, we did reach one NHL final though. I am not the biggest fan of some of our super hyped players like Fowler, Hutson or Reinbacher but I would love nothing more than to be surprised by them when they turn pro. I kind of like Mailloux but he is still very raw in his decision making.

We could just go back maybe 5 years ago and all Habs fans had future lineup including the likes of Kotkaniemi, Poehling, Romanov, Mete, Brook, Juulsen, Primeau, Harris as future Habs players out of these top prospect only 2 remains with the habs and none of that bunch really became a star player.