Speculation: 2023-24 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Cas]

I can't imagine any of them would be willing to come to San Jose.

I'd take Tavares if he came with a 1st, though. No chance that happens, but if Luca Brasi held guns to everyone's heads, I'd be happy to accept that offer.

 

[sampler]

If the sharks could land either of tavares or marner for "free" it would be amazing. To be honest, if the sharks can acquire as many 1 year salary dumps as possible or sign as many top UFAs on overpaid 1 yr deals, it would be a fascinating strategy with tons of upside.

1. Players on to-be-ufa years have extra incentive to be awesome. So if the sharks get several, they might actually compete.... but if not....
2. they will have an army of picks for rental return. Tavares or Marner would be worth at least a 1st or more to any team at the deadline. So getting either as a salary dump would be like trading cap space for picks, and getting a good player too.

imagine getting marchassault for 1 yr 10M, Duchene, 1 yr 7m, Toffoli, 1 yr 7m, Myers, 1 yr 6M, TJ Brodie 1 yr. 7M.

the sharks would quickly hit the near the cap. they'd keep 100% flexibility going forward, add some pretty good players, who might be happy to get overpaid. If they compete well next year, then YAY! if not, what would be haul at the deadline for those 5 guys? Likely a couple 1st and a couple 2nds.

In other words, translate 40M in cap space into a potnetially competitive team at best, and 4+ picks in the top 60, along with the 2 1st rounders and the 2nd you already own. It could realistically put the sharks with 4 first rounders and 3 second rounders next year with that strategy.

 

[Cas]

If the sharks could land either of tavares or marner for "free" it would be amazing. To be honest, if the sharks can acquire as many 1 year salary dumps as possible or sign as many top UFAs on overpaid 1 yr deals, it would be a fascinating strategy with tons of upside.

1. Players on to-be-ufa years have extra incentive to be awesome. So if the sharks get several, they might actually compete.... but if not....
2. they will have an army of picks for rental return. Tavares or Marner would be worth at least a 1st or more to any team at the deadline. So getting either as a salary dump would be like trading cap space for picks, and getting a good player too.

imagine getting marchassault for 1 yr 10M, Duchene, 1 yr 7m, Toffoli, 1 yr 7m, Myers, 1 yr 6M, TJ Brodie 1 yr. 7M.

the sharks would quickly hit the near the cap. they'd keep 100% flexibility going forward, add some pretty good players, who might be happy to get overpaid. If they compete well next year, then YAY! if not, what would be haul at the deadline for those 5 guys? Likely a couple 1st and a couple 2nds.

In other words, translate 40M in cap space into a potnetially competitive team at best, and 4+ picks in the top 60, along with the 2 1st rounders and the 2nd you already own. It could realistically put the sharks with 4 first rounders and 3 second rounders next year with that strategy.

Remember that overpaying guys means they're overpaid when the trade deadline comes around and reduces their market value.

 

[TealManV]

If the sharks could land either of tavares or marner for "free" it would be amazing. To be honest, if the sharks can acquire as many 1 year salary dumps as possible or sign as many top UFAs on overpaid 1 yr deals, it would be a fascinating strategy with tons of upside.

1. Players on to-be-ufa years have extra incentive to be awesome. So if the sharks get several, they might actually compete.... but if not....
2. they will have an army of picks for rental return. Tavares or Marner would be worth at least a 1st or more to any team at the deadline. So getting either as a salary dump would be like trading cap space for picks, and getting a good player too.

imagine getting marchassault for 1 yr 10M, Duchene, 1 yr 7m, Toffoli, 1 yr 7m, Myers, 1 yr 6M, TJ Brodie 1 yr. 7M.

the sharks would quickly hit the near the cap. they'd keep 100% flexibility going forward, add some pretty good players, who might be happy to get overpaid. If they compete well next year, then YAY! if not, what would be haul at the deadline for those 5 guys? Likely a couple 1st and a couple 2nds.

In other words, translate 40M in cap space into a potnetially competitive team at best, and 4+ picks in the top 60, along with the 2 1st rounders and the 2nd you already own. It could realistically put the sharks with 4 first rounders and 3 second rounders next year with that strategy.

There are no open retention spots to flip those big contracts at the TDL.

 

[gaucholoco3]

I would not want to pay any assets for Marner or Tavares but if they are cap dumps for next season it would be worth it for the Sharks even if they can’t be moved at the deadline.

Eklund - Granlund - Zetterlund
Kostin - Celebrini - Marner/Tavares
Musty - Smith - Kunin
Zadina - Sturm - Bailey

That would be a strong forward group and help insulate the young franchise Centers.

Ideally Couture would slot in for Marner/Tavares but there needs to be a back up plan since he is not a guarantee to play.

The Defense would still need an upgrade, but that forward group would be able to carry a lot of the load.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I’d take Tavares if he came for free.

 

[GRANdSharks]

I highly doubt Tavares would waive his no move for san Jose, Marner is a different story but do we really want to spend assets (he won't be free) to get a guy in a walk year, this is often how rebuilds get messed up, id rather just target some vet free agents and see where we are in a year

 

[WSS11]

I can't imagine any of them would be willing to come to San Jose.

I'd take Tavares if he came with a 1st, though. No chance that happens, but if Luca Brasi held guns to everyone's heads, I'd be happy to accept that offer.

I wouldn’t be so sure. The Leafs are in a precarious position where they have an overly pissed off fan base and need to free up cap space in order to bolster their D and G depth. If and a big IF Tavares was willing to waive his NMC and we took his entire 11M cap hit (which is fine since it’s for a year) they might attach their 1st to it. That coupled with the 4M cap increase would be huge for Toronto. Maybe Tavares is ok getting out of that shit storm in Toronto. It would be nice for us because we can slot JT at 1C and bring Macklin and/or Smith along more slowly in a middle 6 role.

 

[cheechoo]

I highly doubt Tavares would waive his no move for san Jose, Marner is a different story but do we really want to spend assets (he won't be free) to get a guy in a walk year, this is often how rebuilds get messed up, id rather just target some vet free agents and see where we are in a year

I'm so fearful of expediting the rebuild and us paying for it down the line.

We're already in midst of the most difficult part of the process. We've torn it down masterfully, and we SUCK. The wisest course of action now is to truly see it through and make sure that we accumulate enough high end assets to compete at a high level for a long time.

And we aren't that far away. My personal timeline is suck some more in '24-'25 (finish bottom 3 again), and begin ascension stage for '25-'26 (even if that entails finishing bottom 10).

Celebrini may end up being the crown jewel of this entire operation but he can't carry the weight of the world on his shoulders.

Along with sniping Keith in the second in 2002 and Seabrook with a mid first in 2003 (and others like Byfuglien/Brouwer/Crawford/Hjalmarsson), the Hawks were in the gutter for four seasons.

2004 - 3rd overall
2005 - 7th overall
2006 - 3rd overall
2007- 1st overall

Penguins

2002 - 5th overall
2003 - 1st overall
2004 - 2nd overall
2005 - 1st overall
2006 - 2nd overall

We aren't that far away, another high pick or two and some late round quality finds and we should have the foundation to carry us all the way to the top of the mountain.

 

[Bizz]

I would not want to pay any assets for Marner or Tavares but if they are cap dumps for next season it would be worth it for the Sharks even if they can’t be moved at the deadline.

Eklund - Granlund - Zetterlund
Kostin - Celebrini - Marner/Tavares
Musty - Smith - Kunin
Zadina - Sturm - Bailey

That would be a strong forward group and help insulate the young franchise Centers.

Ideally Couture would slot in for Marner/Tavares but there needs to be a back up plan since he is not a guarantee to play.

The Defense would still need an upgrade, but that forward group would be able to carry a lot of the load.

I'm pretty sure Zadina isn't gonna be given an extension, he was useless last season and was scratched multiple times.

Borderleau should get a bridge deal and I can see Bystedt and Gushchin making the team out of camp. Musty should get some time on the Sharks at some point as well.

Forward lines next year should look something like this as it stands:

Eklund-Celebrini-Granlund
Kostin-Smith-Zetterlund
Couture/Borderleau-Bystedt-Musty/Gushchin
Bailey-Sturm-Kunin

 

[WSS11]

I'm so fearful of expediting the rebuild and us paying for it down the line.

We're already in midst of the most difficult part of the process. We've torn it down masterfully, and we SUCK. The wisest course of action now is to truly see it through and make sure that we accumulate enough high end assets to compete at a high level for a long time.

And we aren't that far away. My personal timeline is suck some more in '24-'25 (finish bottom 3 again), and begin ascension stage for '25-'26 (even if that entails finishing bottom 10).

Celebrini may end up being the crown jewel of this entire operation but he can't carry the weight of the world on his shoulders.

Along with sniping Keith in the second in 2002 and Seabrook with a mid first in 2003 (and others like Byfuglien/Brouwer/Crawford/Hjalmarsson), the Hawks were in the gutter for four seasons.

2004 - 3rd overall
2005 - 7th overall
2006 - 3rd overall
2007- 1st overall

Penguins

2002 - 5th overall
2003 - 1st overall
2004 - 2nd overall
2005 - 1st overall
2006 - 2nd overall

We aren't that far away, another high pick or two and some late round quality finds and we should have the foundation to carry us all the way to the top of the mountain.

Great post. Nailed it.

 

[ChompChomp]

Eklund-Celebrini-Granlund
Kostin-Smith-Zetterlund
Couture/Borderleau-Bystedt-Musty/Gushchin
Bailey-Sturm-Kunin

Ferraro-Klingberg
Thrun-Pesce/Demelo/Carrier/Hakanpaa/Roy
Muk-Emberson

Blackwood
Vanecek

That would be a fun team to watch in 2024-2025, assuming taking a flyer on Klingberg pays off.

 

[Jargon]

Eklund-Celebrini-Granlund
Kostin-Smith-Zetterlund
Couture/Borderleau-Bystedt-Musty/Gushchin
Bailey-Sturm-Kunin

Ferraro-Klingberg
Thrun-Pesce/Demelo/Carrier/Hakanpaa/Roy
Muk-Emberson

Blackwood
Vanecek

That would be a fun team to watch in 2024-2025, assuming taking a flyer on Klingberg pays off.

I’d let Bystedt bake a little longer and make Granlund either the 1C or the 3C but yeah I like this.

 

[Jargon]

I'm so fearful of expediting the rebuild and us paying for it down the line.

We're already in midst of the most difficult part of the process. We've torn it down masterfully, and we SUCK. The wisest course of action now is to truly see it through and make sure that we accumulate enough high end assets to compete at a high level for a long time.

And we aren't that far away. My personal timeline is suck some more in '24-'25 (finish bottom 3 again), and begin ascension stage for '25-'26 (even if that entails finishing bottom 10).

Celebrini may end up being the crown jewel of this entire operation but he can't carry the weight of the world on his shoulders.

Along with sniping Keith in the second in 2002 and Seabrook with a mid first in 2003 (and others like Byfuglien/Brouwer/Crawford/Hjalmarsson), the Hawks were in the gutter for four seasons.

2004 - 3rd overall
2005 - 7th overall
2006 - 3rd overall
2007- 1st overall

Penguins

2002 - 5th overall
2003 - 1st overall
2004 - 2nd overall
2005 - 1st overall
2006 - 2nd overall

We aren't that far away, another high pick or two and some late round quality finds and we should have the foundation to carry us all the way to the top of the mountain.

I think you’re absolutely right. I think if we’re getting a marquee player (Marner, Tavares, etc) it would have to be because we’re helping a cash-strapped team and getting a 1st or whatever out of it. Grier is doing exceedingly well and I think the main business this off-season is (assuming Celebrini and Smith go pro) making sure we have legit vet guys to help them prosper and not get absolutely shelled. That means a defense that can make a pass sometimes.

I think it’s doable and I think it’ll pay off with a team that’s fun to watch but still bottom 5 in the standings.

The only caveat is if a team has a young D prospect that lost favor (Jiricek?) and they’re willing to prospect swap (Edstrom + or something).

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I wouldn’t be so sure. The Leafs are in a precarious position where they have an overly pissed off fan base and need to free up cap space in order to bolster their D and G depth. If and a big IF Tavares was willing to waive his NMC and we took his entire 11M cap hit (which is fine since it’s for a year) they might attach their 1st to it. That coupled with the 4M cap increase would be huge for Toronto. Maybe Tavares is ok getting out of that shit storm in Toronto. It would be nice for us because we can slot JT at 1C and bring Macklin and/or Smith along more slowly in a middle 6 role.

If they're in that precarious a position then why not sell them on keeping their 1st, taking back Vlasic, and letting them buy him out? They save a little over 7 mil in cap savings while keeping an asset they can use to make their team better in the trade market.

 

[Hodge]

Nothing will happen in Toronto. The players hold all the cards.

 

[WSS11]

If they're in that precarious a position then why not sell them on keeping their 1st, taking back Vlasic, and letting them buy him out? They save a little over 7 mil in cap savings while keeping an asset they can use to make their team better in the trade market.

Because I think:

A. The main incentive for the Sharks in doing this would be to add another 1st rather than dealing Vlasic. To me, unless Vlasic is a detriment to the locker room there is no need for the sharks to unload him because of the minimal amount of term left on his deal. Also, would Vlasic waive his M-NTC to be bought out? It’s another hurdle.

B. The Leafs would probably prioritize maximizing cap space when moving Tavares. SJ can take his contract on with no retention without issue.

Again, it’s very unlikely Tavares waives for SJ but I think the premise makes sense. Maybe moving Marner for additional assets is their move. Either way, that club is due for a big shake up.

 

[Cas]

Also, would Vlasic waive his M-NTC to be bought out?

Why would Vlasic need to waive anything to be bought out? We just buy him out, he doesn't get a choice.

Players with NMC's can refuse to go to waivers and be bought out instantly, but that doesn't prevent the buyout. Vlasic doesn't have one anymore, so it's irrelevant.

 

[WSS11]

Why would Vlasic need to waive anything to be bought out? We just buy him out, he doesn't get a choice.

Players with NMC's can refuse to go to waivers and be bought out instantly, but that doesn't prevent the buyout. Vlasic doesn't have one anymore, so it's irrelevant.

PF didn’t say anything about SJ buying him out. He said trade him to Toronto so they could buy him out.

 

[Cas]

PF didn’t say anything about SJ buying him out. He said trade him to Toronto so they could buy him out.

Ah, missed that part.

 

[sharski]

hard pass on Tavares after he breadcrumbed the sharks hard af as a UFA

would be down for San Ramon's prodigal son to come home though

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Because I think:

A. The main incentive for the Sharks in doing this would be to add another 1st rather than dealing Vlasic. To me, unless Vlasic is a detriment to the locker room there is no need for the sharks to unload him because of the minimal amount of term left on his deal. Also, would Vlasic waive his M-NTC to be bought out? It’s another hurdle.

B. The Leafs would probably prioritize maximizing cap space when moving Tavares. SJ can take his contract on with no retention without issue.

Again, it’s very unlikely Tavares waives for SJ but I think the premise makes sense. Maybe moving Marner for additional assets is their move. Either way, that club is due for a big shake up.

That could be the main incentive for us but it's not entirely necessary. Getting out of Vlasic's contract a year earlier and a buyout is a pretty big win for us whether we get anything for Tavares at the deadline or not. Getting 7 mil in cap space w/o having to spend anything is a pretty big win for Toronto too. That 1st round pick may be their only meaningful asset to try and trade for someone who would help them at a better rate. The other thing is that if that 1st round pick is our main incentive, it's not enough for 11 mil. A 1st round pick in this day and age should be valued at maybe 7.5-8 mil with the rising cap. I don't think just giving away 3 mil in cap value is a good idea even if it is just for one year.

I think the Vlasic NTC concern is as valid as the Tavares NMC one. With Celebrini in the fold, I'd like to get rid of Vlasic this offseason one way or another. If a team is offering a way out of the buyout on a one year rental, I'd certainly listen.

 

[Coily]

What's the rush on getting rid of Vlasic a year or two early? Just a locker room thing? His contract doesn't seem to matter given the end date.

BTW, I'm in no way on Vlasic's side and would love him to disappear.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

What's the rush on getting rid of Vlasic a year or two early? Just a locker room thing? His contract doesn't seem to matter given the end date.

BTW, I'm in no way on Vlasic's side and would love him to disappear.

No rush but if an opportunity is available to get out of an extra year and open a lineup spot they need anyway, they should listen. A Tavares-like trade makes sense in that regard but obviously not very likely with movement protections at play. I doubt there's anything like that out there but anyway to make the team better next season is something to be open to.

 

[Coily]

No rush but if an opportunity is available to get out of an extra year and open a lineup spot they need anyway, they should listen. A Tavares-like trade makes sense in that regard but obviously not very likely with movement protections at play. I doubt there's anything like that out there but anyway to make the team better next season is something to be open to.

I see, I interpreted the idea wrong and thought it was more of moving Vlasic than upgrading with Tavares.