GDT: 2023-24 season game 67 LA Kings vs Dallas Stars @5:00pm 3/16/24

[tny760]

This is the team that Axl and his cronies/types wanted. Not the rebuilding losing Hawks type team that is aiming for franchise altering players in the draft while developing their prospects / young players.

Nope. It's an average (at time slightly better than average) who gets points against those bottom feeder teams and will get into the playoffs and lose in the first round. While being headlined by name brand former greats who will one day be in the HOF as Kings. Against the top SC contending teams, they are way overmatched -- but that's not the goal. It's get into the playoffs. That's a successful season. Win maybe 1-2 games in that first round....maybe if they get crazy lucky they can somehow win a round on occasion.

Good job Bluc!

and all the normies on twitter just go wooo! we made the playoffs! and no one in the media questions it

 

[kingsfan28]

I would be surprised if someone on here thought Hiller is going to be head coach after this season

Nope, that spot is already in reserve when the Pens coach gets fired at the end of the season.

 

[kingsfan28]

On top of that, San Jose and the ducks both have their rebuilds in motion. Could be pretty painful in a couple years.

The Ducks have been rebuilding for almost 7 years now, yet they find themselves in the same spot again. And they play their kids too, including sheltering one with a " season management program" . It's going to be 3-4 years before they get a whiff the playoffs at best.

 

[LAKings88]

The Ducks have been rebuilding for almost 7 years now, yet they find themselves in the same spot again. And they play their kids too, including sheltering one with a " season management program" . It's going to be 3-4 years before they get a whiff the playoffs at best.

They have Cutter coming and yet another low pick. Trade Zegras for a need and they will get there sooner than later.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

They have Cutter coming and yet another low pick. Trade Zegras for a need and they will get there sooner than later.

Yep, just gotta follow Ottawa and Buffalo's leads, they will get there....

Not sure why we are assuming that the Ducks rebuild is gonna be "different"

 

[King'sPawn]

Yep, just gotta follow Ottawa and Buffalo's leads, they will get there....

Not sure why we are assuming that the Ducks rebuild is gonna be "different"

It's just as reasonable to think they'll improve, as the Ducks have good pieces. Comparing their rebuild to Ottawa or Buffalo is as much as an assumption.

Though I think the Ducks have more budget constraints, which of course could affect their decisions going forward.

Without trying to go through a rebuild in any capacity though, the Kings wouldn't have the second overall pick to land Byfield. How comfortable would we be with the team without him going forward?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

It's just as reasonable to think they'll improve, as the Ducks have good pieces. Comparing their rebuild to Ottawa or Buffalo is as much as an assumption.

Though I think the Ducks have more budget constraints, which of course could affect their decisions going forward.

Without trying to go through a rebuild in any capacity though, the Kings wouldn't have the second overall pick to land Byfield. How comfortable would we be with the team without him going forward?

100%, but the reality is most rebuilds don't work, they get close....don't win, fire the GM/coach, and start again, etc.

 

[YAYSAY]

Yep, just gotta follow Ottawa and Buffalo's leads, they will get there....

Not sure why we are assuming that the Ducks rebuild is gonna be "different"

What exactly is the solution if not to rebuild? You say the reality is that most rebuilds don't work, that's true because only 1 team can win the cup every year, but looking at many of the previous cup winners they got a lot of their core pieces through a rebuild. Avs are the powerhouse now, but just a few years ago they were one of the worst teams in the league and a laughingstock. Iirc they picked Makar after that infamous season. Were you also saying at the time "why are we assuming that the Avs rebuild is gonna be 'different'"?

Kings are just in a really weird spot, they went through a rebuild (whether they ended it too early is another topic) and got some good pieces, some of those pieces were imo shipped out too early and for players that don't move the needle much. All this done to support Kopi and Doughty who are still this teams' leaders, but now Kopi looks slow this season, and Doughty is playing great, but it's another season where he's tacking on miles and yet the team isn't any better than they were last year after the huge acquisition to get PLD. So next year, another year older for Kopi and Doughty, they don't have a lot of wiggle room to bring in any pieces to fill the gaps and yet they're also more desperate due to Kopi and Doughty being older, so are they gonna let a veteran in Roy walk? Are they gonna let a risky player like Clarke play more? Are they gonna give Byfield the 1C spot? Imo there's just too many unknowns and questions for a team that thought they were gonna compete for a stanley cup this season

 

[All The Kings Men]

Has the Ducks rebuild done anything to address goaltending and defense and depth?

Did Edmonton, Buffalo, Ottawa etc etc etc?

Were there common threads in the rebuilding history of the Blackhawks, Penguins and Kings during their 2000-2010 rebuilds? Is there a reason St. Louis was considered on par with those other teams but somehow just never managed to turn into anything until that one miracle year from an unexpected player in the blue paint?

 

[King'sPawn]

100%, but the reality is most rebuilds don't work, they get close....don't win, fire the GM/coach, and start again, etc.

Depends how we're defining not working. Are we talking about making the playoffs? There are quite a few teams which show otherwise, like Colorado, Pittsburgh, Chicago (mid 2000s), and Edmonton are the most notable examples recently.

What are some teams you think are doing it right? I can only think of Boston who hasn't gone through a major rebuild in quite a while. I would say that's rarer than a successful rebuild.

Even when the Kings kept going for it after their cup win, they missed the playoffs in 2015, 2017, 2019 (when they decided in December they needed to start selling).

So, if you don't think most rebuilds work, what is your more reliable team building formula that will lead to your definition of success? Not trying to sound combative. I'm genuinely curious.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Depends how we're defining not working. Are we talking about making the playoffs? There are quite a few teams which show otherwise, like Colorado, Pittsburgh, Chicago (mid 2000s), and Edmonton are the most notable examples recently.

What are some teams you think are doing it right? I can only think of Boston who hasn't gone through a major rebuild in quite a while. I would say that's rarer than a successful rebuild.

Even when the Kings kept going for it after their cup win, they missed the playoffs in 2015, 2017, 2019 (when they decided in December they needed to start selling).

So, if you don't think most rebuilds work, what is your more reliable team building formula that will lead to your definition of success? Not trying to sound combative. I'm genuinely curious.

No, I get it, short version here cuz work,

I think what LA is doing, what BOS is doing, works, if you make the right decisions, I'm not sold on PLD being the right decision, even though I understand the long term thinking of it, not sure I agree on it, I think Clarke needs to be playing, let him figure it it out like you did with Byfield, that's your next Kopitar/Doughty.....then you piece everything in, PLD is the right age, Fiala is the right age, Moore is the right age, you work in guys like Laf/Turcotte etc,

The infite rebuild ala Edmonton, who had what 7 1st OA's in 10 years (exaggerated a bit) never works, you at some point have to get out of that cycle,

 

[King'sPawn]

No, I get it, short version here cuz work,

I think what LA is doing, what BOS is doing, works, if you make the right decisions, I'm not sold on PLD being the right decision, even though I understand the long term thinking of it, not sure I agree on it, I think Clarke needs to be playing, let him figure it it out like you did with Byfield, that's your next Kopitar/Doughty.....then you piece everything in, PLD is the right age, Fiala is the right age, Moore is the right age, you work in guys like Laf/Turcotte etc,

The infite rebuild ala Edmonton, who had what 7 1st OA's in 10 years (exaggerated a bit) never works, you at some point have to get out of that cycle,

Can't this same caveat be applied to rebuilds though? Nobody has said an infinite rebuild works. But the right decision of when to come out of it and how you support your futures is critical for any org.

If you prefer giving yourself more time for work, feel free to take your time. But I think there has been a misunderstanding for what kind of rebuild people are calling for and why.

 

[LAKings88]

The Ducks are just now seeing pieces step in and take roles.

Zegras is what he is, who knows if he stays.
MacTavish
Carlsson
C. Guether
Zellweger (def)
Mintyukov (def)
Laneau (def)
Dostal (goalie)
Top ten pick in 24

That is a decent prospect group. Verbeek also wants them to play the "right" way.

Lot of disengenous Kings fans in here poo pooing the Ducks.

It might take a year or two but the Ducks could be giving LA fits.

LA are currently a blackhole team. Kopi is gone in two years. Can't afford to resign their UFAs as is.

Kings need to hope cap is freed up and they can make a trade or sign a ufa or two.

Kings are picking late teens early 20's likely. At least they kept their first but that prospect is likely four years out.

What stand outs does LA have coming aside from Clarke and a hope and prayer that Turcotte can fill in for fourth line center?

I'm no fortune teller but the pacific isn't getting any easier anytime soon. Kings are fighting tooth and nail as is to likely end up in a wildcard spot.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Can't this same caveat be applied to rebuilds though? Nobody has said an infinite rebuild works. But the right decision of when to come out of it and how you support your futures is critical for any org.

If you prefer giving yourself more time for work, feel free to take your time. But I think there has been a misunderstanding for what kind of rebuild people are calling for and why.

Yea, will respond a bit later, I mean, right decisions....pretty much should be the default for anyone right? So I think I jumped it when I said that, will explain better/more in depth when I can,

 

[LAKings88]

Has the Ducks rebuild done anything to address goaltending and defense and depth?

Did Edmonton, Buffalo, Ottawa etc etc etc?

Were there common threads in the rebuilding history of the Blackhawks, Penguins and Kings during their 2000-2010 rebuilds? Is there a reason St. Louis was considered on par with those other teams but somehow just never managed to turn into anything until that one miracle year from an unexpected player in the blue paint?

Edmonton and Buffalo both had runs of 1st overall picks. The Oilers currently seem to be many pundits favorites largely on the back of McDavid.

Neither have born fruit but they are still in season no? Time will tell.

Have they built from goalie out in Edm, nope. Campbell was a huge fail. Nurse was the wrong guy to pay out. They are all in on outscore your opponent hockey. Paper tiger in my eyes but thats why you play the games.

Buffalo, is a perpetual rebuild team but they smoke the Kings almost every game. Talent and skill is definitly there. Fast, young, but missing consistent goaltending.

The Ducks have the young horses coming on defense. Probably a better prospect than LA in goal. Their rebuild is in process not complete. Trade Zegras and Gibson in the offseason and they could be that much closer depending on returns.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Edmonton and Buffalo both had runs of 1st overall picks. The Oilers currently seem to be many pundits favorites largely on the back of McDavid.

Neither have born fruit but they are still in season no? Time will tell.

Have they built from goalie out in Edm, nope. Campbell was a huge fail. Nurse was the wrong guy to pay out. They are all in on outscore your opponent hockey. Paper tiger in my eyes but thats why you play the games.

Buffalo, is a perpetual rebuild team but they smoke the Kings almost every game. Talent and skill is definitly there. Fast, young, but missing consistent goaltending.

The Ducks have the young horses coming on defense. Probably a better prospect than LA in goal. Their rebuild is in process not complete. Trade Zegras and Gibson in the offseason and they could be that much closer depending on returns.

@King'sPawn hence right decisions....right? the bolded...like I said, get your point....but IF the Ducks make a move like that, they are choosing not to be in perpetual rebuild,

EDM,BUF,DET,OTT, have all been in perpetual rebuild and it hasn't worked, they've never made the conscious choice to end it, LA did make that choice, was it the right time? Debatable, they are still missing a netminder....but lately teams are showing you can go pick one up as a mercenary than draft/develop

 

[Herby]

Yep, just gotta follow Ottawa and Buffalo's leads, they will get there....

Not sure why we are assuming that the Ducks rebuild is gonna be "different"

You bring up situations that didn't work (while never acknowledging the times that it did work to build winners), to defend a type of build that has never worked anywhere before to build a sustained winner.

The upside to a traditional rebuild is having a perennial Stanley Cup contender, while the downside is picking at the top of the draft. The upside to a black hole rebuild is maybe winning a playoff series, while the downside is picking 12-20 in the draft.

It's just mind boggling to me, how someone who has been a long-time fan of this team would want to return to the days of the 1997-2002 Kings and not attempt to have a few 07/08 type seasons to accumulate the talent needed to have 2012 or 2014 seasons.

But hey, your ideological ally once said on this forum that he'd rather lose in Round 1 than pick 1st overall, so I guess it's not all that surprising.

 

[King'sPawn]

@King'sPawn hence right decisions....right? the bolded...like I said, get your point....but IF the Ducks make a move like that, they are choosing not to be in perpetual rebuild,

EDM,BUF,DET,OTT, have all been in perpetual rebuild and it hasn't worked, they've never made the conscious choice to end it, LA did make that choice, was it the right time? Debatable, they are still missing a netminder....but lately teams are showing you can go pick one up as a mercenary than draft/develop

I agree, but I think you misunderstand what most have called for. Which I get - a lot of people (myself included) have screamed angrily about decisions where it's hard to navigate.

A lot of us have said the Kings exited their rebuild too soon. Not that they should keep rebuilding until they get a Crosby/McDavid to lead them to the promised land. I know SOME call for that, but most reasonable people don't.

In my opinion, they should have waited until Byfield, Clarke, Vilardi, etc stepped into bigger roles before exiting the rebuild. Byfield was still playing in the bottom 6 when they decided to exit the rebuild. You see the Ducks would be doing so after MacTavish and Carlsson have already been key cogs in the top 6.

With Byfield being a top forward, this season would have been a great discussion point talking about exiting the rebuild. I think we'd all like to see more from Clarke over a full season, and Portillo would need some games. But at least there are solid future pieces where exiting the rebuild would have been a very good time.

 

[YAYSAY]

@King'sPawn hence right decisions....right? the bolded...like I said, get your point....but IF the Ducks make a move like that, they are choosing not to be in perpetual rebuild,

EDM,BUF,DET,OTT, have all been in perpetual rebuild and it hasn't worked, they've never made the conscious choice to end it, LA did make that choice, was it the right time? Debatable, they are still missing a netminder....but lately teams are showing you can go pick one up as a mercenary than draft/develop

I don't think EDM can really be put in that group anymore, they made the WCF and have beaten the Kings two years in a row. They did a rebuild and are now contending, will it work? Who knows, but if they lose it's not like you can point and laugh at a failed rebuild when 31 other teams also failed, and they've still been further than the Kings have since 2014.
And we're acting like Kings are leagues above Buffalo and Detroit, Kings have 2 more wins than Buffalo. They're where they are because of OTL points, and those points weren't gained from clawing back, the majority of them were gained from collapsing and letting a team back in the game.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I don't think EDM can really be put in that group anymore, they made the WCF and have beaten the Kings two years in a row. They did a rebuild and are now contending, will it work? Who knows, but if they lose it's not like you can point and laugh at a failed rebuild when 31 other teams also failed, and they've still been further than the Kings have since 2014.
And we're acting like Kings are leagues above Buffalo and Detroit, Kings have 2 more wins than Buffalo. They're where they are because of OTL points, and those points weren't gained from clawing back, the majority of them were gained from collapsing and letting a team back in the game.

Absolutely you can put EDM on that list, one WCF in what 20 years of rebuilding? Yea, they go on that list.

As far as Kings being above Buffalo and Detroit, they are, it's close....sure, but Buffalo has been rebuilding for what, 15 years now? Detroit since they lost Datsyuk......both teams have absolute choice pieces no doubt.....but there's not a team in the league that doesn't have a choice piece or two.

 

[KINGS17]

Blake is available if he/she wants to learn checkers

Luc is the guy for tiddly winks!

 

[YAYSAY]

Absolutely you can put EDM on that list, one WCF in what 20 years of rebuilding? Yea, they go on that list.

As far as Kings being above Buffalo and Detroit, they are, it's close....sure, but Buffalo has been rebuilding for what, 15 years now? Detroit since they lost Datsyuk......both teams have absolute choice pieces no doubt.....but there's not a team in the league that doesn't have a choice piece or two.

You're saying EDM is perpetually rebuilding, they literally aren't anymore. There needs to be a distinction between perpetually rebuilding and simply not winning and not being good. And there needs to be a way to quantify the success of a rebuild beyond winning the cup. I think Buffalo tried to exit their rebuild a few times within those 15 years and simply realized that they just weren't good enough.
No one wants to be perpetually rebuilding, and no one wants to be a black hole team, fact is the most tried and true method for being a good team is to draft and develop home grown players which are acquired through a draft. Statistically, the best players statically are taken in the earlier rounds, the teams that usually get to pick those players are one's that are in a rebuild. I think Kings exited the rebuild a bit too early and are now in no man's land.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

You're saying EDM is perpetually rebuilding, they literally aren't anymore. There needs to be a distinction between perpetually rebuilding and simply not winning and not being good. And there needs to be a way to quantify the success of a rebuild beyond winning the cup. I think Buffalo tried to exit their rebuild a few times within those 15 years and simply realized that they just weren't good enough.
No one wants to be perpetually rebuilding, and no one wants to be a black hole team, fact is the most tried and true method for being a good team is to draft and develop home grown players which are acquired through a draft. Statistically, the best players statically are taken in the earlier rounds, the teams that usually get to pick those players are one's that are in a rebuild. I think Kings exited the rebuild a bit too early and are now in no man's land.

Ok, I get what you are saying, I can agree EDM isn't anymore, and they absolutely miserably failed....3 x over.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The Ducks are just now seeing pieces step in and take roles.

Zegras is what he is, who knows if he stays.
MacTavish
Carlsson
C. Guether
Zellweger (def)
Mintyukov (def)
Laneau (def)
Dostal (goalie)
Top ten pick in 24

That is a decent prospect group. Verbeek also wants them to play the "right" way.

Lot of disengenous Kings fans in here poo pooing the Ducks.

It might take a year or two but the Ducks could be giving LA fits.

LA are currently a blackhole team. Kopi is gone in two years. Can't afford to resign their UFAs as is.

Kings need to hope cap is freed up and they can make a trade or sign a ufa or two.

Kings are picking late teens early 20's likely. At least they kept their first but that prospect is likely four years out.

What stand outs does LA have coming aside from Clarke and a hope and prayer that Turcotte can fill in for fourth line center?

I'm no fortune teller but the pacific isn't getting any easier anytime soon. Kings are fighting tooth and nail as is to likely end up in a wildcard spot.

Without even comparing to other teams...this is the biggest problem LA has now via exiting the rebuild early.

Instead of having young, contributing cost controlled youth, we're getting older, worse, and more expensive by the day, and the only 'help on the way' is Clarke and Turcotte, the rest are likely supporting players but no Byfields.

If they wouldn't have accelerated, you could still have Vilardi, Faber, Durzi, Kupari, Bjornfot etc. OR the younger assets they turned into rather than older and bad choices and the sad thing is we're STILL likely to lose pieces in Kaliyev Fagemo and all the waiver eligible kids simply because these guys suck ass at evaluating and deploying.

They could be turning this over to a younger leadership group right this minute while still getting some high picks, but instead they'd rather run their kids into a wall until they're depreciated and waiver eligible, rinse them for pennies on the dollar, and get steadily worse.

And I say this as a guy who had ZERO problem with Danault/Arvy acquisitions so I'm not exactly team "all 20s"

 

[BaileyFan]

Edmonton and Buffalo both had runs of 1st overall picks. The Oilers currently seem to be many pundits favorites largely on the back of McDavid.

Neither have born fruit but they are still in season no? Time will tell.

Have they built from goalie out in Edm, nope. Campbell was a huge fail. Nurse was the wrong guy to pay out. They are all in on outscore your opponent hockey. Paper tiger in my eyes but thats why you play the games.

Buffalo, is a perpetual rebuild team but they smoke the Kings almost every game. Talent and skill is definitly there. Fast, young, but missing consistent goaltending.

The Ducks have the young horses coming on defense. Probably a better prospect than LA in goal. Their rebuild is in process not complete. Trade Zegras and Gibson in the offseason and they could be that much closer depending on returns.

It’s not even fun clowning the Ducks and their fans because as terrible as they are, it’s a decent bet that they’ll be a legit contender before us at this moment.