Speculation: 2023-2024 General Lightning Discussion - Part 3

[Lightning1995]

I’m fine with trying Duclair on the first line. But Stammer with Cirelli simply doesn’t work. Cirelli will get the tough assignments that simply don’t work for Stammer. Problem is they don’t work for Duclair either. So I dunno

 

[Stammertime91]

I’m fine with trying Duclair on the first line. But Stammer with Cirelli simply doesn’t work. Cirelli will get the tough assignments that simply don’t work for Stammer. Problem is they don’t work for Duclair either. So I dunno

There's always what @Master P put together but swap Paul for Cirelli. Duclair is interesting because I think Kucherov can make him a productive player here. It frees up Hagel and maybe you see what works with Cirelli/Hagel and put Stammer wherever until the end of the season. Sucks but until he doesn't look like a 55 year old beer leaguer, there's no reason to "try to get him going" like Coop attempts to do when he can't win a battle, falls down, misses the net, etc.

 

[Lightning1995]

There's always what @Master P put together but swap Paul for Cirelli. Duclair is interesting because I think Kucherov can make him a productive player here. It frees up Hagel and maybe you see what works with Cirelli/Hagel and put Stammer wherever until the end of the season. Sucks but until he doesn't look like a 55 year old beer leaguer, there's no reason to "try to get him going" like Coop attempts to do when he can't win a battle, falls down, misses the net, etc.

If the plan is to make Stammer 3C, then I’m down. I seriously doubt that though

 

[Zwui21]

There's always what @Master P put together but swap Paul for Cirelli. Duclair is interesting because I think Kucherov can make him a productive player here. It frees up Hagel and maybe you see what works with Cirelli/Hagel and put Stammer wherever until the end of the season. Sucks but until he doesn't look like a 55 year old beer leaguer, there's no reason to "try to get him going" like Coop attempts to do when he can't win a battle, falls down, misses the net, etc.

The more I've watched Stammer play this season, the lower I'd be okay to sign him this offseason. We are at the point where anything over 4M seems like it's gonna be a bad contract from the start, if this is the (steep) aging curve his level of play has taken.
I know it sounds ridiculous to think Stammer signing for 4M AAV, but if we want to get back at being competitive overpaying him is a non starter.

 

[Lightning1995]

The more I've watched Stammer play this season, the lower I'd be okay to sign him this offseason. We are at the point where anything over 4M seems like it's gonna be a bad contract from the start, if this is the (steep) aging curve his level of play has taken.
I know it sounds ridiculous to think Stammer signing for 4M AAV, but if we want to get back at being competitive overpaying him is a non starter.

I completely agree. Stammer doesn’t give us much 5v5

 

[FinnLightning26]

The more I've watched Stammer play this season, the lower I'd be okay to sign him this offseason. We are at the point where anything over 4M seems like it's gonna be a bad contract from the start, if this is the (steep) aging curve his level of play has taken.
I know it sounds ridiculous to think Stammer signing for 4M AAV, but if we want to get back at being competitive overpaying him is a non starter.

I'm completely fine moving on from him if he costs 6M+. His scoring doesn't compensate for his absolute dog shit defensive play and constant turnovers. He's an opposite Cirelli you could say where his defense doesn't compensate for the lack of offense.

 

[Outl4w]

The team is losing and barely contending to beat bottom feeders in OT.
We should Listen to offers to anyone not named Kucherov, Hagel, Point, Hedman.
Sheary had a 2 point night. Trade him for anything
Motte and Glenndenning should at least draw interest for late picks.
Trade De Hann for anything you can get. He isn't the worse but we got a surplus of bottom 6 to ahl defenseman.
If we get any decent offers for Sergachev, Cernak, Cirelli, Stamkos, or Vasi we should consider it.
If Crosby is open to moving on and being Traded so should Stamkos if he wont sign a 3 x 5 million contract.
We need to gain as many picks we can.
Duclair was a decent pick up for a 3rd, but not sure why we are taking on playrs not signed for next year.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

So we miss the playoffs or out in 5, then I'm expecting at least one of Sergachev, Cernak, Cirelli to be traded at the draft.

BriseBois, even when he's made good trades, has mostly overpaid. Hagel was a great addition but gave up 1 too many 1sts.

 

[Point21]

Lord of the Lightning

 

[TampaBoltz]

Which is a better name for our defense…
1. The Glass Factory
2. Backend Tissue.

???

 

[These Are The Days]

"Why would we add, we're not making the playoffs"

Now.

"Why didn't JBB go out and sign guys?"

After last night I trust JFBB even more. If that was even possible. Hanifin by himself wasn't fixing this

 

[HoseEmDown]

The Thompson trade has reinforced my thoughts that the game has passed Cooper. Guys like Hughes, Fox and Makar are stars and the league as a whole is going to skill over size. Yet Cooper is a size queen and has to have all his defenseman 6'2 or taller.

I still like physical play and think it's an important part of a team, it's why I don't have any issues with Jeannot. But I think you still need to put the most skill out and Thompson has more than most of our defenseman. To me it seems there's a disconnect between the GM and coach because BriseBois isn't drafting how Cooper plays.

 

[Rschmitz]

The Thompson trade has reinforced my thoughts that the game has passed Cooper. Guys like Hughes, Fox and Makar are stars and the league as a whole is going to skill over size. Yet Cooper is a size queen and has to have all his defenseman 6'2 or taller.

I still like physical play and think it's an important part of a team, it's why I don't have any issues with Jeannot. But I think you still need to put the most skill out and Thompson has more than most of our defenseman. To me it seems there's a disconnect between the GM and coach because BriseBois isn't drafting how Cooper plays.

Height on D has been a fetish of this organization for like two decades now. It can't be just Cooper, we haven't had a defenseman under 6 ft in forever.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Height on D has been a fetish of this organization for like two decades now. It can't be just Cooper, we haven't had a defenseman under 6 ft in forever.

We have but they have to have a B name. Boyle, Bergeron and Barberio.

 

[DFC]

After last night I trust JFBB even more. If that was even possible. Hanifin by himself wasn't fixing this

lol

 

[Hockeyville USA]

The Thompson trade has reinforced my thoughts that the game has passed Cooper. Guys like Hughes, Fox and Makar are stars and the league as a whole is going to skill over size. Yet Cooper is a size queen and has to have all his defenseman 6'2 or taller.

I still like physical play and think it's an important part of a team, it's why I don't have any issues with Jeannot. But I think you still need to put the most skill out and Thompson has more than most of our defenseman. To me it seems there's a disconnect between the GM and coach because BriseBois isn't drafting how Cooper plays.

Regular season defense is not equivalent to playoff defense. Regular season hockey is a track meet, playoff hockey is Iowa football: much grittier, physical, defensive, guys actually care.

You can win the Avalanche/Penguins way with less physicality, but only if you dominate puck possession, have great depth scoring, and above average goaltending, plus your elite stars. Teams like the Blackhawks, Lightning, and old school Red Wings had elite players and depth players who played with a bite/edge. The Kings, 2023 Golden Knights, 2011 Bruins, 2019 Blues honestly didn't have that many elite players, but they had guys who were willing to play with football mentality, play actual defense, timely scoring, and good to very good goaltending.

But yes, Cooper is stubborn.

 

[These Are The Days]

lol

I'm a f***ing mess dude. I want us to blow this team sky high but I still think it has potential


I need a drink

 

[DFC]

The Thompson trade has reinforced my thoughts that the game has passed Cooper. Guys like Hughes, Fox and Makar are stars and the league as a whole is going to skill over size. Yet Cooper is a size queen and has to have all his defenseman 6'2 or taller.

I still like physical play and think it's an important part of a team, it's why I don't have any issues with Jeannot. But I think you still need to put the most skill out and Thompson has more than most of our defenseman. To me it seems there's a disconnect between the GM and coach because BriseBois isn't drafting how Cooper plays.

I know Yzerman had a thing for big defensemen too. IMO, it really depends on the defenseman and their role. We have a couple of guys who can contribute offensively, so, when it comes to guys trying to hold down the fort, I don't blame Cooper, or JBB, for looking for size. They tend to be, at the very least, tougher to play against.

I find we are drafting bigger players now, and moving away from smaller, skilled guys in general. To me this is a mistake because it's easier to add grit than skill down the line, and it's easier to teach a skilled player to have grit (which we have done a few times) than to teach a gritty player to have skill.

Regular season defense is not equivalent to playoff defense. Regular season hockey is a track meet, playoff hockey is Iowa football: much grittier, physical, defensive, guys actually care.

You can win the Avalanche/Penguins way with less physicality, but only if you dominate puck possession, have great depth scoring, and above average goaltending, plus your elite stars. Teams like the Blackhawks, Lightning, and old school Red Wings had elite players and depth players who played with a bite/edge. The Kings, 2023 Golden Knights, 2011 Bruins, 2019 Blues honestly didn't have that many elite players, but they had guys who were willing to play with football mentality, play actual defense, timely scoring, and good to very good goaltending.

But yes, Cooper is stubborn.

IMO, Colorado's defense in 2022 was very underrated. They were shutting teams down when they needed to. When we won in 2020, everyone was talking about the offense, but really we won by shutting teams down and scoring when we needed to. I feel like Colorado shut teams down but weren't actively trying to win 1-0 every night the way we were.

 

[Zwui21]

So we miss the playoffs or out in 5, then I'm expecting at least one of Sergachev, Cernak, Cirelli to be traded at the draft.

BriseBois, even when he's made good trades, has mostly overpaid. Hagel was a great addition but gave up 1 too many 1sts.

I think there's a worrying trend with JBB.
He started out by overpaying players that were not on the market, so he had to convince the other GM to give in with great offers. And that's fine because he went out targeting good players with low cap hits and still with term. But what I thought was overpaying for unavailable player is turning into "overpaying any asset I try to get". Maybe negotiation isn't his strongest suit? This would also explain the general overpay for contracts like Sergachev, Cirelli, Cernak, Sheary (why tf there's a NTC in there?) and so on.

I was one of the most adamant supporters of JBB's moves, but his recent history is making me doubt his abilities in some departments.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

I know Yzerman had a thing for big defensemen too. IMO, it really depends on the defenseman and their role. We have a couple of guys who can contribute offensively, so, when it comes to guys trying to hold down the fort, I don't blame Cooper, or JBB, for looking for size. They tend to be, at the very least, tougher to play against.

I find we are drafting bigger players now, and moving away from smaller, skilled guys in general. To me this is a mistake because it's easier to add grit than skill down the line, and it's easier to teach a skilled player to have grit (which we have done a few times) than to teach a gritty player to have skill.


IMO, Colorado's defense in 2022 was very underrated. They were shutting teams down when they needed to. When we won in 2020, everyone was talking about the offense, but really we won by shutting teams down and scoring when we needed to. I feel like Colorado shut teams down but weren't actively trying to win 1-0 every night the way we were.

Colorado shut teams down because they had the puck the whole time & were faster than everyone else. Makar & Toews were cheat codes, MacKinnon was a freight train on a steal of a contract, meaning they had the space to have Kadri and Burakovsky tear up teams' bottom 6 lines.

 

[Major4Boarding]

After last night I trust JFBB even more. If that was even possible. Hanifin by himself wasn't fixing this

 

[JFleegs]

We need a coaching overhaul, wish Torts was still available the guy knows how to get teams to punch above their weight class.

 

[DFC]

Colorado shut teams down because they had the puck the whole time & were faster than everyone else. Makar & Toews were cheat codes, MacKinnon was a freight train on a steal of a contract, meaning they had the space to have Kadri and Burakovsky tear up teams' bottom 6 lines.

They shut teams down moving the other way too. They were just a really strong team.

 

[Outl4w]

I think there's a worrying trend with JBB.
He started out by overpaying players that were not on the market, so he had to convince the other GM to give in with great offers. And that's fine because he went out targeting good players with low cap hits and still with term. But what I thought was overpaying for unavailable player is turning into "overpaying any asset I try to get". Maybe negotiation isn't his strongest suit? This would also explain the general overpay for contracts like Sergachev, Cirelli, Cernak, Sheary (why tf there's a NTC in there?) and so on.

I was one of the most adamant supporters of JBB's moves, but his recent history is making me doubt his abilities in some departments.

I agree

 

[DFC]

I'm a f***ing mess dude. I want us to blow this team sky high but I still think it has potential


I need a drink

it does have potential, but using the idea that we missed out on Hanafin as a reason to trust JBB even more... It just makes no sense. You're saying JBB didn't get the guy he was actually trying to get, but didn't have the assets to get, and therefore you trust him more because he wasn't able to make the thing happen that he was trying to make happen?

I mean, we all have weird takes from time to time, but man, you have to stop doubling down on trying to disprove the obvious, or prove the ridiculous. Not saying it's a knock on JBB that we missed Hanafin. Just saying it makes no sense whatsoever to say that somehow is a credit to JBB.