2023-2024 Coaching/Management/Ownership

[robbieboy3686]

Yes Bottom line is.. Both coaches were inexperienced and had flaws.. Eakins was to easy.. Seems as though Cronin might be to Hard on them? Than again where is the limit with these guys?

Perry Getz bieksa Kesler cogs would cringe at the thohhht duck players have a coach that’s fo hard on them

 

[Rybread86]

View attachment 838944

Verbeek to our young players

Ehhhh, kind of. They had plenty of veterans to start the season. Now were tossing in young guys for a myriad of reasons. I dont really think its been all that unfair on the better young players. They have to find that next level and step up.

I guess my question to you is, what was he supposed to do differently? Not sell off vets? Keep the young guys down in the AHL longer? Sign more vets and take spots away from the young guys? Im open, just wondering.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

When Cronin said he had two rookies playing on their off-side is very difficult in last night's post-game interview (gm 69), why bring up playing on their off-side? Just being a rookie in the NHL is hard enough. An in case of Zell, he was recently brought up from the AHL. He's going to make mistakes as he discovers what he can or cannot do.

I'm very confused as to why Cronin and Verbeek are averse to playing left shooting D on the right side to defensemen who have played exclusively on the right side as left-handed shooters? LaCombe, Zell, and Hinds have all played RD for years before going pro. If Verbeek truly didn't prefer that, then that is his own doing in not acquiring enough RD to keep the defense on their shooting side. I would think most GM's would be grateful to have that versatility at their disposal as many LD's cannot play RD.

 

[DuckDuckGetz]

So talking about coaches and team leadership got me thinking about Bruce and Getzlaf. Remember that interview that Bruce gave a year or two ago when he was asked who was his favorite captain that played for him? He named Getzlaf. One of his biggest reasons for that was Getzlaf knew when something was going on that couldnt be solved or addressed by the coach. Getz knew when something needed to be done or said by the captain, by a player instead of a coach.

For me, thats exactly what Cronin was saying when he gave his final answer in that interview "its up to them in the room, they gotta figure that out". This is a Getzlaf moment, not a Bruce moment. Its a player issue right now, not a coach issue.

And I will also say this. We've seen Ducks teams quit in the past. We've seen them turn on a coach and tune them out. Thats not what I am seeing right now. I'm seeing a depleted team with no leadership. They are overmatched with guys gone due to trade and injury. We've got about 8 or 9 guys skating right now that are either AHLers, 13th forwards, 7th Dmen on most teams.

I was talking to a friend about this recently. I can't think of a single person on the team who has the personality and the pedigree to call everyone else out on their shit like Getz could. Vatrano hasn't been good enough for long enough and Killorn has been too inconsistent in the line-up to do it.

At one point we had Getz, Kesler, and even guys like Cogs or Bieksa who could step up and do it all at the same time lol

It's why I think I'm on board with bringing a guy like Stamkos in, barring some stupid contract.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

I can understand some people thinking Cronin is to blame for all this even if he’s only part of the problem. But the revisionist history that Eakins was somehow so much better a coach is flat out, over the top nonsense.

Put down the crack pipes, take some time off from the Ducks, and find a 3 Stooges marathon streaming somewhere in the vast wasteland of the internet. You can later thank the Dr for his sage advice, once you’ve come back to reality.

 

[AngelDuck]

I would personally name Gudas or Killorn captain next season as a bridge to someone like McTavish or another younger guy.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

'They responded in the right way': How a canceled trip to see U2 helped turn around the Predators' season

Since one of their worst losses of the season in mid-February, the Panthers have recorded at least a point in 15 straight games. What's been the key to a turnaround that has them in position for a playoff berth?

www.espn.com

Signing those veterans was partly motivated by discussions Trotz had with other GMs who had been in a similar situation. Trotz recalled that one of them said his biggest regret was not keeping veteran players around who could help shape a team's culture during a retool.

"He said, 'Our thought was to let the kids play and just go from there,'" Trotz said. "But what happened was the kids didn't develop because they were trying to survive and just couldn't develop. So you need to insulate some of those young guys."

It's one school of thought, anyway.

 

[Ducks DVM]

I can understand some people thinking Cronin is to blame for all this even if he’s only part of the problem. But the revisionist history that Eakins was somehow so much better a coach is flat out, over the top nonsense.

Put down the crack pipes, take some time off from the Ducks, and find a 3 Stooges marathon streaming somewhere in the vast wasteland of the internet. You can later thank the Dr for his sage advice, once you’ve come back to reality.

I’m not blaming Cronin for all of this, but I am comfortable saying that Eakins was exponentially better at motivating his players to come out ready to play, and to get them to play motivated for much more of a 60 minute game. He was also exponentially better at post-game interviews and analysis. And the team was more fun to watch when the rosters were equally deficient in overall talent.

I do wonder just how much his letting Zegras develop his offensive game and not force him to play in a defensive structure annoyed Verbeek though.

 

[JAHV]

I’m not blaming Cronin for all of this, but I am comfortable saying that Eakins was exponentially better at motivating his players to come out ready to play, and to get them to play motivated for much more of a 60 minute game. He was also exponentially better at post-game interviews and analysis. And the team was more fun to watch when the rosters were equally deficient in overall talent.

I do wonder just how much his letting Zegras develop his offensive game and not force him to play in a defensive structure annoyed Verbeek though.

I'm curious as to why you're comfortable saying this. I feel like the Ducks have looked more consistently motivated throughout the game under Cronin than they did under Eakins the last two seasons. I rarely listen to coach interviews, so I can't comment on that, but I don't see a motivation or engagement problem under Cronin at all.

I am concerned about systems and I'm concerned about execution, both of which can be laid at Cronin's feet (as well as the penalty issue), but I don't know about motivation.

 

[DuckDuckGetz]

I can understand some people thinking Cronin is to blame for all this even if he’s only part of the problem. But the revisionist history that Eakins was somehow so much better a coach is flat out, over the top nonsense.

Put down the crack pipes, take some time off from the Ducks, and find a 3 Stooges marathon streaming somewhere in the vast wasteland of the internet. You can later thank the Dr for his sage advice, once you’ve come back to reality.

We all cope with difficult seasons differently!

 

[Rybread86]

I would personally name Gudas or Killorn captain next season as a bridge to someone like McTavish or another younger guy.

They gotta earn it or take it, like anyone else. If they arent grabbing those reigns themselves, regardless of whats stitched to their shoulder, then they arent it either.

The letter itself means nothing, is the character behind it.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

I’m not blaming Cronin for all of this, but I am comfortable saying that Eakins was exponentially better at motivating his players to come out ready to play, and to get them to play motivated for much more of a 60 minute game. He was also exponentially better at post-game interviews and analysis. And the team was more fun to watch when the rosters were equally deficient in overall talent.

I do wonder just how much his letting Zegras develop his offensive game and not force him to play in a defensive structure annoyed Verbeek though.

I don't recall what you may have said previously. My response wasn't really directed at anybody in particular. But certainly more than one comment was made claiming Eakins was a better coach. Given where this team has been and where it is now, that's like saying I much prefer the shit sandwich I had last year to the shit sandwich with mustard I'm having this year. I mean, what's the logic in that? How about we talk about how to find a good ham and cheese sandwich instead?

Briefly though I think the team has had short runs of looking decent last year and this. But they've been brief and not sustainable so I don't really know what to make of it. I'm still searching for that ham and cheese sandwich.

 

[GreatBear]

There are an awful lot of really grumpy people (myself included) after yet another horrible Duck season. Maybe next year will be better. It would be hard to be worse. But that is what I said last year, and look at this year.

 

[Ducks DVM]

I'm curious as to why you're comfortable saying this. I feel like the Ducks have looked more consistently motivated throughout the game under Cronin than they did under Eakins the last two seasons. I rarely listen to coach interviews, so I can't comment on that, but I don't see a motivation or engagement problem under Cronin at all.

I am concerned about systems and I'm concerned about execution, both of which can be laid at Cronin's feet (as well as the penalty issue), but I don't know about motivation.

Trying and succeeding are not the same thing. This is a much better roster when healthy, AINEC, and is still a better roster post Verbeekening III. I was entertained much more sitting there because the players were hustling in both directions. This year, how many times has Cronin’s entire press conference been “they need to come out ready to play and never do and I don’t know why?”

Last year, it was notable when the team quit when being outplayed. This year, it’s expected.

 

[Ducks DVM]

I don't recall what you may have said previously. My response wasn't really directed at anybody in particular. But certainly more than one comment was made claiming Eakins was a better coach. Given where this team has been and where it is now, that's like saying I much prefer the shit sandwich I had last year to the shit sandwich with mustard I'm having this year. I mean, what's the logic in that? How about we talk about how to find a good ham and cheese sandwich instead?

Briefly though I think the team has had short runs of looking decent last year and this. But they've been brief and not sustainable so I don't really know what to make of it. I'm still searching for that ham and cheese sandwich.

I think Eakins and Cronin both have systems that require good players. I don’t think either has had a roster capable of running their system. I think last year was truly the worst NHL defensive corps outside of the early expansion teams. I think this year’s offense has had too many injuries to make any assessments on.

I don’t know that Eakins would ever amount to anything, but I haven’t seen anything out of Cronin to make me think he’s any better. His system appears to be dump and chase when we don’t have the personnel for it, whereas there was far more creativity allowed last year. Dump and chase when successful is frequently boring, when it’s unsuccessful it can be excruciating to watch. I’ll take high event losing over “will we get to 20 shots THIS game?” Every day of the week.

We need talent, and we need a training system to keep people healthy. I don’t like that fact that the players shook like whipped and beaten dogs this year.

 

[JAHV]

Trying and succeeding are not the same thing. This is a much better roster when healthy, AINEC, and is still a better roster post Verbeekening III. I was entertained much more sitting there because the players were hustling in both directions. This year, how many times has Cronin’s entire press conference been “they need to come out ready to play and never do and I don’t know why?”

Last year, it was notable when the team quit when being outplayed. This year, it’s expected.

As someone who hasn't listened to anything Cronin has said after the first couple weeks of the season, I can't verify if that's an exact quote or just your interpretation of his quotes, but I don't see them not hustling. And this roster has never been healthy, so it's never been much better than last year's.

Sure, there have been times when they've seemed somewhat disengaged (like every sports team ever), but certainly not any more than last year, where it seemed like after they gave up goal #2 (which was usually midway through the 1st), there was a total lack of effort or cohesion. They seem to be trying to implement the game plan more consistently; they're just failing at it and getting burned.

I've rarely see the team quit this year.

 

[MMC]

I said on this board around this time last year when everyone was talking about Eakins being fired at the end of this season that I wouldn’t be shocked at all if he was brought back because the roster was not going to be good enough this season for the coaching to matter, and more importantly for PV, for his first head coaching choice for this team to be put into a position to succeed, so this outcome and the ensuing fan reaction isn’t surprising to me. I still think if Eakins had more term on his contract PV probably would’ve waited to make the change

 

[Ducks DVM]

As someone who hasn't listened to anything Cronin has said after the first couple weeks of the season, I can't verify if that's an exact quote or just your interpretation of his quotes, but I don't see them not hustling. And this roster has never been healthy, so it's never been much better than last year's.

Sure, there have been times when they've seemed somewhat disengaged (like every sports team ever), but certainly not any more than last year, where it seemed like after they gave up goal #2 (which was usually midway through the 1st), there was a total lack of effort or cohesion. They seem to be trying to implement the game plan more consistently; they're just failing at it and getting burned.

I've rarely see the team quit this year.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Nobody I sit with thinks this team is a better ticket than it was last year.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I’m not blaming Cronin for all of this, but I am comfortable saying that Eakins was exponentially better at motivating his players to come out ready to play, and to get them to play motivated for much more of a 60 minute game. He was also exponentially better at post-game interviews and analysis. And the team was more fun to watch when the rosters were equally deficient in overall talent.

I do wonder just how much his letting Zegras develop his offensive game and not force him to play in a defensive structure annoyed Verbeek though.

Roster talent is most often the culprit of bad seasons. Last year, the roster was abysmal, especially on the blue line. This year, there's a bump in talent at forward (more GF pre-TDL) and significant bump in talent on the blue line (far fewer GA pre-TDL). Same PP coach for the two years and different PK coach for the two seasons.

As you cited, there was more activity under Eakins last year than there has been under Cronin this year, despite having less talent. Not only do we visually notice this, but we have metric to assess the comparisons as well.

• Ducks team with talent (to start the season), Eakins
  • 2021-22 pre TDL: 62 games, Record = 27-25-10 (64 pts), Pts Pct = 51.6%
    • 2021-22 at All-Star Break: 48 games, Record: 23-16-9 (55 pts) 3rd in Pacific
    • 2021-22 pre TDL: GF = 180, GA = 197, GD = -17
  • 2021-22 post TDL: 20 games, Record = 4-12-4 (12 pts), Pts Pct = 30.0%
    • 2021-22 post TDL: GF = 52, GA = 74, GD = -22
  • 1-goal games, pre TDL: 32 games, Record = 13-9-10 (36 pts), Pts Pct = 56.3%
    1-goal games, post TDL: 6 games, Record = 0-2-4 (4 pts), Pts Pct = 33.3%

• Ducks team, Eakins
  • 2022-23 pre TDL: 61 games, Record = 20-34-7 (47 pts), Pts Pct = 38.8%
    • GF = 156, GA = 252, GD = -96
  • 2022-23 post TDL: 21 games, Record = 3-13-5 (11 pts), Pts Pct = 26.2%
    • 2022-23 post TDL: GF = 53, GA = 86, GD = -33
  • 1-goal games, pre TDL: 23 games, Record = 13-3-7 (33 pts), Pts Pct = 71.7%
    1-goal games, post TDL: 11 games, Record = 2-4-5 (9 pts), Pts Pct = 40.9%

• Ducks team, Cronin
  • 2023-24 pre TDL: 62 games, Record = 23-36-3 (49 pts), Pts Pct = 39.5%
    • GF = 164, GA = 217, GD = -53
  • 2023-24 post TDL: 8 games, Record = 0-7-0 (0 pts), Pts Pct = 0.0%
    • 2023-24 post TDL: GF = 7 GA = 35, GD = -28
  • 1-goal games: 27 games, Record = 13-11-3 (29 pts), Pts Pct = 53.7%
    1-goal games, post TDL: 0 games, Record = 0-0-0 (0 pts), Pts Pct = 0.0%

When Eakins had a healthy, talented team to start in 2021-22, he showed he can win a lot of games. If he shortened his bench earlier to start the season, then he could have earned more points or win more games. Imagine if Comtois actually was hungry to play instead of mailing it in once he got paid that season?!

Last year, everyone was hung up on odd things such as Regulation Wins despite winning games to start the season or the high volume SA despite coming away with points and wins, which I identified we were doing on purpose because it did generate points and wins.

I recall how often we meme'd "Are you not entertained?" in GDT's last season. But this year, we kinda fall asleep often because it's been boring on top of losing. We have been shutout nine times this year with a plethora of games left to witness. Last season, we got shut out four times before the TDL and only once after the TDL.

It's the post-game interviews that we notice how Cronin gives out responses that he has no answers and that it's his very young team that needs to figure it out. Does Cronin know he's got a very young team that needs development, guidance, and constant re-teaching if needed? I don't think Cronin's a good development coach at the NHL level, but maybe he can improve over the summer? Or maybe he can contact Getz on how to relate to today's youth?

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

I think Eakins and Cronin both have systems that require good players. I don’t think either has had a roster capable of running their system. I think last year was truly the worst NHL defensive corps outside of the early expansion teams. I think this year’s offense has had too many injuries to make any assessments on.

I don’t know that Eakins would ever amount to anything, but I haven’t seen anything out of Cronin to make me think he’s any better. His system appears to be dump and chase when we don’t have the personnel for it, whereas there was far more creativity allowed last year. Dump and chase when successful is frequently boring, when it’s unsuccessful it can be excruciating to watch. I’ll take high event losing over “will we get to 20 shots THIS game?” Every day of the week.

We need talent, and we need a training system to keep people healthy. I don’t like that fact that the players shook like whipped and beaten dogs this year.

I'm not saying your take is wrong, I just think that......

1. It's not all Cronin's fault. I still think PV is dictating a lot coaching related of things Crow has no control over.
2. If Eakins were still here I wouldn't expect any better results (I think injuries have been a huge factor this year).
3. We (the forum), collectively are chasing our tail trying to define exactly who to blame for another crappy season that has plenty of blame to go around.
4. None of us has a clue what conversations have been had among PV, Cronin, and the players which makes it frustrating to really feel good that the train is on the track and heading in the right direction.

My plan for the rest of the season is to watch fewer Ducks games and more contender games to see how the playoffs shape up. I'll probably watch a few more Oil games because I like Rico and Sam.

 

[Ducks DVM]

The presence of this gif most likely is the best indicator of success the last three years.

 

[Ducks DVM]

I'm not saying your take is wrong, I just think that......

1. It's not all Cronin's fault. I still think PV is dictating a lot coaching related of things Crow has no control over.
2. If Eakins were still here I wouldn't expect any better results (I think injuries have been a huge factor this year).
3. We (the forum), collectively are chasing our tail trying to define exactly who to blame for another crappy season that has plenty of blame to go around.
4. None of us has a clue what conversations have been had among PV, Cronin, and the players which makes it frustrating to really feel good that the train is on the track and heading in the right direction.

My plan for the rest of the season is to watch fewer Ducks games and more contender games to see how the playoffs shape up. I'll probably watch a few more Oil games because I like Rico and Sam.

I agree with all of this.

I’m just finding myself yearning for the games to end lately, and that’s not something I’m used to.

 

[Rybread86]

Cronin is and likely always has been a short term hire. This roster wasnt good enough with Eakins, its not good enough with Cronin. Verbeek still has a lot of work to do and hes even indicated that he knows it. Cronins comments are often taken the wrong way because of the bitterness many of us have towards the way this season went. Injuries have played a large role in the outcome of this season. Trades will have an even bigger impact on the home stretch.

Cronin and likely Verbeek are trying to find ways to push their leaders to take some responsibility and control of the locker room. Is what it is

 

[Hockey Duckie]

3. We (the forum), collectively are chasing our tail trying to define exactly who to blame for another crappy season that has plenty of blame to go around.

It's a development season this year like last year was a development season. Being bad was expected last year. Being equally bad or worse this year was not expected, but still being a development season was expected, especially with so many rookies being pushed onto the roster this year.

I don't think many have accepted we reset the rebuild and that we don't have enough top-6 veterans as well as top-4D to guide the way. I was prepared to wait five years when the first Verbeekening occurred b/c Verbeek said most rebuild take five years.

As for injuries...

Ducks 2022-23 injury chart, courtesy of Injury Viz

Ducks 2023-24, after 63 games.

 

[duxfan1101]

Friedman and Marek brought up an interesting idea on their podcast today. Apparently, Paul Maurice, when he was with the Jets, brought in a referee as a consultant one offseason to help with his team’s discipline issues. I don’t have enough info to be able to tell if that was successful or not, but it seems like it could be helpful for us.