2023-2024 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread

Celtic Note

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I largely agree. Bannister has generally done I think strong job of doing what we asked of him- helping develop young players and getting more consistent effort out of the team. We had become too inconsistent under Berube towards the end (basically what Army said explaining the move), and Bannister has maybe not delivered the highs but it seems we have had less of the lows.

I like how Bannister is holding guys accountable, sitting players who he feels merit it and hasn't been shy about calling players out in a way that Berube rarely did. He seems so calm and soft spoken we sometimes miss that he is tough. Now I don't see much signs of strategic genius or an inspiring leader, but I don't see our next coach as the guy who is going to get us over the top. The next coach is our Andy Murray, helping grow the young players and keeping team competitive through the process. And Bannister may well be that guy.
Yeah, I also don’t see him as the long-term coaching answer. He is our version of Andy Murray at the moment. That may be ok. I think we will be onto another coach once we are ready to really compete. Given the shelf life of coaches and their messages, it seems a safe assumption.
 

Stupendous Yappi

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Yeah, I also don’t see him as the long-term coaching answer. He is our version of Andy Murray at the moment. That may be ok. I think we will be onto another coach once we are ready to really compete. Given the shelf life of coaches and their messages, it seems a safe assumption.
I hope they keep him, but I also expect a different head coach to take over when the team is a real threat again.

I can’t really see who would come in now and get more out of this group. I’d also prioritize player development enough that throwing away a guy doing well in that area is an unnecessary gamble.
 

bleedblue1223

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I want Bannister in the organization, but I don't think I want him as the head coach. I also don't really agree with doing an Andy Murray approach, I think the bigger thing is getting a head coach that brings a style that we want to adopt with the prospects we have coming up. Moving forward, we are likely going to have to succeed through our offense as we won't have a lockdown d-core like we used to. I want that next coach to be able to implement that, instead of getting an Andy Murray tough guy type, knowing that we'll want a better X's and O's type in the nearish future.

Imagine if Colorado waited to hire a guy like Bednar until they were a competitive playoff team. Get the guy that you actually believe is a good long-term coach for guys like Thomas and Kyrou, but also guys like Snuggerud, Dvorsky, Bolduc, Neighbours, etc.
 
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LogosBlue

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I agree that we should keep Bannister in the system. My preference for a new head coach would be Gerard Gallant and coming in a close second would be Kirk Muller.
 

Brian39

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Imagine if Colorado waited to hire a guy like Bednar until they were a competitive playoff team. Get the guy that you actually believe is a good long-term coach for guys like Thomas and Kyrou, but also guys like Snuggerud, Dvorsky, Bolduc, Neighbours, etc.
Bednar was a career minor league coach that was hired only because Patrick Roy quit on the team a month before training camp. He had a good resume and was well respected around the league, but I don't think there is much out there to support the idea that the Avs hired him as the long-term 'get you over the hump when the roster is ready to do that' coach as opposed to a good fit for a middling young team.

He then had a disastrous first NHL season (which many I believe fairly attributed to the last-second nature of the hire) and then a great 2nd NHL season.

I'm not saying that Bannister is the next Bednar, but Bednar's road to success with the Avs is probably as much of an argument to give Bannister a full season to implement his own system and develop the young talent as it is an argument to bring in another guy because you believe he is the guy to get the team over the hump.
 

BadgersandBlues

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This is the crux of the pro-Perunovich argument: well yeah, he's shit defensively even when he's sheltered - but it's only at a cost of league minimum, and look at that offense!

And I'm not going to rehash my longstanding points - I'll let experience be the teacher here - but for a team where the structure is based on good defensive hockey, to have someone whose defense is poor even at league minimum seems like a bad idea when his offense doesn't even kind of make up for it.
Ok so I was kinda with you until the end. Peru is doing fine. He's not a rockstar defensively, but he's still putting up reasonable numbers, and again, he is the only one (Along with Scandella) who has a positive GF/GA ratio at 5v5 of any D-man that's played at least 50 minutes. We sheltered the shit out of Krug and Faulk last year and they were horrible, easily the number one reason we went from a 109 point team to a 80-whatever point team, so please don't pretend like being sheltered means you immediately have success.

Any player making league minimum is going to have flaws. That's kinda like......why they make league minimum. If Peru had the offensive instincts that he does, and the ability to throw off forecheckers like he does, with Parayko's defense.....he'd be like, exactly what this team needs and probably worth around 9M lol.

And saying this team's structure is based off good defensive hockey is the most hilarious thing I've seen on this board since the last Dizee post I read. My brother in Christ, we have no structure. We don't defend well, we don't transition well, we don't forecheck well. We basically rely on Thomas and to a lesser extent Kyrou/Buch/Neighbors/Saad to basically go out there and find a way to score. Every player on our team, including the ones mentioned above, are all below 50% on xGF%. We don't have a single thing that's a plus on this team to hang our hat on other then Binner and Hofer giving us top 3 goaltending as a tandem for the year. Other then that, all our other metrics are downright putrid.
 
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AjaxManifesto

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I think for this team to be successful, you have to have guys like Nieghbours. He is just a different kind of player because of how strong he is, but hopefully he can start to bring more young guys with him in getting in front of the net and crashing. I think Toropchenko has exceeded expectations and Alexandrov could try his hand at the net front nuisance (he's not nearly as strong). There's a lot of good players in the system that will be both high IQ offense guys and big body scorers, but I'm curious to see who ends up where. Stenberg, Stancl, and to a much lesser extent Washkurak could be the net front guys. I would really like McGing to take a note from Walker in how he should be playing because Walker always comes up and makes an impact for a good 30 ish games and is surprisingly strong and physical for his height.
100%

More Neighbors and Toros needed
 
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BadgersandBlues

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To expand upon my previous post, and also to stake my territory on the HC decision this off-season:

I have zero desire to see Bannister as our head coach next year, unless we are expecting to well and truly tank. We have had the worst underlying metrics in the entire league since he started, and it's now well past the strength of schedule argument.

For emphasis - THE WORST. Worst 5v5 Corsi and Fenwick of any team, including San Jose and Chicago. Worst 5v5 xGF% of any team including San Jose and Chicago. Second worst SCF% (Only Chicago is worse) and worst HDCF%, again including San Jose and Chicago.

Our team should not be this bad. Full stop. The fact that we are even sniffing a playoff spot is b/c since Bannister took over our goalies have had the 4th highest save percentage in the league and have saved I believe the most GSAA compared to the rest of the league (I always suck at pulling those numbers, perhaps someone should check and make sure I'm not talking out of my bum). Bannister has made our team demonstrably worse in every aspect, outside of Binner/Hofer waking up and deciding to put this team on their back.

That's why I've been so frustrated all season, b/c this team plays like crap yet still finds ways to eek out wins thanks to exceptional goaltending when frankly, with our talent, we should have way more success and I attribute a lot of that to our lack of coaching and getting the players to buy in. When we score first, we are the BEST team in the league at winning games. When we are scored on first, we are the third WORST team in the league. To me that screams that our coaches can't get our players to trust the process. And why would they, we have no process.
 

bleedblue1223

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Bednar was a career minor league coach that was hired only because Patrick Roy quit on the team a month before training camp. He had a good resume and was well respected around the league, but I don't think there is much out there to support the idea that the Avs hired him as the long-term 'get you over the hump when the roster is ready to do that' coach as opposed to a good fit for a middling young team.

He then had a disastrous first NHL season (which many I believe fairly attributed to the last-second nature of the hire) and then a great 2nd NHL season.

I'm not saying that Bannister is the next Bednar, but Bednar's road to success with the Avs is probably as much of an argument to give Bannister a full season to implement his own system and develop the young talent as it is an argument to bring in another guy because you believe he is the guy to get the team over the hump.
My point isn't that Bannister will be a Bednar, or that he was Colorado's first choice or they expected him to do what he did, but he wasn't an Andy Murray type that they only wanted to hire to whip the young guys into shape, and then ship out once they got good.

There are many different options we could take. Bannister could stay on, we hire a younger/inexperienced option that is viewed as an up and comer from AHL/NCAA/Juniors, or someone with NHL experience. I'm open to anything, I just don't want someone that we specifically seek out for 2ish years, that is known for just being a ball-busting coach that doesn't have the best X's and O's background, and someone that we plan on letting go once we hit a certain level of success. We need more than just a, do exactly what I say or you'll be punished type.

I don't know where Bannister ranks on lists that other GMs have. Bednar seemed like someone that was eventually getting a job, it wasn't like Colorado just hired their AHL coach like we did with Bannister and previously with Payne. I'd assume Bednar was someone on their shortlist, and Bannister was more of a convenience pick.
 
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Damian Frerker

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why not it let the kids play next year?
Snuggs Thomas Neighbors
Buch Davorsky Kyrou
Bolduc Schenn Saad
Torpo Dean Sunny
If we suck worse than this year hopefully we get our No 1 Dman in the draft. Our D must get bigger. Go Blues
 

Linkens Mastery

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why not it let the kids play next year?
Snuggs Thomas Neighbors
Buch Davorsky Kyrou
Bolduc Schenn Saad
Torpo Dean Sunny
If we suck worse than this year hopefully we get our No 1 Dman in the draft. Our D must get bigger. Go Blues
Because forcing the kids into the NHL too early can easily be more of a detriment to their growth as a hockey player than them playing more in the Juniors or AHL.
 

taylord22

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Article from The Athletic today highlighting the most underrated centers. Thomas was the top of the list with a fair amount of supporting content, but this stuck out:

Screen Shot 2024-03-28 at 11.58.37 AM.png

…excited for the day we have a real second line again.
 
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bleedblue1223

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He is essentially this core's Petro. His performance is why I'm still pretty optimistic for our future. Regardless of Petro's partner, we had a really good top pair. Regardless of how the other forwards develop, we'll likely always have a really good 1st line led by Thomas. Getting a building block at C or D is critical for building a squad.
 

Majorityof1

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why not it let the kids play next year?
Snuggs Thomas Neighbors
Buch Davorsky Kyrou
Bolduc Schenn Saad
Torpo Dean Sunny
If we suck worse than this year hopefully we get our No 1 Dman in the draft. Our D must get bigger. Go Blues

Because forcing the kids into the NHL too early can easily be more of a detriment to their growth as a hockey player than them playing more in the Juniors or AHL.

Exactly what Linken's said. You risk ruining their development by bringing them up too early, not having proper veteran support and leadership. It's why a lot if bad teams stay bad and have top picks not work out.
 

bleedblue1223

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I think we'll slowly bring some of them along. I think the only way we have a bunch of rookies at once is if the guys that are behind Bolduc and Dean have monster camps, and I mean monster camps. I don't think we hold anyone back if they are ready, but I don't think we going to have an all-rookie team just to have one.
 

Ted Hoffman

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Any player making league minimum is going to have flaws. That's kinda like......why they make league minimum.
I'm going to point you to my past comments on Perunovich and leave it at that. Maybe someone else will indulge you on a discussion of Peru's [lack of] defensive prowess, but I prefer even my minimum-salary guys to be somewhat competent and not have f***ing gaping holes in their game that their alleged strengths don't make up for.

Clearly, YMMV.

And saying this team's structure is based off good defensive hockey is the most hilarious thing I've seen on this board since the last Dizee post I read.
I'm sorry you haven't noticed the style of play that makes the Blues successful. It's not playing bandwagon hockey, end-to-end rushes, swapping goals and outscoring the opposition along the way. It's sound defense first, the offense rolls from there. If you can't see that, and if you didn't notice that in 2019, 2020 and much of the 2021-22 season when this team had outstanding results vs. 2021 and the last 2 seasons where the defense was suspect and this season looks passable only because Binnington is putting on a Vezina-worthy performance, I don't know what else to tell you.
 

Brian39

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Article from The Athletic today highlighting the most underrated centers. Thomas was the top of the list with a fair amount of supporting content, but this stuck out:

View attachment 842587
…excited for the day we have a real second line again.
I've been beating this drum for a while now, but Thomas deserves legitimate consideration for the Selke. He won't, but he has been so good all over the ice this season.
 

BadgersandBlues

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I'm sorry you haven't noticed the style of play that makes the Blues successful. It's not playing bandwagon hockey, end-to-end rushes, swapping goals and outscoring the opposition along the way. It's sound defense first, the offense rolls from there. If you can't see that, and if you didn't notice that in 2019, 2020 and much of the 2021-22 season when this team had outstanding results vs. 2021 and the last 2 seasons where the defense was suspect and this season looks passable only because Binnington is putting on a Vezina-worthy performance, I don't know what else to tell you.
Strawman much? I never said we should play bandwagon hockey. Your recent post was talking about the present, not historical success. Historically I agree with you, we had a ton of success thanks to playing structured, defensive hockey (And yet we still figured out how to incorporate offensive minded D who struggled defensively like Shattenkirk and Dunn). Helps that we had a #1 D man that was in the conversation for a Norris every year, something we don't have anymore. Since he's left, we haven't had that structured game to rely on and I agree it's been a struggle. I'm not advocating against playing a solid, structured defensive game, I was merely pointing out that we currently (Underlining since that seems to be the only way to grab your attention, unless I also need to Bold) don't play that way. Even if we did go back to that style, which I think is probably wise, a guy like Peru would still have a place on this team.

Peru has been perfectly reasonable in his role. If our second pairing was Hanifin instead of Krug, I think Peru's value would be even higher quite honestly, b/c Faulk looks f***ing lost when trying to run a PP, and lord help me if we ever seriously put Parayko there.
 

taylord22

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I've been beating this drum for a while now, but Thomas deserves legitimate consideration for the Selke. He won't, but he has been so good all over the ice this season.
The fact that he is turning into such a dominant 2-way player makes things interesting regarding who (gets/has to) play with him. Especially while we're stuck in limbo with the 2nd line. Neighbors/Buch make a lot of sense, but you eventually have to get a legitimate (defensively responsible) shooter on his wing. Lots of "if this, then that" type scenarios depending on what's done with Buch, and how Snuggerud/Bolduc/Dvorsky/Stenberg develop.

Regardless, it's remarkable that he's been able to play at this level across all three zones, especially when the DZ transitions are bottom barrel, and our ability to hold the OZ blue line and generally act as an outlet is abysmal. Understand why people have concerns about zone time, but I don't think we properly appreciate how much the D contribute positive/negatively to those possession numbers.
 

joe galiba

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Strawman much? I never said we should play bandwagon hockey. Your recent post was talking about the present, not historical success. Historically I agree with you, we had a ton of success thanks to playing structured, defensive hockey (And yet we still figured out how to incorporate offensive minded D who struggled defensively like Shattenkirk and Dunn). Helps that we had a #1 D man that was in the conversation for a Norris every year, something we don't have anymore. Since he's left, we haven't had that structured game to rely on and I agree it's been a struggle. I'm not advocating against playing a solid, structured defensive game, I was merely pointing out that we currently (Underlining since that seems to be the only way to grab your attention, unless I also need to Bold) don't play that way. Even if we did go back to that style, which I think is probably wise, a guy like Peru would still have a place on this team.

Peru has been perfectly reasonable in his role. If our second pairing was Hanifin instead of Krug, I think Peru's value would be even higher quite honestly, b/c Faulk looks f***ing lost when trying to run a PP, and lord help me if we ever seriously put Parayko there.
I am glad others see how freaking terrible our D, other than Krug and Peru, are running the point on the PP
I don't mind Faulk at all as a shooter in a two D setup, but running the point - yuck
 

BadgersandBlues

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Please learn what a 'straw man argument' really is before lobbing it as an accusation.

TIA
You picked out one piece of my argument and generated an entire line of BS off it. Nowhere did I say we should look to play bandwagon hockey. I said that we don't have sound defensive gameplay RIGHT NOW, and it's sure as hell not winning us games. You took that to all of a sudden mean that I said ever.

Get a grip man.
 

Damian Frerker

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Jun 17, 2021
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Exactly what Linken's said. You risk ruining their development by bringing them up too early, not having proper veteran support and leadership. It's why a lot if bad teams stay bad and have top picks not work
Exactly what Linken's said. You risk ruining their development by bringing them up too early, not having proper veteran support and leadership. It's why a lot if bad teams stay bad and have top picks not work out.
don’t you think Schenn Saad Buch Thonas Sunny Parayko Faulk Krug Leddy Binner is enough veteran support?
 

Linkens Mastery

Conductor of the TankTown Express
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I'd rather be a shitty team while playing a bunch of Vets while the young players play and progress (and hopefully going to the playoffs) in other leagues than be a shitty team forcing young players to play in the NHL before they are ready and deteriorating their confidence.
 

Davimir Tarablad

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I'd rather be a shitty team while playing a bunch of Vets while the young players play and progress (and hopefully going to the playoffs) in other leagues than be a shitty team forcing young players to play in the NHL before they are ready and deteriorating their confidence.
Screw that, Buffalo's model of talent development is clearly the way to go.
 

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