HF Habs: 2022 NHL Draft 13

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MarkovsKnee

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Last thread was getting a little long in the tooth.

According to this, Senators are willing to move #7, or move back, as they're looking to compete next season. There seems to be an idea that they could get a player that suits them later.

They also think it's a draft with good skill through 2nd round, which I definitely agree with.

Story:

 
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Riggins

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Jul 12, 2002
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Sorry boys you have me on the McCagg slander train. Read this if you want to roll on the floor laughing:


He compares Laine to Mario and says he's not far off his level. This article is gold from top to bottom. Reminds me of a certain Slaf vs. Wright debate, even if Matthews and Laine were far superior prospects.
 
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le_sean

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Oct 21, 2006
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@Schooner Guy

I can give Slaf credit. He looked good at times. But you are the one that brought up tournament production. So obviously that comes with the caveat that he only produced against non-hockey countries. If you want to keep pointing out that he outscored Barzal, I’ll point out he only did that thanks to playing France, Italy and Kazakhstan.

He’s a great young player. There’s a reason he’s going Top 5. But there’s also plenty of reasons not to take him 1st.
 
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Intangir

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Aug 14, 2008
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Sorry boys you have me on the McCagg slander train. Read this if you want to roll on the floor laughing:


He compares Laine to Mario and says he's not far off his level. This article is gold from top to bottom. Reminds me of a certain Slaf vs. Wright debate, even if Matthews and Laine were far superior prospects.

There's no need to "slander" him, McCagg's rankings suck, plain and simple. He gets weird hard-ons on two-way/grinding players with above-average hockey IQ every year, and also big, rangy defensemen from the WHL.

He gets so bad about it, so caught up in his own narrative that he begins ranking them way too high (cue-in those annoying MAD ads about driving high, wayyyyy too high) and drastically undervalues high-level thinkers of the game with some two-way flaws, or softer, yet uber-skilled guys like Caufield.

I do enjoy McCagg's write-ups though. As long as you forego the scouting reports about guys he isn't level-headed with and understand that he overestimates two-way play / grinding, and underestimates high-end smarts / skills, and so adjust your reading accordingly, he is generally a good source of info to read on prospects and get acquainted with them at the beginning of the year or so.

But yeah, you can still skip his lists without any problems whatsoever. Even if he is supposed to have "sources" within the team.

Oh yeah, and while I'm not as averse to drafting Slafkovsky as others on this board, I still think he would be a sub-optimal pick at #1 overall.

I appreciate his great shot, sweet release, will to battle for and find prime scoring positions, respect his hockey IQ, his board work and his physicality, as well as his very unique blend of size/skating + smooth hands, but Slafkovsky plain isn't a creative player in the offensive zone, nor is he a primary play-driver, which could ultimately limit his offensive potential in the NHL.

And if you look at our team's makeup you must surely know by now that what we need most isn't a goalscoring winger with size/speed/power elements to his game that shows his full potential when playing with a strong playmaker, but rather that very playmaker that keeps defenses honest and guessing as to where the puck will end up (which we haven't had since probably Koivu/Kovalev and more recently Suzuki, although the latter hasn't fully matured yet).

Then we look at mental aptitude, and Slafkovsky suddenly doesn't shine as much. His vision is only average/above-average right now for an NHLer (which isn't to say it can't/won't improve, but it is generally the single hardest attribute to majorly improve as a prospect / young pro and should factor in on our 42-years-in-the-making #1 overall draft pick decision).

Juraj also doesn't anticipate plays the way you would wish a top-line forward would (his positioning is pretty freaking good, but anticipation is another story), and he is not versed enough in playmaking ability to be a versatile threat in the offensive zone (biggest drawback to his play and also biggest reason why I don't think we will draft him, dominant Olympics/WC or no). His "manipulation" skills, AKA hiding his intentions from defensive players through dekes, feints, head fakes, pivots, etc., while not bad, are also far from elite.

Worse, not only is Slafkovsky NOT a "dual threat" if we will, but he also isn't anything to write home about defensively. Don't get me wrong, Slaf isn't a wreck defensively, and he will backcheck with energy, pressure the puck carrier on the boards and win more than his fair share of 50/50 puck battles, but aside from that he has very underwhelming defensive traits. He is plain not good at closing passing lanes (particularly cross-ice seams, killed his team's momentum a few times in Liiga), and frankly has trouble figuring out how to best apply pressure when the other team is cycling the puck.

Of all his defensive weaknesses, the timing of his defensive pressure is probably the worst. From the games I've watched in the Liiga, Slafkovsky was either late in his tracking/anticipating of the play, which let his marks create space for themselves to make passes/keep the offensive pressure on, or he committed too early in his coverage, the defenseman quickly making a pass as he tries to run them over / separate the puck from them physically, and then the opposing team had more ice to exploit because Slafkovsky was too aggressive and got caught. But he did get better at it over the course of the year, so maybe there is something there.

Anyways, even after all that I said I still like Slafkovsky, I really do, and have him fourth on my list, after Wright, Cooley and Nemec. But because of his lack of ++ hockey IQ, lackluster playmaking/passing game, and also because he is not a great defensive player I not only think that we should not draft him first overall, but also that Shane Wright and Logan Cooley (probably Nemec, Jiricek, and Miroschnichenko too for that matter) have more potential than him at the NHL level in my opinion.
 
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Spearmint Rhino

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Sep 17, 2013
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Less than a month left. Please pick a C. Please pick a C. Please pick a C.
Need one of these to ffwd to the draft

And also so I can drop an air biscuit in my boss’s face

1654759314887.jpeg
 

Rob Sense

Registered User
Apr 26, 2015
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@Schooner Guy

I can give Slaf credit. He looked good at times. But you are the one that brought up tournament production. So obviously that comes with the caveat that he only produced against non-hockey countries. If you want to keep pointing out that he outscored Barzal, I’ll point out he only did that thanks to playing France, Italy and Kazakhstan.

He’s a great young player. There’s a reason he’s going Top 5. But there’s also plenty of reasons not to take him 1st.
Some think the Slak the Kazak killer is the second coming of Jaromir Jagr.
 

Mandala

Registered User
Dec 7, 2006
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There's no need to "slander" him, McCagg's rankings suck, plain and simple. He gets weird hard-ons on two-way/grinding players with above-average hockey IQ every year, and also big, rangy defensemen from the WHL.

He gets so bad about it, so caught up in his own narrative that he begins ranking them way too high (cue-in those annoying MAD ads about driving high, wayyyyy too high) and drastically undervalues high-level thinkers of the game with some two-way flaws, or softer, yet uber-skilled guys like Caufield.

I do enjoy McCagg's write-ups though. As long as you forego the scouting reports about guys he isn't level-headed with and understand that he overestimates two-way play / grinding, and underestimates high-end smarts / skills, and so adjust your reading accordingly, he is generally a good source of info to read on prospects and get acquainted with them at the beginning of the year or so.

But yeah, you can still skip his lists without any problems whatsoever. Even if he is supposed to have "sources" within the team.

Oh yeah, and while I'm not as averse to drafting Slafkovsky as others on this board, I still think he would be a sub-optimal pick at #1 overall.

I appreciate his great shot, sweet release, will to battle for and find prime scoring positions, respect his hockey IQ, his board work and his physicality, as well as his very unique blend of size/skating + smooth hands, but Slafkovsky plain isn't a creative player in the offensive zone, nor is he a primary play-driver, which could ultimately limit his offensive potential in the NHL.

And if you look at our team's makeup you must surely know by now that what we need most isn't a goalscoring winger with size/speed/power elements to his game that shows his full potential when playing with a strong playmaker, but rather that very playmaker that keeps defenses honest and guessing as to where the puck will end up (which we haven't had since probably Koivu/Kovalev and more recently Suzuki, although the latter hasn't fully matured yet).

Then we look at mental aptitude, and Slafkovsky suddenly doesn't shine as much. His vision is only average/above-average right now for an NHLer (which isn't to say it can't/won't improve, but it is generally the single hardest attribute to majorly improve as a prospect / young pro and should factor in on our 42-years-in-the-making #1 overall draft pick decision).

Juraj also doesn't anticipate plays the way you would wish a top-line forward would (his positioning is pretty freaking good, but anticipation is another story), and he is not versed enough in playmaking ability to be a versatile threat in the offensive zone (biggest drawback to his play and also biggest reason why I don't think we will draft him, dominant Olympics/WC or no). His "manipulation" skills, AKA hiding his intentions from defensive players through dekes, feints, head fakes, pivots, etc., while not bad, are also far from elite.

Worse, not only is Slafkovsky NOT a "dual threat" if we will, but he also isn't anything to write home about defensively. Don't get me wrong, Slaf isn't a wreck defensively, and he will backcheck with energy, pressure the puck carrier on the boards and win more than his fair share of 50/50 puck battles, but aside from that he has very underwhelming defensive traits. He is plain not good at closing passing lanes (particularly cross-ice seams, killed his team's momentum a few times in Liiga), and frankly has trouble figuring out how to best apply pressure when the other team is cycling the puck.

Of all his defensive weaknesses, the timing of his defensive pressure is probably the worst. From the games I've watched in the Liiga, Slafkovsky was either late in his tracking/anticipating of the play, which let his marks create space for themselves to make passes/keep the offensive pressure on, or he committed too early in his coverage, the defenseman quickly making a pass as he tries to run them over / separate the puck from them physically, and then the opposing team had more ice to exploit because Slafkovsky was too aggressive and got caught. But he did get better at it over the course of the year, so maybe there is something there.

Anyways, even after all that I said I still like Slafkovsky, I really do, and have him fourth on my list, after Wright, Cooley and Nemec. But because of his lack of ++ hockey IQ, lackluster playmaking/passing game, and also because he is not a great defensive player I not only think that we should not draft him first overall, but also that Shane Wright and Logan Cooley (probably Nemec, Jiricek, and Miroschnichenko too for that matter) have more potential than him at the NHL level in my opinion.
This reads like a scout report! Thanks!
 

Schooner Guy

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Jun 23, 2006
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@Schooner Guy

I can give Slaf credit. He looked good at times. But you are the one that brought up tournament production. So obviously that comes with the caveat that he only produced against non-hockey countries. If you want to keep pointing out that he outscored Barzal, I’ll point out he only did that thanks to playing France, Italy and Kazakhstan.

He’s a great young player. There’s a reason he’s going Top 5. But there’s also plenty of reasons not to take him 1st.
But Barzal played against the same teams. Actually Barzal had it better because he got to play vs Slovakia and didn't have to play vs Canada. Not to mention Barzal got two extra games in. Also you're implying that Slaf didn't perform against the stronger countries but he had a very strong game against Canada and had 5 shots against an NHL defense. Not to mention he had two points in an elimination game vs Denmark (one of those non-traditional countries who had Ehlers) that helped Slovakia advance to QFs. Denmark beat Canada the day before.

This wasn't the WU18 where 5ft11 Kulich looked like a giant and even 5ft9 Kemell looked big. This wasn't the WJC where we're not supposed to hold a draft eligible's performance against them if they don't produce. This was the Worlds. Kazakhstan had a team full of players from the KHL. No matter how much you try to beat down his performance at this tournament, NHL scouts (many already had him in their top 2 were very impressed by his play as were hockey analysts covering the tournament.

I'm not advocating taking him 1st but he's given teams reason to think about it. This seems to really bother you.
 
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Colezuki

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Apr 27, 2009
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Sorry boys you have me on the McCagg slander train. Read this if you want to roll on the floor laughing:


He compares Laine to Mario and says he's not far off his level. This article is gold from top to bottom. Reminds me of a certain Slaf vs. Wright debate, even if Matthews and Laine were far superior prospects.
I love this particular quote
"I can't honestly recall scouting a forward over 6-4 with a skill set as similar to Mario's as Laine's," says McCagg. "The way he creates space when he has the puck, his hands, his release, his shot, his vision...maybe he's not quite at Mario's level...but he's not that far off. He's a tier above Rick Nash at the same age...and as we know both Nash and Mario were first overall picks. I have a hard time thinking anyone should be drafted ahead of him even if I really like Matthews a lot...I see a future 50-goal NHL scorer, maybe a 60-goal guy. I don't see that same upside with Matthews."


But Barzal played against the same teams. Actually Barzal had it better because he got to play vs Slovakia and didn't have to play vs Canada. Not to mention Barzal got two extra games in. Also you're implying that Slaf didn't perform against the stronger countries but he had a very strong game against Canada and had 5 shots against an NHL defense. Not to mention he had two points in an elimination game vs Denmark (one of those non-traditional countries who had Ehlers) that helped Slovakia advance to QFs. Denmark beat Canada the day before.
This wasn't the WU18 where 5ft11 Kulich looked like a giant and even 5ft9 Kemell looked big. This wasn't the WJC where we're not supposed to hold a draft eligible's performance against them if they don't produce. This was the Worlds. Kazakhstan had a team full of players from the KHL. No matter how much you try to beat down his performance at this tournament, NHL scouts (many already had him in their top 2 were very impressed by his play as were hockey analysts covering the tournament.

I'm not advocating taking him 1st but he's given teams reason to think about it. This seems to really bother you.
Slaf is agreat prospect, if we take him first we regret it for a decade
 
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WeThreeKings

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But Barzal played against the same teams. Actually Barzal had it better because he got to play vs Slovakia and didn't have to play vs Canada. Not to mention Barzal got two extra games in. Also you're implying that Slaf didn't perform against the stronger countries but he had a very strong game against Canada and had 5 shots against an NHL defense. Not to mention he had two points in an elimination game vs Denmark (one of those non-traditional countries who had Ehlers) that helped Slovakia advance to QFs. Denmark beat Canada the day before.

This wasn't the WU18 where 5ft11 Kulich looked like a giant and even 5ft9 Kemell looked big. This wasn't the WJC where we're not supposed to hold a draft eligible's performance against them if they don't produce. This was the Worlds. Kazakhstan had a team full of players from the KHL. No matter how much you try to beat down his performance at this tournament, NHL scouts (many already had him in their top 2 were very impressed by his play as were hockey analysts covering the tournament.

I'm not advocating taking him 1st but he's given teams reason to think about it. This seems to really bother you.

His worlds were impressive but so were Kakko's.. 6 goals 7 pts in 10 games. 6'3" frame and a bunch more production in the Liiga.

That has not translated into any measurable success at the NHL level to date. So while Slaf's two tournaments have hinted at a higher upside than his Liiga numbers, we still have to make sure we don't push the recency effect of the Worlds too much.

The thing is that short tournaments should never lead to a strong take one way or another; otherwise you'd be thinking Caufield was a bust for his WJC play despite his strong play in the NCAA.

Our scouts, if they really like Slaf, need to do a thorough dive into Slaf's liiga play and determine why he was unable to do what basically any other -first round- prospect from the Liiga has been able to do. The same way we have to contextualize Shane Wrights numbers.

Of course we've landed into an area where Slaf's world championships are simultaneously overrated and underrated.
 

Rob Sense

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Apr 26, 2015
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His worlds were impressive but so were Kakko's.. 6 goals 7 pts in 10 games. 6'3" frame and a bunch more production in the Liiga.

That has not translated into any measurable success at the NHL level to date. So while Slaf's two tournaments have hinted at a higher upside than his Liiga numbers, we still have to make sure we don't push the recency effect of the Worlds too much.

The thing is that short tournaments should never lead to a strong take one way or another; otherwise you'd be thinking Caufield was a bust for his WJC play despite his strong play in the NCAA.

Our scouts, if they really like Slaf, need to do a thorough dive into Slaf's liiga play and determine why he was unable to do what basically any other -first round- prospect from the Liiga has been able to do. The same way we have to contextualize Shane Wrights numbers.

Of course we've landed into an area where Slaf's world championships are simultaneously overrated and underrated.
Not only Caufield but Suzuki did not shine in WJC. A player should be judged on their complete development process and how they perform in their respective leagues. Sure tournaments are important however a 9-1 blowout where someone scores 3 goals is not a career! (re Armia)
 

WeThreeKings

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Not only Caufield but Suzuki did not shine in WJC. A player should be judged on their complete development and how they perform in their respective leagues. Sure tournaments are important however a 9-1 blowout where someone scores 3 goals is not a career! (re Armia)

Pacioretty also had a terrible WJC.. while Kristo was an absolute beast.
 

WinterLion

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le_sean

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But Barzal played against the same teams. Actually Barzal had it better because he got to play vs Slovakia and didn't have to play vs Canada. Not to mention Barzal got two extra games in. Also you're implying that Slaf didn't perform against the stronger countries but he had a very strong game against Canada and had 5 shots against an NHL defense. Not to mention he had two points in an elimination game vs Denmark (one of those non-traditional countries who had Ehlers) that helped Slovakia advance to QFs. Denmark beat Canada the day before.

This wasn't the WU18 where 5ft11 Kulich looked like a giant and even 5ft9 Kemell looked big. This wasn't the WJC where we're not supposed to hold a draft eligible's performance against them if they don't produce. This was the Worlds. Kazakhstan had a team full of players from the KHL. No matter how much you try to beat down his performance at this tournament, NHL scouts (many already had him in their top 2 were very impressed by his play as were hockey analysts covering the tournament.

I'm not advocating taking him 1st but he's given teams reason to think about it. This seems to really bother you.
Why do you keep bringing up Barzal like it’s some kind of proof that Slaf is great? Do you think Roman Cervenka is better than Barzal? Is Mikko Lehtonen better than Thomas Chabot? Is Denis Malgin better than David Pastrnak?

Short tournaments prove nothing. He played well, but it wasn’t enough to erase his lacklustre Liiga season.
 

morhilane

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Feb 28, 2021
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I love this particular quote
"I can't honestly recall scouting a forward over 6-4 with a skill set as similar to Mario's as Laine's," says McCagg. "The way he creates space when he has the puck, his hands, his release, his shot, his vision...maybe he's not quite at Mario's level...but he's not that far off. He's a tier above Rick Nash at the same age...and as we know both Nash and Mario were first overall picks. I have a hard time thinking anyone should be drafted ahead of him even if I really like Matthews a lot...I see a future 50-goal NHL scorer, maybe a 60-goal guy. I don't see that same upside with Matthews."
The last line is golden, considering Matthews just had a 60 goals season.
 

Rob Sense

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Apr 26, 2015
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All the hype about the Olympics is exactly that. No NHLers played. Slak scored half his goals in loses that were not even close (Finland and Sweden). He did get the game winner vs USA and scored 2 in a 4-0 win vs Sweden. This is his mythical performance akin to walking on water and making him the next coming of Jagr??? Give me a break. He had 10 points in 33 games in Liiga. That should have more bearing in anyone's decision.
 

MarkovsKnee

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Kevin Korchinski impresses me a lot. His puckhandling and passing are superb, but what impresses me the most is how he oftens moves to displace defensive boxes on offense. Pretty sure he'll be a good offensive D in the pros.
He'll be great.

He's been really good in these playoffs, including defensively. He's only 17 too.

He's going to be quite the playmaking D. Effortless skills.
 

WeThreeKings

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He'll be great.

He's been really good in these playoffs, including defensively. He's only 17 too.

He's going to be quite the playmaking D. Effortless skills.

Can't help but want Schaefer too.. he's got a lot of jam and enough offensive skill. Just a matter of whether he gets overdrafted due to his playoff performance.
 

MarkovsKnee

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Can't help but want Schaefer too.. he's got a lot of jam and enough offensive skill. Just a matter of whether he gets overdrafted due to his playoff performance.
Schaefer and Guhle were going hard at each other physically last night. It was pretty awesome.

But, yes, I wonder if someone grabs him in 1st or 2nd round due to his playoffs. I wouldn't take him before Edmonton's pick, but NHL GMs love big boys that play like he does.

Wouldn't be surprised if Arizona grabs him with their plethora of picks in 25-50 range.
 

le_sean

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Point projection for Shane Wright at 22, 23, 24 years old? Is he a 70-point/30-goal player or more of a 60-point or 80-point guy? Where do you see him ending up in his prime point wise? — Tyler N.

Giving specific point projections is usually asking for trouble, but what the heck. I think 30 goals/70 points who plays 18-20 minutes a game is in the cards for sure and I would argue is what I would say is his expected prime projection. This is where I got hung up on Wright vs. Slafkovsky. I see Slafkovsky as a potential 35-40 goal 70-80 point wing. I see Wright as a potential 60-70 point center.


So Pronman believes the difference of 10 points is a reason to place a winger 3 spots ahead of a two-way centre?
 
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