2022-2023Trade Block

EvenSteven

Registered User
Sep 3, 2009
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I can say one thing, if that were to happen, all hell would break loose. That type of deal or shenanigans would likely result in sanctions. At least with the other types of “I’ll deal X player to you this year and you deal Y player to me the following year” matches competitive cycles Where those teams would be trading for players during their championship runs.

This proposed deal would essentially be scamming an extra 1st round pick from the league. I cannot see the league allowing this type of trading to take place where comp picks are involved. The comp pick is in place to compensated for the loss of the player. In this scenario, there is no loss of the player at all, yet the pick still gets awarded.
Is there a rule against it? If so, and it happens anyway, then sanctions should apply.

But if there is a rule against it, I haven’t heard about it. Though there was a greater time frame between trades, it did happen with Tortora.

So if there’s no rule against it, then like other situations where rules were changed as a result of “fishy” deals (13 month rule and two part deals for example), if it happens and the league doesn’t like it, they’ll create a rule against it.
 

HockeyPops

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Aug 20, 2018
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With Tortora, did it start with him not reporting and the awarding of a compensation pick from the league though?
 

OMG67

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Sep 1, 2013
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With Tortora, did it start with him not reporting and the awarding of a compensation pick from the league though?

Exactly. The spirit of that rule is specifically so players aren’t rented. AKA Player “A” goes to Team “B” for a Championship run and then the same player is traded back to the original team for their Championship run. Essentially renting a player. If this Hage scenario happens then this isn’t a situation where a player is rented. It is a situation where a team has fraudulently seized a draft pick that is specifically designed to compensate a team for losing the player, not delaying the player reporting.

You cannot have situations presented in every law or rule that specifically applies. In other words, you cannot think of every possible loophole and address it. The Rue Book would be 14,000 pages! However, the League has the power to DENY any trade. In this case, it would be beyond obvious that a team swindled a compensation pick out of the League and the other 18 teams not involved would be outraged. The League would need to figure it out. I would be shocked if the League allowed that trade with that timing.
 
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OHL4Life

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Sep 6, 2017
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I find it hard to believe an agent would broadcast personal family business when it comes to young prospects and the direction they are taking going forward. I just can't see the family being happy with an agent talking so loosely. I could be wrong though.
the agent does what the family wants. the family wanted to go to the ohl but wanted to avoid certain teams. the initial commitment to chicago was for a year and a year only. the agent needs to communicate that to teams to ensure that teams know exactly what the plan is/was. everyone knows there is never any promises in life but they try to be as honest and communicate the families/players thoughts as honest as possible

I’m honestly surprised that kirchener moved him, but I bet it has as much to do with their second round pick not coming as hage not coming. they thought they had a top pick lined up with their second round american and him not reporting probably meant that they couldn’t afford to wait on hage.
 

bobber

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Jan 21, 2013
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Kitchener Ontario
the agent does what the family wants. the family wanted to go to the ohl but wanted to avoid certain teams. the initial commitment to chicago was for a year and a year only. the agent needs to communicate that to teams to ensure that teams know exactly what the plan is/was. everyone knows there is never any promises in life but they try to be as honest and communicate the families/players thoughts as honest as possib

the agent does what the family wants. the family wanted to go to the ohl but wanted to avoid certain teams. the initial commitment to chicago was for a year and a year only. the agent needs to communicate that to teams to ensure that teams know exactly what the plan is/was. everyone knows there is never any promises in life but they try to be as honest and communicate the families/players thoughts as honest as possible

I’m honestly surprised that kirchener moved him, but I bet it has as much to do with their second round pick not coming as hage not coming. they thought they had a top pick lined up with their second round american and him not reporting probably meant that they couldn’t afford to wait on hage .
Personally, I doubt the Rangers would ever give up the rights to Hage after seeing him in the rookie camp if they thought he would eventually end up in KW. He is just that talented. They took a flyer on him and found out he was serious about playing in Chicago. This triggered the trade. My point on agents still stands. Other than an agent talking to the powers that be in the OHL or other hockey ops most would not spill the beans on an individual and what their future plans are outside hockey. They wouldn't be in business to long in my opinion. Maybe Hage had another team he wanted to play for in the OHL when the Rangers grabbed him. Obviously by the picks involved in the trade with the Wolves there wasn't much interest for some reason. I think most teams knew Hage was serious about his intentions and stayed out of the issue. I was told by a certain poster that I was Gordie Howe's peewee coach, so I have been out of the loop for decades. Take what I say with a grain of salt.
 

OHL4Life

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Sep 6, 2017
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Personally, I doubt the Rangers would ever give up the rights to Hage after seeing him in the rookie camp if they thought he would eventually end up in KW. He is just that talented. They took a flyer on him and found out he was serious about playing in Chicago. This triggered the trade. My point on agents still stands. Other than an agent talking to the powers that be in the OHL or other hockey ops most would not spill the beans on an individual and what their future plans are outside hockey. They wouldn't be in business to long in my opinion. Maybe Hage had another team he wanted to play for in the OHL when the Rangers grabbed him. Obviously by the picks involved in the trade with the Wolves there wasn't much interest for some reason. I think most teams knew Hage was serious about his intentions and stayed out of the issue. I was told by a certain poster that I was Gordie Howe's peewee coach, so I have been out of the loop for decades. Take what I say with a grain of salt.
chicago thing was gonig down either way. kitchener would not have been surprised. it was posted on here ahead of the draft, the kid didnt want teams to be in the dark on his plans. ill still say the initial plan kitchener had was that they were getting a 1st round pick in longlace, but he bailed, so now they couldnt risk it, if longlace signed, i bet theres no trade. i would be very surprised if the kid goes to sudbury, so his chicago intentions are a moot point at this stage.
 

bobber

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Jan 21, 2013
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Kitchener Ontario
chicago thing was gonig down either way. kitchener would not have been surprised. it was posted on here ahead of the draft, the kid didnt want teams to be in the dark on his plans. ill still say the initial plan kitchener had was that they were getting a 1st round pick in longlace, but he bailed, so now they couldnt risk it, if longlace signed, i bet theres no trade. i would be very surprised if the kid goes to sudbury, so his chicago intentions are a moot point at this stage.
Kids name is Longacre. Second everyone interested knew Hage's intentions before the draft. Most teams are willing to take a flyer on them (London) knowing they might not come immediately. So no surprise. Kitchener knew what the deal was going in. I met a fellow I worked with back in my working days today at the mall today. His son played goal for Ottawa and Columbus later on. He was just made head goalie scout for the Oilers now. His grandson (a 3rd ranked US goalie) was drafted by Kingston. He will go to Kingston eventually but will play for Little Caesars Org this season. Longacre could still end up in KW eventually. Kitchener's 3rd rounder was considered a high 2nd so they have that from the draft.
 

OHL4Life

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Sep 6, 2017
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Kids name is Longacre. Second everyone interested knew Hage's intentions before the draft. Most teams are willing to take a flyer on them (London) knowing they might not come immediately. So no surprise. Kitchener knew what the deal was going in. I met a fellow I worked with back in my working days today at the mall today. His son played goal for Ottawa and Columbus later on. He was just made head goalie scout for the Oilers now. His grandson (a 3rd ranked US goalie) was drafted by Kingston. He will go to Kingston eventually but will play for Little Caesars Org this season. Longacre could still end up in KW eventually. Kitchener's 3rd rounder was considered a high 2nd so they have that from the draft.
great for all involved
 

dirty12

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Mar 6, 2015
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I can say one thing, if that were to happen, all hell would break loose. That type of deal or shenanigans would likely result in sanctions. At least with the other types of “I’ll deal X player to you this year and you deal Y player to me the following year” matches competitive cycles Where those teams would be trading for players during their championship runs.

This proposed deal would essentially be scamming an extra 1st round pick from the league. I cannot see the league allowing this type of trading to take place where comp picks are involved. The comp pick is in place to compensated for the loss of the player. In this scenario, there is no loss of the player at all, yet the pick still gets awarded.
I don’t imagine Hage ends back up in Kitchener, but see Niagara-Oshawa (Studnicka-Tommasino-Castle), looks like a pre-conceived 3-part deal where Oshawa gets the benefit of the comp pick to me. Two over pays ensuring a commitment to another deal?
 
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EvenSteven

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Sep 3, 2009
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With Tortora, did it start with him not reporting and the awarding of a compensation pick from the league though?
Yes. Tortora wouldn’t sign with Barrie. His rights were dealt to Kitchener and Barrie was awarded a comp pick the following year.

A couple years later, Tortora wished to play in the OHL but only for Barrie citing his wish to play for Dale Hawerchuk. So the Rangers dealt his rights back to Barrie.

Exactly. The spirit of that rule is specifically so players aren’t rented. AKA Player “A” goes to Team “B” for a Championship run and then the same player is traded back to the original team for their Championship run. Essentially renting a player. If this Hage scenario happens then this isn’t a situation where a player is rented. It is a situation where a team has fraudulently seized a draft pick that is specifically designed to compensate a team for losing the player, not delaying the player reporting.

You cannot have situations presented in every law or rule that specifically applies. In other words, you cannot think of every possible loophole and address it. The Rue Book would be 14,000 pages! However, the League has the power to DENY any trade. In this case, it would be beyond obvious that a team swindled a compensation pick out of the League and the other 18 teams not involved would be outraged. The League would need to figure it out. I would be shocked if the League allowed that trade with that timing.
Sure there’s the loss of a player. Hage was traded to Sudbury, hence the comp pick. What Sudbury does with his rights after the fact is their choice.

Hage wouldn’t be “gifted” back to Kitchener. The Rangers would have to pay a price to get Hage back. Perhaps a return of the comp picks x 2.

When the dust settles, the Rangers have Hage
at 17 years old at a comparable Fantilli price and Sudbury is happy earning a package of picks without actually giving up much to begin with.

Let’s go back to 2010. Mississauga made out like bandits via Ebert/Rychel. They traded defected player Ebert to Windsor for a package of picks and were awarded a compensation 1st rounder the following year. Then, they traded for Kerby Rychel from Barrie. This all went down on the SAME DAY! yet they were still awarded the comp pick the following year even though they were never really without a 1st rounder. The Rangers, on the other hand, will be without a 1st rounder for 13+ months.

But Missy was in pretty much in the same position that I suggest could happen with a Hage back to Kitchener deal.

Missy: 1st rounder Rychel (who they gave up assets for) plus 2x1sts the following year.

Rangers: 1st rounder Hage (who they’d give up assets for) plus 2x1sts the following year.

The only difference is that there was a third team involved in that case. At the end of the day, Missy was able to have their cake and eat it too, so to speak. Was there outcry there? Maybe. But no rules were broken. And if it was such a bad thing, wouldn’t they have changed the rules / closed the loophole back then?

Dave Branch is all about getting the best players possible into this league. They’ve changed the rules over the years to ensure that that happens. The last thing Dave Branch is going to do is veto a legal trade that would bring Hage into his league only to watch him go the NCAA route.

If Hage decides he wants to play in the OHL, and states he’ll only play for Kitchener, there’s nothing standing in the way of Sudbury trading his rights back to Kitchener once 13 months have passed.

No rules broken. No sanctions.
 
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HockeyPops

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Aug 20, 2018
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If you play more than 10 games you are automatically A card.
If you play fewer than that but at least 10 games at a lower level (ie. Junior A) then you are on a B card.
 
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StormWatcher

Registered User
Nov 26, 2013
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Not sure if you mean on the market right now or sometime this season but for Oshawa I say...

Brett Harrison
Leyton Moore

Both are probably trade deadline players
Yes please.... Guelph would be a good landing place. We are in desperate need of a solid LD for the top 4, and who could say no to Brett Harrison? George likes package deals at the deadline.
 

jamemcca

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Oct 6, 2014
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Yes. Tortora wouldn’t sign with Barrie. His rights were dealt to Kitchener and Barrie was awarded a comp pick the following year.

A couple years later, Tortora wished to play in the OHL but only for Barrie citing his wish to play for Dale Hawerchuk. So the Rangers dealt his rights back to Barrie.


Sure there’s the loss of a player. Hage was traded to Sudbury, hence the comp pick. What Sudbury does with his rights after the fact is their choice.

Hage wouldn’t be “gifted” back to Kitchener. The Rangers would have to pay a price to get Hage back. Perhaps a return of the comp picks x 2.

When the dust settles, the Rangers have Hage
at 17 years old at a comparable Fantilli price and Sudbury is happy earning a package of picks without actually giving up much to begin with.

Let’s go back to 2010. Mississauga made out like bandits via Ebert/Rychel. They traded defected player Ebert to Windsor for a package of picks and were awarded a compensation 1st rounder the following year. Then, they traded for Kerby Rychel from Barrie. This all went down on the SAME DAY! yet they were still awarded the comp pick the following year even though they were never really without a 1st rounder. The Rangers, on the other hand, will be without a 1st rounder for 13+ months.

But Missy was in pretty much in the same position that I suggest could happen with a Hage back to Kitchener deal.

Missy: 1st rounder Rychel (who they gave up assets for) plus 2x1sts the following year.

Rangers: 1st rounder Hage (who they’d give up assets for) plus 2x1sts the following year.

The only difference is that there was a third team involved in that case. At the end of the day, Missy was able to have their cake and eat it too, so to speak. Was there outcry there? Maybe. But no rules were broken. And if it was such a bad thing, wouldn’t they have changed the rules / closed the loophole back then?

Dave Branch is all about getting the best players possible into this league. They’ve changed the rules over the years to ensure that that happens. The last thing Dave Branch is going to do is veto a legal trade that would bring Hage into his league only to watch him go the NCAA route.

If Hage decides he wants to play in the OHL, and states he’ll only play for Kitchener, there’s nothing standing in the way of Sudbury trading his rights back to Kitchener once 13 months have passed.

No rules broken. No sanctions.
They don’t get two first round picks next year because of it. They get one as compensation as the other one they would have had anyway
 
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Patricia

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Aug 25, 2018
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North Bay seems like a solid contender this year - anybody here have any thoughts about potential deals for the Battalion to make, either now, or at the deadline?!? Part of me says that every team could use more firepower up front to balance the attack, some sandpaper and a big, mobile defenceman or two. Just don't know who would be available that could fit the mold of what Adam Dennis and Company have built in the Bay right now....
 

Generalsupdates

@GeneralsUpdates on Twitter
Sep 4, 2017
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If you play more than 10 games you are automatically A card.
If you play fewer than that but at least 10 games at a lower level (ie. Junior A) then you are on a B card.
I thought it was more than 5 games (but games when you're missing guys because of World Juniors or suspensions don't count towards it)
 

EvenSteven

Registered User
Sep 3, 2009
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They don’t get two first round picks next year because of it. They get one as compensation as the other one they would have had anyway
That’s sort of what I was getting at. I didn’t word it properly. Should have said a 2nd 1st rounder next year instead of 2x1sts next year.

All good!
 
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OMG67

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Sep 1, 2013
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No HP is correct. It is 10 games and you are also correct as games played during the WJT don't count towards the total.

I Believe once a player qualifies for the A card, they remain A card players. The card is assigned for the subsequent seasons once they dress for their first regular season game. Is that correct?
 

OHL4Life

Registered User
Sep 6, 2017
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I Believe once a player qualifies for the A card, they remain A card players. The card is assigned for the subsequent seasons once they dress for their first regular season game. Is that correct?
yup
 
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HockeyPops

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Aug 20, 2018
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Yes, they would have to go through waivers if they were on an A card the previous season.
 
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Devin

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Jul 25, 2018
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Might have been mentioned but I’m not gonna scroll up.

As of now names worth noting that are for sure on the market now or TDL are

Arcuri
Winterton
Morrison
Hayes
Harrison
Bloom
Mintyukov

Possibly:

Johnston
Maggio

All in all, Atleast more options than last year but with this being the reality if I’m a team that’s going in I’m making my trades as early as I can …

Then again, missy thinks they will be good but they only have 4 players on their team so maybe there’s a surprise there

Whoever can outbid who for the biggest fish
 

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