Fantomas
Registered User
- Aug 7, 2012
- 13,306
- 6,641
Good luck with your brilliant "dictator" theories. I hope you get many subscribers to your newsletter.
WJC: 2021 Russia Roster Talk
- Thread starter enj92
- Start date
Good luck with your brilliant "dictator" theories. I hope you get many subscribers to your newsletter.
No theories, Hockey Canada, Hockey USA are both dictatorships, FHR is a liberal democracy with tycoons attached to it. Not so sure about European federations.
If you are saying that this is just junior hockey, no need to go out and commit suicide, I'll drink to that! But if you are saying that everything is ok with Russian hockey, no it is not! It is completely effed up! Given the size of the country, and the fact that kids can regularly play hockey outdoors for 5 months a year in about 80% of the country, how is it ok that the teams, junior and senior, regularly place in 3rd or 4th position, despite all the resources at hand? It appears that you live in the USA, where they are producing great hockey players that grow up in tropical beach towns (Florida, California) or the burning desert (Arizona), where 99% of youth have never even seen a pair of skates up close, much less ever put a pair on their feet! From a competitive standpoint, if competition is at all of interest, Russian hockey is in desperately bad shape!.
I certainly disagree. While I admit we’re not dominating the world hockey, we are definitely not in a ‘desperately bad shape’. We are okay, not better, not worse.
If you look at the last 5 years results, it supports my point:
Last Olympics - Gold (I know it’s not best on best but it’s still a win)
Last youth Olympics - Gold
Last 5 WHC - 4 medals
Last 5 U20 WHC - 3 medals
This is a fine collection - not great, not terrible.
The future appears to be promising too - the next couple junior teams are expected to be much better with some potential superstars.
As for the infrastructure, you can’t deny the number of rinks and young players have increased, you can’t deny the creation of MHL is a plus, the students league is a plus.
So, let’s not get too depressed over this failure, there’s a light at the end of the tunnel
Seriously, were you “all is lost” guys preaching the same shit last year even we first beat Canada 6-0, then were leading 3-1 in the GMG and lost the game by a goal ? Or maybe the last world championships where we rolled over everyone except one terrible game ? I didn’t see you all screaming “we are desperately bad”
Night_Vole
Registered User
Development is a persistent problem, there's rarely enough good dmen and I can't recall the last world class centre we produced, Kuznetsov I guess. It's hard to play a consistent possession game when all you have are wingers.
That's why I really don't like like Larionov because his expectations aren't grounded in reality. To have success with such a group u need to play at a fast pace and generate chaos to get lots of odd man rushes.
That's why I really like Bragin, because despite his faults, at least he was realistic about what he had to work with and always got the boys to play hard.
I can live with results like last year, and when they lost the gold to the Finns cause it could have easily gone the other way and they left it all out on the ice. This year was just embarassing and an eye sore.
That's why I really don't like like Larionov because his expectations aren't grounded in reality. To have success with such a group u need to play at a fast pace and generate chaos to get lots of odd man rushes.
That's why I really like Bragin, because despite his faults, at least he was realistic about what he had to work with and always got the boys to play hard.
I can live with results like last year, and when they lost the gold to the Finns cause it could have easily gone the other way and they left it all out on the ice. This year was just embarassing and an eye sore.
New pearl from Igor. I have no idea what he is talking about. It's like there is kasha in his head instead of a brain. What are you trying to say???
Игорь Ларионов: «Бороться и обороняться – это не стиль современной сборной России. Ребятам понравилось, что мы предлагали»
Игорь Ларионов: «Бороться и обороняться – это не стиль современной сборной России. Ребятам понравилось, что мы предлагали»
Also, what stings a bit is that we beat the gold medal winner in a game where we looked pretty good. And now here we are..
So Karjala Cup, US game, Sweden game - what was that?? All flukes? Were they that much weaker? What happened?
So Karjala Cup, US game, Sweden game - what was that?? All flukes? Were they that much weaker? What happened?
I think motivation and game plan just didn’t work. Larionov ain’t Bragin when it comes to rallying up the troops
I think team Russia screwed up big time. With Larionov appointment they took one large step back. I honestly think that Bragin's way is the way to go. Just look at how US beat Canada and how Finland won three golds in the last 9 years it is a very fine mix of hustle, size and skill and having a sergeant for a coach. This is not a rocket science - all facts are here. Bragin method was working, with some help Russia could have been here also with 3 golds. Now we brought a new and inexperienced system that has all the hustle removed. You will never win anything with this approach. I mean Czechs took 26 blocks in the game against Russia and it won them the game. I can't imagine Larionov's team ever taking that many blocks one single game because they wanted to have fun. Well, in a short tournament like this there can only be fun when you win and when you lose it is no fun. I am just scared that we will have more of the same next year so there will not be hope. I can guarantee Larionov will not be able to do any better unless he understands this simple concept and changes his concept drastically.
Funny you should say that, because actually, that is exactly what the USA has done - reinvent the old "Soviet Wheel." Art Berglund, who died recently, founded the USA Development program, and he said himself he patterned it after Soviet training methods. Even Herb Brooks, the USA "Miracle on Ice" coach from Lake Placid copied Soviet training methods for a year before the Games in Lake Placid. Nothing wrong with Soviet training methods, but Larionov did not use such methods in training the World Junior team.
No, Yakushev72, please don't. There were 25 Russian mothers who gave birth to 25 proud Russian sons. They were Russian. That is why they had to win. Says so in their lockers, "Мы русские - поэтому мы победим!" (or something along those lines). So yes, don't doubt genetics, never do, the Finns didn't actually win because they haven't been conceived by 25 Russian mothers ...
But, in all honesty, Larionov was a joke. It's not a "Red Machine" anymore, just a red drandulet.
I'm tired of hearing all of this b**ching about the USSR in general, from Larionov, Fetisov and all those fools. They sold their souls to the holy dollar. They bit the hand that gave them their fame and former glory. Larinonov doesn't care at all about this team, if he did, he wouldn't have agreed to take the job. He's a good winemaker? Great. Keep making wine. But stay away from coaching hockey, especially on the national level! Where are his credentials as coach? Why was he chosen? He has shown nothing, zero. Never did I see him talk to his players about strategy during the game. His "strategy" of shooting from the blue line has already managed to baffle many. He just tries to "motivate" the players by instilling chauvinistic/nationalistic rhetoric ("We're Russian, so we'll win") or saying empty things like "we'll score right now", and when he loses he lays the blame on "it's hockey, it's just a game, the referees etc.". He points the arrows away from himself and the system he unfortunately represents.
In short, I hope he won't be coach again. However, this won't solve the problems of the "system", which is corruption. Without a change in Russia's political system, I'm afraid this process of deterioration is bound to go on.
Well, the change in political system should be minor. Just expell the so-called liberals from the government. They brough the western concept of capitalism based corruption and lobbyism to the country.
Anyway, one could be baffled by Larionov's comments who started off with praising soviet hockey that made him a millionaire, the one he hated so much all the time and ends up talking about "25 russian mothers" without breaking a sweat(just proves again how lost those emigrants are with their absurd views). One could be if it wasn't clear he is just an opportunistic cheap talker. And he always was. He was when he crapped on the SU. He is when he is crapping on Russia. A true "liberal". He has no values, but his bank account. I do not trust one word coming out of his mouth. He was harvesting claps in the West for his dumb horror-stories about the SU. He now tried the same in Russia with spewing some nationalistic nonsense, not realizing how out of touch with the russian society he is. He is just trying to catch the wind. There is no substance behind it. He completely failed as coach.
Sadly, according to the ones currently in charge, the "liberals" are evil (even they themselves have probably gone beyond the negative aspects of liberalism and entered hyper-liberalism, i.e. corrupted oligarchical capitalism) and they're the "real Patriots of Russia", while being foreign citizen, having huge bank accounts abroad, etc. In reality, there isn't much of a difference between the "United Russia" "hyperpatriots" and the "liberal opposition", ideologically they're in it for money and power.
The system is corrupt and as such, there isn't concern for quality, just for the "holy dollar". I fully subscribe to your opinion on Larionov as an opportunistic cheap talker who is out there for the cash. If his tenure continues, matters will only get worse for the Junior teams. He isn't a coach, he is a 0 (nol'), nothing.
My post about calling for a UN Genetics Investigation was "tongue in cheek," just a bad joke that apparently didn't land.
I'm not trying to be negative, but the facts don't suggest that things are getting better. I have been hearing for years that next year's generation will be world beaters, but it has never materialized. I understand that Michkov and Mironovchenko will be up in a year or two, but so will generations of Canadians and Americans and Finns, etc. I am skeptical, but I was very optimistic about the prospects of Filatov being coach. He really worked well with the kids, who responded extremely well to his coaching. Then, of course, the Federation decides to go with a big name celebrity like Larionov, who produced a nightmare worse than the coronavirus. Without fundamental structural change, Russia is likely to continue on with its Gold-less march.
Dear Yakushev, I also meant that as a joke.
I know. I took it as such. Actually, it had nothing to do, in my opinion, with genes or muscles. I interpreted it as being a kind of psychological paralysis that occurs, especially among young kids, when you don't really understand what you should do, or what you are supposed to do. The confusion that causes you to hold back and be tentative when you should be "balls to the wall," so to speak. My theory is that that happened because they either did not understand what Larionov was instructing them to do, or more likely, did not have faith or credibility in it.
That could have some truth to it, or they were had some form of cognitive dissonance caused by the fact that they were taught one thing and in came Larionov with his "patriotic Soviet hockey", which can only work if you have true masters playing it and they're probably just not yet not capable of playing like that and possibly feel overwhelmed. It would be interesting to hear what he was actually saying directly to them, but seeing as though they were taking pucks and shooting them from the blue line which I've never seen WJC Russian teams do with such fervour, I'm not sure if it made any sense. Maybe he's a "zaslanniy kazachek" (sent in agent, for the English speakers) working for Canada/the US to break up the Russian game?
No idea.Russia has 1 gold in 18. Remove the last period of the final in 2011 and we have 0. Are we that bad? No. But what is wrong? We simply don't do our research. We do not understand how these tournaments are won and we don't want to learn.
There are 3 nations that are successful in the last 9 years. We can't even summarize why. I summarized it for myself and I can tell two things. Our hustle and tactics are not there. Our boys don't sacrifice themselves to the levels of Finns or Americans sacrificing themselves. Once we can solve those things, team Russia will be successful.
There are 3 nations that are successful in the last 9 years. We can't even summarize why. I summarized it for myself and I can tell two things. Our hustle and tactics are not there. Our boys don't sacrifice themselves to the levels of Finns or Americans sacrificing themselves. Once we can solve those things, team Russia will be successful.
