Prospect Info: 2021 do not draft.

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

So are we discussing:
- Players that have personality and/or legal issues
- Players that aren't good enough to make the NHL
- Players we don't want in the first round
or
- Players we don't want in the first 2 rounds?

I mean if we're looking at this "do not draft" list as anyone not on the board, then the list would be hundreds of players. If we're looking at personality issues, nobody has named one yet for this draft.


In any case, I don't see Stevie picking Clarke at #6, that's about all I got.

Not that I think he would've been drafted at all, but Kai Uchacz would be one for personality issues.

I was looking for "red flag" players in this draft, kinda like him. Thought maybe some posters knew things about players that completely turned them off.

Wasn't intending this to be a "player you don't like", hockey wise.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Waste draft picks on nepotism and most reasonable people aren't going to be happy about it.
It's bullshit.
Sure, it's only the seventh round, but f*** that noise.

Better draft Krissy's boy. That's garbage.

It's funny because a part of the projection on Aucoin is basically NHL blood lines while reaching on a long range NCAA pick. I think the people that are pissed about Kienan Draper should probably wait until you know his junior year before they lose their minds. NHL frame, he needs to work on his skating where he isn't his father, but I am at least curious to see him play at Miami of Ohio and form an opinion over 3 years the same way I do with our other college guys. He might have a lot of work to do, but to act like this kid hasn't been playing hockey his whole life and doesn't have even a small hope of making the league I think is being kind of harsh. It isn't likely as we know with all low round picks, but I think people are going a bit far on this one.

It wouldn't surprise me if former players kids are a group they like, because a lot of the next generation players that do make it have some pretty top level compete drives. They have watched it and know what it takes, I think that is a gamble on their part but we see teams take them in the major sports on this line of thinking. But say we take a flier on Doan's kid or something this year, I can see why some teams do that.

I wouldn't mind targeting Josh Doan with one of our later picks, has a crazy compete level on him.

I don't know that I have DND guys, I mean I guess there are some rare ones. I usually think at some point I am okay with the talent gamble. There are usually just guys I don't want in certain slots. Like picking 6 I am not going to be a Clarke or Eklund guy, picking 9 or 10th I feel differently.

 

[Gniwder]

Not that I think he would've been drafted at all, but Kai Uchacz would be one for personality issues.

I was looking for "red flag" players in this draft, kinda like him. Thought maybe some posters knew things about players that completely turned them off.

Wasn't intending this to be a "player you don't like", hockey wise.

L'Heureux is the only one I'm aware of in the top 100 that has issues. Not sure how he got unsportsmanlike conduct suspension AFTER a game. Multiple suspensions including a crosscheck to the back of a kid's head.

I'd still take him late second round, people here have him higher than that in the mock drafts.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Do not draft lists are one way Stevie can get steals.
Draft a guy that other GMs cross off their list for some stupid reason.

That's also the same logic that got Mitchell Miller drafted by Phoenix.

Or why you draft a Tony DeAngelo even though there's all kinds of red flags about his behavior with teammates.

Or how a team drafts Bryan Fogarty despite obvious problems with substance abuse at a really young age. (RIP)

There's a reason some of these guys are not on some teams draft lists.

 

[jfrank21]

Funny thing about the Miller situation, I live near his hometown. My wife is from there and knows people that teach at the school the kids went to. Talking to them, they feel terrible for Miller. They felt he did his penance and deserved a second chance and was a good kid overall. Same with his lawyer, who actually is married to a friend of mine. There's no doubt he did a terrible thing, but the victim wasnt a saint and there were constant issues with him and his family. The teachers were very happy when that kid moved on from their classrooms. There's no doubt that the family was being 100% vindictive when they ran to the media after he was drafted. And the media was more than happy to drag Miller though the coals, it's the world that we now live in.

 

[MBH]

It's funny because a part of the projection on Aucoin is basically NHL blood lines while reaching on a long range NCAA pick. I think the people that are pissed about Kienan Draper should probably wait until you know his junior year before they lose their minds. NHL frame, he needs to work on his skating where he isn't his father, but I am at least curious to see him play at Miami of Ohio and form an opinion over 3 years the same way I do with our other college guys. He might have a lot of work to do, but to act like this kid hasn't been playing hockey his whole life and doesn't have even a small hope of making the league I think is being kind of harsh. It isn't likely as we know with all low round picks, but I think people are going a bit far on this one.

It wouldn't surprise me if former players kids are a group they like, because a lot of the next generation players that do make it have some pretty top level compete drives. They have watched it and know what it takes, I think that is a gamble on their part but we see teams take them in the major sports on this line of thinking. But say we take a flier on Doan's kid or something this year, I can see why some teams do that.

I wouldn't mind targeting Josh Doan with one of our later picks, has a crazy compete level on him.

I don't know that I have DND guys, I mean I guess there are some rare ones. I usually think at some point I am okay with the talent gamble. There are usually just guys I don't want in certain slots. Like picking 6 I am not going to be a Clarke or Eklund guy, picking 9 or 10th I feel differently.

No one's losing their mind here, except the people bending over backwards to try and minimize the nepotism at play.

If Kienan Draper was on your draft radar as a good player - fine.
Otherwise, we know what this smells like.

It was a gift, from father to son.
And Yzerman, for whom Draper is like a brother (Drapes helped the Yzerman family a lot when Yzerman moved down to Tampa for his new job), let it slide.

 

[MBH]

Funny thing about the Miller situation, I live near his hometown. My wife is from there and knows people that teach at the school the kids went to. Talking to them, they feel terrible for Miller. They felt he did his penance and deserved a second chance and was a good kid overall. Same with his lawyer, who actually is married to a friend of mine. There's no doubt he did a terrible thing, but the victim wasnt a saint and there were constant issues with him and his family. The teachers were very happy when that kid moved on from their classrooms. There's no doubt that the family was being 100% vindictive when they ran to the media after he was drafted. And the media was more than happy to drag Miller though the coals, it's the world that we now live in.

Always more to the story. But once the hivemind decides someone's a douchebag who needs to get canceled, it's over.

To be honest, just having that story come out again was a pretty big punishment for Miller. Having to live that down forever.
But then to get "undrafted" and lose your scholarship? Excessive and cruel.

 

[MBH]

That's also the same logic that got Mitchell Miller drafted by Phoenix.

Or why you draft a Tony DeAngelo even though there's all kinds of red flags about his behavior with teammates.

Or how a team drafts Bryan Fogarty despite obvious problems with substance abuse at a really young age. (RIP)

There's a reason some of these guys are not on some teams draft lists.

So? If a first-round talent drops to late in round 2 (like Hudler), you win.

If he becomes someone you don't want to deal with, trade him.

 

[Oddbob]

I don’t think people understand what a “Do Not Draft List” is.

I think most of these guys maybe you wouldn’t want at 6, but I have a hard time believing you wouldn’t want them at 22.

Do Not Draft means they are completely off your board. I think taking Clarke, Eklund, or Johnson completely off your board would be silly.

Exactly what I was thinking. When I think of Do Not Draft, it is guys with questionable personalities (ala DeAngelo, Ho-Sang etc.) or guys who you feel won't work hard enough or don't care enough. Guys who are maybe weak at skating, or any other singular facet are not guys who get scratched off your list. You can always attempt to fix weak skating, shot etc, you can't really fix personality, work ethic.

 

[Oddbob]

There is no such thing as a "do not draft at all" list. Teams would never have something like that because even the next Sean Avery (undrafted BTW) would have value in the 7th round, especially since Draper doesn't have an eligible child to pick this draft.

This isn't true. I have read and listened to more than one GM who said they had certain players on their DO NOT DRAFT list. Bryan Burke for example said they had Yakupov (I think it was Yak) on their don't draft list cause they didn't like his interview. Others have said similar things as well, that they wouldn't have picked certain players no matter the round.

 

[MBH]

I get the sense Veleno was on a lot of "do not draft" lists for some reason.
It still boggles the mind he fell to the end of round 1.

 

[Hen Kolland]

No one's losing their mind here, except the people bending over backwards to try and minimize the nepotism at play.

If Kienan Draper was on your draft radar as a good player - fine.
Otherwise, we know what this smells like.

It was a gift, from father to son.
And Yzerman, for whom Draper is like a brother (Drapes helped the Yzerman family a lot when Yzerman moved down to Tampa for his new job), let it slide.

Who is really losing their mind when some people are saying “it’s a seventh round bloodline pick, who gives a shit” and the other group (yourself included) constantly bringing up how nepotism is an indication that Draper doesn’t know what he’s doing or that his judgement can’t be trusted.

Some of you sound like true conspiracy theorists that Draper is trying to tear the Red Wings down from the inside.

 

[Gniwder]

Who is really losing their mind when some people are saying “it’s a seventh round bloodline pick, who gives a shit” and the other group (yourself included) constantly bringing up how nepotism is an indication that Draper doesn’t know what he’s doing or that his judgement can’t be trusted.

Some of you sound like true conspiracy theorists that Draper is trying to tear the Red Wings down from the inside.

Maybe, if he had 15 sons.

Nepotism is an inefficiency. Nobody would care if the Wings were a contender, but right now they can't afford to waste any picks. The country club atmosphere still continues with Stevie hiring his brother, Draper drafting his son, and the team trading for Verbeek's nephew, the "Little Ball of Dislike".

It's not going to destroy the team, but it's hard to fathom why any fan would be supportive of the behavior. That's the really strange part of it all.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Maybe, if he had 15 sons.

Nepotism is an inefficiency. Nobody would care if the Wings were a contender, but right now they can't afford to waste any picks. The country club atmosphere still continues with Stevie hiring his brother, Draper drafting his son, and the team trading for Verbeek's nephew, the "Little Ball of Dislike".

It's not going to destroy the team, but it's hard to fathom why any fan would be supportive of the behavior. That's the really strange part of it all.

Well, it could be worse. We could have drafted Taro Tsujimoto's son with that pick.

 

[Gniwder]

Well, it could be worse. We could have drafted Taro Tsujimoto's son with that pick.

Would have to be his grandson, that was almost 40 years ago.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Would have to be his grandson, that was almost 40 years ago.

Maybe he had a child late in life? A star of Tsujimoto's caliber was surely getting action in his 50's and 60's.

Whether he's Tsujimoto's son or grand son that's a legacy pick I can get behind.

 

[Gniwder]

Maybe he had a child late in life? A star of Tsujimoto's caliber was surely getting action in his 50's and 60's.

Whether he's Tsujimoto's son or grand son that's a legacy pick I can get behind.

The guy actually owned a Japanese store, they just picked one of the most common Japanese first names for the imaginary player. Turns out the grandson is a hockey blogger, and he probably has the same chance of making the NHL as Kienan.

Also found out the namesake passed away in 2013. RIP to my fellow alum.
Joshua Y. Tsujimoto, 93, farmer, gift shop owner | Obituaries | buffalonews.com

 

[Nut Upstrom]

Always more to the story. But once the hivemind decides someone's a douchebag who needs to get canceled, it's over.

To be honest, just having that story come out again was a pretty big punishment for Miller. Having to live that down forever.
But then to get "undrafted" and lose your scholarship? Excessive and cruel.

Funny thing about the Miller situation, I live near his hometown. My wife is from there and knows people that teach at the school the kids went to. Talking to them, they feel terrible for Miller. They felt he did his penance and deserved a second chance and was a good kid overall. Same with his lawyer, who actually is married to a friend of mine. There's no doubt he did a terrible thing, but the victim wasnt a saint and there were constant issues with him and his family. The teachers were very happy when that kid moved on from their classrooms. There's no doubt that the family was being 100% vindictive when they ran to the media after he was drafted. And the media was more than happy to drag Miller though the coals, it's the world that we now live in.

Like the hive mind in that small Ohio town that harassed a girl so bad that she and her family had to move away - all because she had the temerity to go to the authorities after being assaulted at a party by multiple members of the high school football team.

The information on Miller's behavior before and after he went to court for terrorizing that boy is out there; those rushing to his defense in the area where this happened are likely reacting as the people in that little Ohio town - circle the wagons around our sainted little sports star (another fine example of the hive mind). How dare Miller's victim or his family drag poor Mitchell into court or have the audacity to loudly speak their son's trauma at Miller's hand after the golden sport star was drafted.
Cancel culture. f*** off with that. Miller finally had to face a consequence in his life. If you are looking for douchebags look no further than the two adults who bore and raised that scumbag.

 

[Bluenote13]

Like the hive mind in that small Ohio town that harassed a girl so bad that she and her family had to move away - all because she had the temerity to go to the authorities after being assaulted at a party by multiple members of the high school football team.

The information on Miller's behavior before and after he went to court for terrorizing that boy is out there; those rushing to his defense in the area where this happened are likely reacting as the people in that little Ohio town - circle the wagons around our sainted little sports star (another fine example of the hive mind). How dare Miller's victim or his family drag poor Mitchell into court or have the audacity to loudly speak their son's trauma at Miller's hand after the golden sport star was drafted.
Cancel culture. f*** off with that. Miller finally had to face a consequence in his life. If you are looking for douchebags look no further than the two adults who bore and raised that scumbag.

I couldn't agree with this enough, thank you.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

Maybe, if he had 15 sons.

Nepotism is an inefficiency. Nobody would care if the Wings were a contender, but right now they can't afford to waste any picks. The country club atmosphere still continues with Stevie hiring his brother, Draper drafting his son, and the team trading for Verbeek's nephew, the "Little Ball of Dislike".

It's not going to destroy the team, but it's hard to fathom why any fan would be supportive of the behavior. That's the really strange part of it all.

The league is not ready for our

Draper-Draper-Draper
Draper-Draper
Draper

lineup.

 

[jfrank21]

Like the hive mind in that small Ohio town that harassed a girl so bad that she and her family had to move away - all because she had the temerity to go to the authorities after being assaulted at a party by multiple members of the high school football team.

The information on Miller's behavior before and after he went to court for terrorizing that boy is out there; those rushing to his defense in the area where this happened are likely reacting as the people in that little Ohio town - circle the wagons around our sainted little sports star (another fine example of the hive mind). How dare Miller's victim or his family drag poor Mitchell into court or have the audacity to loudly speak their son's trauma at Miller's hand after the golden sport star was drafted.
Cancel culture. f*** off with that. Miller finally had to face a consequence in his life. If you are looking for douchebags look no further than the two adults who bore and raised that scumbag.

Yeah, totally the same thing as two boys going back and forth harrassing each other in school when they are in junior high. And one boy taking it too far because he's surrounded by locker room culture by being a good hockey player. I mean, we all know that hockey culture is squeaky clean and a young 14 year would never have witnessed anything untoward happening in the lockerroom or showers. Things like guys peeing on each other in the shower or whatever and laughing like the idiot kids they are. Stuff like that happened in my locker room and Ive heard worse from other guys growing up. I have no clue where a guy like Miller would learn behaviour like that and see it as no big deal....

 

[Nut Upstrom]

Yeah, totally the same thing as two boys going back and forth harrassing each other in school when they are in junior high. And one boy taking it too far because he's surrounded by locker room culture by being a good hockey player. I mean, we all know that hockey culture is squeaky clean and a young 14 year would never have witnessed anything untoward happening in the lockerroom or showers. Things like guys peeing on each other in the shower or whatever and laughing like the idiot kids they are. Stuff like that happened in my locker room and Ive heard worse from other guys growing up. I have no clue where a guy like Miller would learn behaviour like that and see it as no big deal....

The community turning on a victim or rallying around the athlete because it hurts the local sports team is the comparison to draw on - not the gender or situation of the victim. So in that sense, it pretty much is the same thing.

You seem pretty clueless on the entire situation or maybe you are just listening to Miller's fan club too much. Yea, the locker room is a pretty disgusting place. Now imagine one of those jock straps taking the behaviour outside of the locker room and turning it on a kid with well documented mental issues - for years.

But whatever man, the circumstances of what went on are too well known around these parts for you to not know about them and the responses and actions of Miller's parents are pretty well documented as well. If you choose to defend Miller because of 'cancel culture' or 'locker room culture' that's cool by me - to each their own. I see no real point discussing this with you anymore. We've chosen our sides, heard from who we need to hear from and have made up our minds. All we are doing at this point is de-railing the thread.

 

[Killerjas]

The league is not ready for our

Draper-Draper-Draper
Draper-Draper
Draper

lineup.

Would be an unstoppable force in the ECHL