Speculation: 2021-22 Trade Thread VI : Who's your Dadonov?

[duxfan1101]

I thought I'd start a new thread since our whole team has been flipped upside down in the past week.

Click to read more...

 

[Dirk316]

The lineup is embarrassing not much more to say

 

[duxfan1101]

One thing I hope we do in the offseason is take on more 1 year cap dumps from cap-strapped teams (like Dadonov). We have 1 more year of significant cap space before our young guys get bigger contracts.

I have compiled a list of candidates that could be options for us to take on for next season. All of these players have a contract that expires after next season, and are currently playing for contending teams in need of cap space.

Centers:
Sean Monahan ($6.375M AAV, 10 team no trade list)

Wingers:
James van Riemsdyk ($7.25M AAV, no trade protection)
Milan Lucic ($6M AAV, 10 teams he can be traded to starting July 1, 2022)
Jason Zucker ($5.5M AAV, 10 team no trade list)
Patric Hornqvist ($5.3M AAV, 8 team no trade list)
Nick Foligno ($3.8M AAV, 16 team no trade list)
J.T. Compher ($3.5M AAV, no trade protection)

Defensemen:
Erik Johnson ($6M AAV, 19 teams he can be traded to)
Duncan Keith ($5.5M AAV, NMC)

Goalies:
Semyon Varlamov ($5M AAV, 16 team no trade list)
Cam Talbot ($3.67M AAV, no trade protection)
Anton Khudobin ($3.33M AAV, no trade protection)
Laurent Brossoit ($2.3M AAV, no trade protection)
James Reimer ($2.25M AAV, 5 team no trade list)
Mike Smith ($2.2M AAV, no trade protection)

Other (better players, or team isn't as desperate):
Vladimir Tarasenko
Max Pacioretty
Jonathan Drouin

LTIR:
Oscar Klefbom
Ben Bishop
Jake Gardiner
Micheal Ferland

 

[WhatTheDuck]

One thing I hope we do in the offseason is accrue more 1 year cap dumps from cap-strapped teams (like Dadonov). We have 1 more year of significant cap space before our young guys get bigger contracts.

I have compiled a list of candidates that could be options for us to take on for next season. All of these players have a contract that expires after next season, and are currently playing for contending teams in need of cap space.

Centers:
Sean Monahan ($6.375M AAV, 10 team no trade list)

Wingers:
James van Riemsdyk ($7.25M AAV, no trade protection)
Milan Lucic ($6M AAV, 10 teams he can be traded to starting July 1, 2022)
Jason Zucker ($5.5M AAV, 10 team no trade list)
Patric Hornqvist ($5.3M AAV, 8 team no trade list)
Nick Foligno ($3.8M AAV, 16 team no trade list)
J.T. Compher ($3.5M AAV, no trade protection)

Defensemen:
Erik Johnson ($6M AAV, 19 teams he can be traded to)
Duncan Keith ($5.5M AAV, NMC)

Goalies:
Semyon Varlamov ($5M AAV, 16 team no trade list)
Cam Talbot ($3.67M AAV, no trade protection)
Anton Khudobin ($3.33M AAV, no trade protection)
Laurent Brossoit ($2.3M AAV, no trade protection)
James Reimer ($2.25M AAV, 5 team no trade list)
Mike Smith ($2.2M AAV, no trade protection)

Other (better players, or team isn't as desperate):
Vladimir Tarasenko
Max Pacioretty
Jonathan Drouin
Joel Armia

LTIR:
Oscar Klefbom
Ben Bishop
Jake Gardiner
Micheal Ferland

If he's willing to accept a trade there, we'll have to fight Ottawa for Lucic. After his bonus is paid, he only gets 1M salary on a 6M cap hit. That's a Melnyk dream contract.

 

[The Duck Knight]

One thing I hope we do in the offseason is accrue more 1 year cap dumps from cap-strapped teams (like Dadonov). We have 1 more year of significant cap space before our young guys get bigger contracts.

I have compiled a list of candidates that could be options for us to take on for next season. All of these players have a contract that expires after next season, and are currently playing for contending teams in need of cap space.

Centers:
Sean Monahan ($6.375M AAV, 10 team no trade list)

Wingers:
James van Riemsdyk ($7.25M AAV, no trade protection)
Milan Lucic ($6M AAV, 10 teams he can be traded to starting July 1, 2022)
Jason Zucker ($5.5M AAV, 10 team no trade list)
Patric Hornqvist ($5.3M AAV, 8 team no trade list)
Nick Foligno ($3.8M AAV, 16 team no trade list)
J.T. Compher ($3.5M AAV, no trade protection)

Defensemen:
Erik Johnson ($6M AAV, 19 teams he can be traded to)
Duncan Keith ($5.5M AAV, NMC)

Goalies:
Semyon Varlamov ($5M AAV, 16 team no trade list)
Cam Talbot ($3.67M AAV, no trade protection)
Anton Khudobin ($3.33M AAV, no trade protection)
Laurent Brossoit ($2.3M AAV, no trade protection)
James Reimer ($2.25M AAV, 5 team no trade list)
Mike Smith ($2.2M AAV, no trade protection)

Other (better players, or team isn't as desperate):
Vladimir Tarasenko
Max Pacioretty
Jonathan Drouin

LTIR:
Oscar Klefbom
Ben Bishop
Jake Gardiner
Micheal Ferland

Monahan makes a lot of sense of that list. If Getzlaf retires we could use a vet top 9 center. If Monahan rebounds fantastic, you can flip him at the deadline. If not just let him walk.

 

[LuckyDucky]

One thing I hope we do in the offseason is accrue more 1 year cap dumps from cap-strapped teams (like Dadonov). We have 1 more year of significant cap space before our young guys get bigger contracts.

I have compiled a list of candidates that could be options for us to take on for next season. All of these players have a contract that expires after next season, and are currently playing for contending teams in need of cap space.

Centers:
Sean Monahan ($6.375M AAV, 10 team no trade list)

Wingers:
James van Riemsdyk ($7.25M AAV, no trade protection)
Milan Lucic ($6M AAV, 10 teams he can be traded to starting July 1, 2022)
Jason Zucker ($5.5M AAV, 10 team no trade list)
Patric Hornqvist ($5.3M AAV, 8 team no trade list)
Nick Foligno ($3.8M AAV, 16 team no trade list)
J.T. Compher ($3.5M AAV, no trade protection)

Defensemen:
Erik Johnson ($6M AAV, 19 teams he can be traded to)
Duncan Keith ($5.5M AAV, NMC)

Goalies:
Semyon Varlamov ($5M AAV, 16 team no trade list)
Cam Talbot ($3.67M AAV, no trade protection)
Anton Khudobin ($3.33M AAV, no trade protection)
Laurent Brossoit ($2.3M AAV, no trade protection)
James Reimer ($2.25M AAV, 5 team no trade list)
Mike Smith ($2.2M AAV, no trade protection)

Other (better players, or team isn't as desperate):
Vladimir Tarasenko
Max Pacioretty
Jonathan Drouin

LTIR:
Oscar Klefbom
Ben Bishop
Jake Gardiner
Micheal Ferland

I'd target Edmonton (Keith), Calgary (Monahan), or the Isles (Varlamov). Each team is needs to sign multiple RFAs and/or UFAs to fill out their roster, and I think each one of the players can help the Ducks next year (even if it is only marginally).

 

[duckpuck]

You are neglecting time and situation. There wasn't a whole lot of movement of anything since the pandemic hit.

Murray himself said he'd use the Ducks cap space to acquire assets, which he did.

Which teams desperately needed Kesler's LTIR? Who called Murray to acquire Kesler's LTIR. You do realize it takes two to tango, no?

Vegas put themselves in cap hell and were desperate for cap relief. Hence the opportunity to off-load Kesler's contract. They would do the Kucherov thing but they need Pacioretti back (at least) to salvage a playoff spot. Hence the need for this trade with the Ducks.

There has been a massive number of transactions since COVID, several of which were cap driven deals. The list for this year is 6 pages long.

NHL trades for 2021-22 - NHL Trade Tracker

nhltradetracker.com

Examples of players traded for cap space reasons:

Phx took Andrew Ladd for two years ($5.5M AAV/$8M real dollars) and received 3 picks.

PHx took Gostisbehere for two years ($4.5m AAV/$6.5M real dollars), for 2 picks - and the player was actually useful.

PHX acquired Stralman, a prospect, and a pick for nothing in a salary cap dump.

Chicago acquired Tyler Johnson and a second round pick in exchange for BRETT SEABROOK, ARGUABLY THE WORST CONTRACT IN THE LEAGUE who is on LTIR.

There have been several deals where teams (I believe Detroit, San Jose, and possibly others) participated as the third team solely for purposes of retaining salary in exchange for a draft pick.

We didn't weapon our cap space. We actually have a lesser cap hit now. I feel like you're discussing 2 different things. It's fair to discuss using the LTIR contracts to get assets but outside of Tampa there weren't a lot of teams looking for that. At the time none of us wanted Johnson so I'm not sure I can really be mad about it.

LTIR contracts create cap space (potentially). So they really are the same thing. And, as noted above, lots of other teams were looking to dump salaries, including NYI, Philly, and others.

Lots of ducks fans would have taken Johnson if he was accompanied by other assets. Tampa would have wanted to take Kesler's deal back instead of Seabrook's and likely would have paid extra for it.

Do you disagree that holding Kesler's contract (which was an asset) to the very last minute was good asset management by the ducks?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Monahan makes a lot of sense of that list. If Getzlaf retires we could use a vet top 9 center. If Monahan rebounds fantastic, you can flip him at the deadline. If not just let him walk.

Helping calgary id want something significant back.... id rather just target 1 of their RFAs if they cant find a way to trade Monohan

Mangiapane seems like a debrincat light, wouldnt mind adding him to the roster

With them having little space and JG as a UFA + Tkachuck mangiapane kylington, might be pretty tight.

They have Zary / Pelletier and Coronato, so Mangiapane could be odd man out, i wonder what a trade looks like

Monahan + Mangiapane

 

[duckpuck]

I'd target Edmonton (Keith), Calgary (Monahan), or the Isles (Varlamov). Each team is needs to sign multiple RFAs and/or UFAs to fill out their roster, and I think each one of the players can help the Ducks next year (even if it is only marginally).

You think Keith can help the ducks on the ice? Yikes. He has an AAV of $5.5M and real cash of $1.5M - another Melnyk special I suppose. Maybe take him if Edmonton is really willing to pay, but I think you buy him out.

For Edmonton, I'd target one of their RFAs - Puljujarvi or even Yamamoto. Or Debrusk in Boston. Fiala, Laine, Boeser and even Laine might be available for a discount.

 

[duxfan1101]

Also, I really get the feeling we may try to trade Gibson in the off-season. Here are 4 possible ideas I thought of:

To Toronto for 1st + Mrazek + Holl + Niemela + Knies/Robertson

To Edmonton for 1st + Smith + Kassian + Broberg + Holloway/Bourgault

To Chicago for 1st + Connolly + Reichel

To Colorado for 1st + Compher + Olausson/Foudy

Yes, I know some of these are optimistic, but it’s difficult to pin exactly what Gibson’s value is around the league. I personally think Edmonton could be the likeliest suitor, the main question would be if Gibson is willing to accept a trade there.

 

[Leonardo87]

Was going to make a thread, maybe someone else can. What do we want to do with Gibson, what’s the consensus here. Is it possible this summer to move him, or is that too soon? But how long does his declining numbers hurt his value? To they just keep him. I just don’t see him part of the future contending core anymore.

I think Dostal may be ready to back up next season but he shouldn’t be rushed either, do they hand Stolarz the starters role, or go 1A and 1B. Ducks are not contenidng next season but they should not be icing a bottom 5 team either. Not good for kids development.

 

[DucksUnited]

Anaheim has more issues with the NHL and the integrity of the sport, let alone Gibson. Full focus is on that matter for Dadonov. Anaheim got scammed

 

[DavidBL]

There has been a massive number of transactions since COVID, several of which were cap driven deals. The list for this year is 6 pages long.

NHL trades for 2021-22 - NHL Trade Tracker

nhltradetracker.com

Examples of players traded for cap space reasons:

Phx took Andrew Ladd for two years ($5.5M AAV/$8M real dollars) and received 3 picks.

PHx took Gostisbehere for two years ($4.5m AAV/$6.5M real dollars), for 2 picks - and the player was actually useful.

PHX acquired Stralman, a prospect, and a pick for nothing in a salary cap dump.

Chicago acquired Tyler Johnson and a second round pick in exchange for BRETT SEABROOK, ARGUABLY THE WORST CONTRACT IN THE LEAGUE who is on LTIR.

There have been several deals where teams (I believe Detroit, San Jose, and possibly others) participated as the third team solely for purposes of retaining salary in exchange for a draft pick.





LTIR contracts create cap space (potentially). So they really are the same thing. And, as noted above, lots of other teams were looking to dump salaries, including NYI, Philly, and others.

Lots of ducks fans would have taken Johnson if he was accompanied by other assets. Tampa would have wanted to take Kesler's deal back instead of Seabrook's and likely would have paid extra for it.

Do you disagree that holding Kesler's contract (which was an asset) to the very last minute was good asset management by the ducks?

I think you're making assumptions about the teams that wanted the contract. Taking a deal like that is a LAST resort. It's not free cap space. And when you do the bigger the contract the better generally. Do you really think that BM just told teams no if they expressed interest in the acquirering the contract? As far as taking Johnson, where does he play? We had too many forwards as it was to start the year.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Was going to make a thread, maybe someone else can. What do we want to do with Gibson, what’s the consensus here. Is it possible this summer to move him, or is that too soon? But how long does his declining numbers hurt his value? To they just keep him. I just don’t see him part of the future contending core anymore.

I think Dostal may be ready to back up next season but he shouldn’t be rushed either, do they hand Stolarz the starters role, or go 1A and 1B. Ducks are not contenidng next season but they should not be icing a bottom 5 team either. Not good for kids development.

I think i move him at the draft..... His value is just going to tank more over the next 2 years with the roster... and his attitude is just going to get worse... wont even be shocked if he demands a trade at draft.

Oilers, Leafs, Sabres, Penguins, Devils... hell even the red wings would prob all be interested.

Just send him for the highest 1st + prospect, take back cap as needed

If toronto loses in round 1 again... i could def see
nylander for gibson base

 

[LuckyDucky]

You think Keith can help the ducks on the ice? Yikes. He has an AAV of $5.5M and real cash of $1.5M - another Melnyk special I suppose. Maybe take him if Edmonton is really willing to pay, but I think you buy him out.

For Edmonton, I'd target one of their RFAs - Puljujarvi or even Yamamoto. Or Debrusk in Boston. Fiala, Laine, Boeser and even Laine might be available for a discount.

Compared to the Ducks' current pairings, I do, unfortunately.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Was going to make a thread, maybe someone else can. What do we want to do with Gibson, what’s the consensus here. Is it possible this summer to move him, or is that too soon? But how long does his declining numbers hurt his value? To they just keep him. I just don’t see him part of the future contending core anymore.

I think Dostal may be ready to back up next season but he shouldn’t be rushed either, do they hand Stolarz the starters role, or go 1A and 1B. Ducks are not contenidng next season but they should not be icing a bottom 5 team either. Not good for kids development.

Maybe buffalos middle 1st round + peternka/rosen as a base

 

[Leonardo87]

I think i move him at the draft..... His value is just going to tank more over the next 2 years with the roster... and his attitude is just going to get worse... wont even be shocked if he demands a trade at draft.

Oilers, Leafs, Sabres, Penguins, Devils... hell even the red wings would prob all be interested.

Just send him for the highest 1st + prospect, take back cap as needed

If toronto loses in round 1 again... i could def see
nylander for gibson base

Last night, half those goals I think he would save if he was locked in, he is just checked out now. Defense has been bad, but he has just been as awful. If we are getting a Top line player or Top 4D along with other assets, you do it.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Last night, half those goals I think he would save if he was locked in, he is just checked out now. Defense has been bad, but he has just been as awful. If we are getting a Top line player or Top 4D along with other assets, you do it.

Yep hes not going to do us much favors on the trade value front.... id be shocked if he even gets Freddie trade value back

and you can say bad defense, but its been 3 years of this.... not to mention our back ups have had better #'s

 

[duckpuck]

I think you're making assumptions about the teams that wanted the contract. Taking a deal like that is a LAST resort. It's not free cap space. And when you do the bigger the contract the better generally. Do you really think that BM just told teams no if they expressed interest in the acquirering the contract? As far as taking Johnson, where does he play? We had too many forwards as it was to start the year.

I have no idea what Murray said - and if he was telling teams "no" it very well could have been a direction from ownership. My original point was that EITHER Verbeek was more willing to weaponize cap then Murray AND/OR he was more successful in convincing ownership to do so. So what Murray said at the time is both unknown and not necessarily all that relevant.

What is known is that: (i) for the past two years, the ducks have had a lot of cap space (including the Kesler contract) they did not weaponize; (ii) Kesler's contract stayed on the books for 3 years when he was on LTIR and basically retired; and (iii) Verbeek retained salary on 3 deals, took two salary dumps in the Rakell trade, and attempted to trade Kesler's contract. Verbeek did more of those things in one week than Murray did the past 5+ years.

 

[duxfan1101]

Maybe buffalos middle 1st round + peternka/rosen as a base

Not sure they would interested now that they have Levi coming up soon.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Not sure they would interested now that they have Levi coming up soon.

Ya i was hesitant to put them or detroit there (with cossa coming)...
tho i still feel like levi is another year or 2 out, and cossa prob closer to 3 years out.

 

[The Duck Knight]

Also, I really get the feeling we may try to trade Gibson in the off-season. Here are 4 possible ideas I thought of:

To Toronto for 1st + Mrazek + Holl + Niemela + Knies/Robertson

To Edmonton for 1st + Smith + Kassian + Broberg + Holloway/Bourgault

To Chicago for 1st + Connolly + Reichel

To Colorado for 1st + Compher + Olausson/Foudy

Yes, I know some of these are optimistic, but it’s difficult to pin exactly what Gibson’s value is around the league. I personally think Edmonton could be the likeliest suitor, the main question would be if Gibson is willing to accept a trade there.

Toronto and Edmonton clearly have the best to offer. They're also the most likely Gibson would block a trade to. Colorado has nothing interesting if they aren't putting Newhook or Byram on the table.

 

[DavidBL]

I have no idea what Murray said - and if he was telling teams "no" it very well could have been a direction from ownership. My original point was that EITHER Verbeek was more willing to weaponize cap then Murray AND/OR he was more successful in convincing ownership to do so. So what Murray said at the time is both unknown and not necessarily all that relevant.

What is known is that: (i) for the past two years, the ducks have had a lot of cap space (including the Kesler contract) they did not weaponize; (ii) Kesler's contract stayed on the books for 3 years when he was on LTIR and basically retired; and (iii) Verbeek retained salary on 3 deals, took two salary dumps in the Rakell trade, and attempted to trade Kesler's contract. Verbeek did more of those things in one week than Murray did the past 5+ years.

Factually incorrect. Ducks used over 4 mill in LTIR last year. This the first season we have had cap space. At the end of the day we're comparing roster building philosophies. BM was rebuilding while trying to maintain some semblance of competitiveness. He took on Bakces to make sure he got a first out of Boston. He didn't really trade anyone that needed retention. PV just decided to move on rather than sign the UFAs which is likely what BM would have done. I think the reality between the 2 is less dramatic than you're painting it to be.

 

[duckpuck]

Factually incorrect. Ducks used over 4 mill in LTIR last year. This the first season we have had cap space. At the end of the day we're comparing roster building philosophies. BM was rebuilding while trying to maintain some semblance of competitiveness. He took on Bakces to make sure he got a first out of Boston. He didn't really trade anyone that needed retention. PV just decided to move on rather than sign the UFAs which is likely what BM would have done. I think the reality between the 2 is less dramatic than you're painting it to be.

What was Kesler's contract? $6.8M which is less than $4M. The ducks had available space, including the ability to send down waiver eligible players if they wanted more.

 

[Leonardo87]

Not sure where to put this…



Getting skilled and compliment players to build around Zegras, Terry, and Drysdale is exactly what I wanted to hear. Hopefully He does it as soon as this summer.