GDT: 2021-22 season WESTERN CONFERENCE QUARTER FINALS game 4 LA Kings vs Edmonton Oilers @7:00pm Oilers lead 2-1

Raccoon Jesus · May 9, 2022

Axl Rhoadz said:
At this point, I'm fairly convinced the lack of success on the PP is not due to coaching...it's due to execution.

I saw Kaliyev with plenty of opportunities last night, only to miss the net. Explain to me how the PP savior is going to fix the 'problem' when he's not even hitting the net?

You and i have very different definitions of 'plenty'

but I'll bite, imagine putting your PP trigger man in the BUMPER spot instead of a proper wing. No one in the league shoots one timers from the bumper. Little hard to hit the net when Kopitar telegraphs a pass to the one spot onthe ice where all FOUR PKers converge. That he got a quick shot off period is a miracle in itself. How many times have you seen Iafallo shoot from there in 82 games in that spot?

Maynard · May 9, 2022

johnjm22 said:
From 06-07 to 17-18, the Kings Power Play averaged being in the top half of the league (13th), and overall was only 3.2% away from matching best in the league.

Since Sturm got her in 18/19, the Kings PP has fallen off a cliff, and has averaged 26th best in the league.

People blame Sturm but McLellan is the one out there coaching them when they practice the PP. Sturm is there but the season long PP problems are Todd’s failing. Sturm can get f***ed too but he defers to Todd on the PP coaching.

Raccoon Jesus · May 9, 2022

Axl Rhoadz said:
The PP usually consists of your highest scoring forwards and D-men...I would bet that lines up with your 'same guys' you are referring to. Prove me wrong.

Kaliyev was our leading PP goal scorer and he was barely on PP2 half the season, never mind PP1 the whole season.

There, easily debunked.

johnjm22 · May 9, 2022

I know I'm a homer, but I didn't really think Quick played bad in the previous two blow out games.

johnjm22 · May 9, 2022

Maynard said:
People blame Sturm but McLellan is the one out there coaching them when they practice the PP. Sturm is there but the season long PP problems are Todd’s failing. Sturm can get f***ed too but he defers to Todd on the PP coaching.

Yeah, I realize Todd is the one out there coaching special teams in practice. But there's a direct correlation between Sturm arriving and the Kings PP/PK falling off a cliff. Not sure how much influence either has.

Also, correlation doesn't equal causality, but I just like to point out that the Kings have had good special teams with Kopitar and Doughty before.

Axl Rhoadz · May 9, 2022

Raccoon Jesus said:
Kaliyev was our leading PP goal scorer and he was barely on PP2 half the season, never mind PP1 the whole season.

There, easily debunked.

Great, then you've helped Master Yoda understand that the PP isn't necessarily the same cast of characters which debunks his theory. Nice job.

AbsentMojo · May 9, 2022

For the PP - Kopi is good on faceoffs and working with Kempe on zone entries... after that he only does harm - his puck distribution is awful. If we are going to keep him on PP1 - get him into the bumper position. Kempe is very sharp passer and decision maker on the PP. Durzi is deceptive and decisive he is the one D that belongs. Kaliyev has a hard shot.. the accuracy isnt really there yet, but if they gave him a little more time to get the shot off maybe he starts to click - id keep him. I want Arvidsson on pp1 since he has a hard shot and his pull and drag move can get off shots from different angles. Those are the 5 id want out for PP1. This experiment or one like it shouldve been tried during the season.. mixing it up now as an afterthought is just asking for more trouble. Going into the playoffs as by far the worst PP is asking for it.. some experiments shouldve been tried and if notthing helped at least you know not to f*** with it in the middle of the playoffs.

johnjm22 · May 9, 2022

Special Teams Averages

06-07 to 17-18 (Pre Sturm):
PP: 13th Overall
PK: 11th Overall

18-19 to Now (w/ Sturm)
PP: 26th Overall
PK: 26th Overall

King'sPawn · May 9, 2022

Raccoon Jesus said:
Kaliyev was our leading PP goal scorer and he was barely on PP2 half the season, never mind PP1 the whole season.

There, easily debunked.

Just to add some of the absurdity.

Kaliyev was 7th on the team in TOTAL powerplay time throughout the season; inflated a bit by virtue of playing in 80 games. His AVERAGE powerplay time on ice was 13th on the team at 1:56.

Granted, some of the people ahead of him are so low in sample size they don't really count, like Frk, Tynan, Tkachev, Clague. But, including regular/semi-regulars, he had less powerplay time than:
Kopitar
Doughty
Kempe
Iafallo
Arvidsson
Durzi
Brown
Danault

The bolded players had fewer powerplay points than Kaliyev. The italicized players had fewer powerplay goals.

GoldenBearHockey · May 9, 2022

Raccoon Jesus said:
Kaliyev was our leading PP goal scorer and he was barely on PP2 half the season, never mind PP1 the whole season.

There, easily debunked.

Well no...that's not what he said, he said "The PP usually consists of your highest scoring forwards and D-men..."

Has nothing to do with PP goal scoring etc.....just how they are made....

Axl Rhoadz · May 9, 2022

johnjm22 said:
Special Teams Averages

06-07 to 17-18 (Pre Sturm):
PP: 13th Overall
PK: 11th Overall

18-19 to Now (w/ Sturm)
PP: 26th Overall
PK: 26th Overall

I claim to be no type of math wizard, but are you comparing a 12-year average to a 4-year average? Doesn't seem fair...

johnjm22 · May 9, 2022

Power Play Points Since 06-07:

RANK	PLAYER	PPP	PPG	SHG	SHP
1	Alex Ovechkin	476	264	2	3
2	Sidney Crosby	463	137	4	9
3	Evgeni Malkin	438	162	4	5
4	Nicklas Backstrom	410	80	2	2
5	Anze Kopitar	380	104	13	23
6	Patrick Kane	380	120	0	1
7	Joe Thornton	370	82	3	7
8	Claude Giroux	350	86	7	16
9	Steven Stamkos	348	181	5	8
10	Joe Pavelski	335	152	10	17

Power Play Points Since 08-09, Defensemen:

RANK	PLAYER	Pos	PPP	PPG
1	Keith Yandle	D	283	35
2	Drew Doughty	D	250	69
3	Erik Karlsson	D	246	35
4	Brent Burns	D	244	68
5	Kris Letang	D	236	43
6	Ryan Suter	D	228	34
7	John Carlson	D	217	37
8	Victor Hedman	D	214	26
9	Shea Weber	D	209	93
10	Torey Krug	D	192	28

TwzKing · May 9, 2022

johnjm22 said:
Power Play Points Since 06-07:

RANK PLAYER PPP PPG SHG SHP
1
Alex Ovechkin
476
264
2
3
2
Sidney Crosby
463
137
4
9
3
Evgeni Malkin
438
162
4
5
4
Nicklas Backstrom
410
80
2
2
5
Anze Kopitar
380
104
13
23
6
Patrick Kane
380
120
0
1
7
Joe Thornton
370
82
3
7
8
Claude Giroux
350
86
7
16
9
Steven Stamkos
348
181
5
8
10
Joe Pavelski
335
152
10
17

Power Play Points Since 08-09, Defensemen:

RANK PLAYER Pos PPP PPG
1
Keith Yandle D
283
35
2
Drew Doughty D
250
69
3
Erik Karlsson D
246
35
4
Brent Burns D
244
68
5
Kris Letang D
236
43
6
Ryan Suter D
228
34
7
John Carlson D
217
37
8
Victor Hedman D
214
26
9
Shea Weber D
209
93
10
Torey Krug D
192
28

Well thats interesting lol

Axl Rhoadz · May 9, 2022

TwzKing said:
Well thats interesting lol

yah, for sure....so maybe a healthy DD (one that isn't out of the lineup for over half the season) possibly improves our PP? What a concept!

Chazz Reinhold · May 9, 2022

johnjm22 said:
Power Play Points Since 06-07:

RANK PLAYER PPP PPG SHG SHP
1
Alex Ovechkin
476
264
2
3
2
Sidney Crosby
463
137
4
9
3
Evgeni Malkin
438
162
4
5
4
Nicklas Backstrom
410
80
2
2
5
Anze Kopitar
380
104
13
23
6
Patrick Kane
380
120
0
1
7
Joe Thornton
370
82
3
7
8
Claude Giroux
350
86
7
16
9
Steven Stamkos
348
181
5
8
10
Joe Pavelski
335
152
10
17

Power Play Points Since 08-09, Defensemen:

RANK PLAYER Pos PPP PPG
1
Keith Yandle D
283
35
2
Drew Doughty D
250
69
3
Erik Karlsson D
246
35
4
Brent Burns D
244
68
5
Kris Letang D
236
43
6
Ryan Suter D
228
34
7
John Carlson D
217
37
8
Victor Hedman D
214
26
9
Shea Weber D
209
93
10
Torey Krug D
192
28

What about on a per-minute basis? That'd be a little more illuminating than sheer totals as I'm guessing there's a lot of variation in powerplay minutes played from player to player.

Master Yoda · May 9, 2022

Axl Rhoadz said:
Great, then you've helped Master Yoda understand that the PP isn't necessarily the same cast of characters which debunks his theory. Nice job.

Well it kind of helps my theory. That means you've got more or less the same cast of characters playing a minute and a half of every power play.
Kopitar, Iafallo, Kempe, Doughty/Durzi, Danault

The PP2 only gets maybe 30 seconds. I'll give you that the second unit has been more of a revolving door in terms of personnel without much success.

It took them half a season to figure out Brown shouldn't be on the PP anymore, and it took them a whole season to figure out Iafallo shouldn't be on PP1 anymore.

AbsentMojo · May 9, 2022

johnjm22 said:
Power Play Points Since 06-07:

RANK PLAYER PPP PPG SHG SHP
1
Alex Ovechkin
476
264
2
3
2
Sidney Crosby
463
137
4
9
3
Evgeni Malkin
438
162
4
5
4
Nicklas Backstrom
410
80
2
2
5
Anze Kopitar
380
104
13
23
6
Patrick Kane
380
120
0
1
7
Joe Thornton
370
82
3
7
8
Claude Giroux
350
86
7
16
9
Steven Stamkos
348
181
5
8
10
Joe Pavelski
335
152
10
17

Power Play Points Since 08-09, Defensemen:

RANK PLAYER Pos PPP PPG
1
Keith Yandle D
283
35
2
Drew Doughty D
250
69
3
Erik Karlsson D
246
35
4
Brent Burns D
244
68
5
Kris Letang D
236
43
6
Ryan Suter D
228
34
7
John Carlson D
217
37
8
Victor Hedman D
214
26
9
Shea Weber D
209
93
10
Torey Krug D
192
28

This year Kopi has 22 PP points for 58th overall forwards and defense.. he's 27th overall at his position.

Axl Rhoadz · May 9, 2022

Master Yoda said:
It took them half a season to figure out Brown shouldn't be on the PP anymore, and it took them a whole season to figure out Iafallo shouldn't be on PP1 anymore.

But I thought it's all about the 'system'? You know, the coaches suck, etc. If the system was good, any player could be on the PP.

You are contradicting yourself, dude. But that's alright, because now we agree...it's about the players executing.

johnjm22 · May 9, 2022

Chazz Reinhold said:
What about on a per-minute basis? That'd be a little more illuminating than sheer totals as I'm guessing there's a lot of variation in powerplay minutes played from player to player.

Yeah, that'd be more interesting, but you'd also get more outliers because of small sample sizes. NHL.com doesn't have that ability for special teams minutes yet.

My point here is that the Kings have had good Power Plays before during the Kopitar/Doughty era, so I can't completely blame the players for the current special teams failings like some people seem to be.

Axl Rhoadz · May 9, 2022

johnjm22 said:
My point here is that the Kings have had good Power Plays before during the Kopitar/Doughty era, so I can't completely blame the players for the current special teams failings like some people seem to be.

Wait a second. You are comparing two different eras and basically saying that there should be strong similarities because of the player core? Most of the nutjobs on this board think that today, Kopitar is washed up....but we expect that same player to be producing like he did in say 2010 or 2012?

bland · May 9, 2022

YP44 said:
when you do the same thing over and over with no result is that not the system?

Kopitar is the single biggest factor. He just takes too long to make his decisions. His passes are telegraphed so much that the next logical pass from his recipient is converged on, so the only option is to go right back up top to start all over again.

The actual system is fine, its the execution of the players and a lack of game breaking skill that can succeed in spite of good defense.

Master Yoda · May 9, 2022

Axl Rhoadz said:
But I thought it's all about the 'system'? You know, the coaches suck, etc. If the system was good, any player could be on the PP.

You are contradicting yourself, dude. But that's alright, because now we agree...it's about the players executing.

Well, I didn't say it was all about the "system". Maybe someone else did.
But you said the system is fine and execution is the problem, so can't fault the coaches.
I said, if execution is the problem, which I don't necessarily disagree with, and coaches are putting the same cast of characters out on PP1 that failing to execute, then you can fault the coaches.

Axl Rhoadz · May 9, 2022

Master Yoda said:
Well, I didn't say it was all about the "system". Maybe someone else did.
But you said the system is fine and execution is the problem, so can't fault the coaches.
I said, if execution is the problem, which I don't necessarily disagree with, and coaches are putting the same cast of characters out on PP1 that failing to execute, then you can fault the coaches.

Dude, you are putting your best offensive players out there, it's not rocket science. What's that saying, you can't polish a turd?

Little Psycho · May 9, 2022

Wasn't it Strum that used Kovalchuk IN FRONT OF THE NET during the pp? Planting your sniper..... in front of the goalie. Can't believe that was real.

Master Yoda · May 9, 2022

Axl Rhoadz said:
Dude, you are putting your best offensive players out there, it's not rocket science. What's that saying, you can't polish a turd?

Then what is Iafallo doing out there? And Brown for almost half a season?

GDT: 2021-22 season WESTERN CONFERENCE QUARTER FINALS game 4 LA Kings vs Edmonton Oilers @7:00pm Oilers lead 2-1

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