GDT: 2021-22 season game 76 LA Kings vs Colorado Avalanche @6:30pm 4/13/22

[GoldenBearHockey]

Did they ever looked like they took to the ice pre-lubed , it was embarrassing effing embarrassing . Still deep down they have to want to see the LTIR BS blow up in Vegas's face . Them missing the playoffs by 1 point would be soooo sweet

LOL on this board, that means CGY is brutal, and losers, and yadda yadda yadda lol, but yea, I don't think anyone wants to see Vegas in.....but that LTIR thing is gonna be the new cap circumvention treat, and the NHL doesn't really have any way of limiting it unless they go scorched earth.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I don't think being on your off-wing on the power play is about the velocity of the shot. A quick release and accuracy is just as important, and when you are on your off-wing all the angles are more advantageous to a shooter.

Good point, and 100% accurate, the problem is, to get a good quick release, that pass has to be perfect, and for that, he has to be outside the box, that pass generally is not going to come from the cross seam, it's coming from the point, and goaltenders at that level, know that one timer is coming, so he's gotta have an overpowering shot, the velocity on it, to beat them when they know its coming, he doesnt.

If you watch his goals, all of them that have beaten the goalies, ie not great passes for empty nets, come with just a wicked release that the goalie can not time, when they can time it, they are stopping it, and there aren't many goalies in the NHL that can't time a one timer when they know its coming.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

It is, Turcotte said in an interview at the world juniors that everyone knows not to leave Arty open for a one timer.

The things a rocket and he picks corners with it. His game and strength are shooting. Watch the clips and his season highlights, he sits in that circle with his stick up waiting for a feed and he just rockets it time and time again. I've watched every game this season, the highlight goal for the kings on a one timer from the RW circle was the only game he was given an opportunity there.

The problem is, when was the last game you saw him get off one of those 100+ mph shots? Been a month. Yet, Ovechkin gets 3-5 of those off a night. Because he gets all the PP time and all of his teammates get him the puck continually. They need Arty on PP1 and they need to get him the puck, for those 1-timers. He's often open and ready for them.

His last 10+ shots, have seemed to be wristers and they are pretty epic as well.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

The problem is, when was the last game you saw him get off one of those 100+ mph shots? Been a month. Yet, Ovechkin gets 3-5 of those off a night. Because he gets all the PP time and all of his teammates get him the puck continually. They need Arty on PP1 and they need to get him the puck, for those 1-timers. He's often open and ready for them.

His last 10+ shots, have seemed to be wristers and they are pretty epic as well.

Because the wrister is his best shot, with his release,

it boggles my mind that this board thinks they are the only ones who can "SEE WHATS REALLY GOING ON"

Does the PP suck, yes, does it need change, possibly, is it the system or the execution, probably a bit of both,

But watch Ovechkin, he's sitting on the outside, at the top of the circle...he's got that power, that velocity where it doesn't matter if the goalie knows, he's just praying he can get there, Kaliyev DOES NOT HAVE THAT SAME KIND OF POWER.... he just doesn't, so what works for Ovechkin, won't work the majority of the time for Kaliyev....

 

[YAYSAY]

Because the wrister is his best shot, with his release,

it boggles my mind that this board thinks they are the only ones who can "SEE WHATS REALLY GOING ON"

Does the PP suck, yes, does it need change, possibly, is it the system or the execution, probably a bit of both,

But watch Ovechkin, he's sitting on the outside, at the top of the circle...he's got that power, that velocity where it doesn't matter if the goalie knows, he's just praying he can get there, Kaliyev DOES NOT HAVE THAT SAME KIND OF POWER.... he just doesn't, so what works for Ovechkin, won't work the majority of the time for Kaliyev....

Again, I said regardless of one-timers. His wrister is better suited being on the off wing. You kept latching onto the one-timer portion even though multiple times I said regardless of setting up for a one-timer, a sniper is better on their off wing for PP set up. You also said "oh well they used Iafallo for that," and guess what, Kaliyev has a way better shot than Iafallo, so what's the reasoning there?
Also lol, "does it need to change, possibly." I would say our PP definitely needs to change unless you like staying at the bottom of PP effectiveness in the league.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Again, I said regardless of one-timers. His wrister is better suited being on the off wing. You kept latching onto the one-timer portion even though multiple times I said regardless of setting up for a one-timer, a sniper is better on their off wing for PP set up. You also said "oh well they used Iafallo for that," and guess what, Kaliyev has a way better shot than Iafallo, so what's the reasoning there?
Also lol, "does it need to change, possibly." I would say our PP definitely needs to change unless you like staying at the bottom of PP effectiveness in the league.

I literally said possibly because answer me this....is it the system....or the execution?

And go back to the origins of this, it wasn't with you, it was the genius that said setting up Kaliyev to score like Ovechkin etc....they aren't the same player or shot....

And again, I bring up Iafallo....and Kempe...and Frk....because you guys are acting like this HAS NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE....when it clearly has.....so what's more likely, that the coach knows it won't work, or people who have never laced up skates thinks they reinvented the wheel?

 

[MBH]

The problem is, when was the last game you saw him get off one of those 100+ mph shots? Been a month. Yet, Ovechkin gets 3-5 of those off a night. Because he gets all the PP time and all of his teammates get him the puck continually. They need Arty on PP1 and they need to get him the puck, for those 1-timers. He's often open and ready for them.

His last 10+ shots, have seemed to be wristers and they are pretty epic as well.

Problem is, unless you're OVIE or someone of that magnitude, you're too easy to defend. To predictable and not effective enough.

The Kings' problem is they lack elite playmakers and elite shooters.
They have guys who know how to do it and can do it at the NHL level. But they don't have elite talent.
They don't have a Datsyuk or a Makar or a Crosby or an Ovechkin or a Kucherov.
Nor do they have a true netfront guy.
Their established PP QB has been out most of the year.

It's a mess.

I do think the team needs more Kaliyev and less Iafallo.

Top Kings forwards in minutes
Player Minutes G/60 A/60 P/60
Kopitar 251 - 1.43-3.57-5,0
Kempe 212 - 1.7-2.26-3.96
Iafallo - 203 - 0.59-0.89-1.48 (Needs to go.)
Arvidsson - 165 - 1.45-1.45-2.9
Danault 149- 0.4-0.8-1.2 (Needs to go)
Kaliyev 144 - 2.49-1.25-3.74
Brown 130 0.46-0.92-1.38 (Needs to go)

When I say "Needs to go" they can get mop up minutes on the second unit. But they need to be off the top unit.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Problem is, unless you're OVIE or someone of that magnitude, you're too easy to defend. To predictable and not effective enough.

NOOOOOO say it ain't so..........freaking thing I've been saying the past goddamn 4 pages....

 

[BigKing]

Problem is, unless you're OVIE or someone of that magnitude, you're too easy to defend. To predictable and not effective enough.

The Kings' problem is they lack elite playmakers and elite shooters.
They have guys who know how to do it and can do it at the NHL level. But they don't have elite talent.
They don't have a Datsyuk or a Makar or a Crosby or an Ovechkin or a Kucherov.
Nor do they have a true netfront guy.
Their established PP QB has been out most of the year.

It's a mess.

I do think the team needs more Kaliyev and less Iafallo.

Top Kings forwards in minutes
Player Minutes G/60 A/60 P/60
Kopitar 251 - 1.43-3.57-5,0
Kempe 212 - 1.7-2.26-3.96
Iafallo - 203 - 0.59-0.89-1.48 (Needs to go.)
Arvidsson - 165 - 1.45-1.45-2.9
Danault 149- 0.4-0.8-1.2 (Needs to go)
Kaliyev 144 - 2.49-1.25-3.74
Brown 130 0.46-0.92-1.38 (Needs to go)

When I say "Needs to go" they can get mop up minutes on the second unit. But they need to be off the top unit.

I kind of don't care that they are both right shots, but Spence and Durzi are far and away the two best offensive defenseman on the team and it is pointless to save Spence for the 2nd unit when they only get 10 seconds anyways. This is where the lack of offensive skill on the backend, especially at LD, really comes out. Pretty sure they are rolling with 4 forwards all season.

The guys I want most on the PP seem to line up with the numbers you posted so eye test is meeting stats: Kopitar/Kempe/Arvidsson/Kaliyev and then I need Durzi or Spence. Now I have to use a forward on the point though and who is my net front presence with that lineup? While I like Kaliyev's offensive IQ, I've basically got one passing forward, three shoot-first guys and then Durzi who isn't shy about teeing it up either.

So I get not loading up all of the shooters on one unit so the 2nd unit isn't just a bunch of muckers but the 2nd unit rarely gets out there so we continue to see Iafallo eating minutes.

We, or one person, can argue about what makes Kaliyev's shot special but I think everyone is in agreement that he has a special shot. It was basically him and Caufield for best shot not yet in the NHL prior to Caufield joining Montreal last season. We saw it on the PP in Colorado when he put one off the pipe from long-distance. They eventually need to get to a point where he is being utilized extensively on PP1.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I kind of don't care that they are both right shots, but Spence and Durzi are far and away the two best offensive defenseman on the team and it is pointless to save Spence for the 2nd unit when they only get 10 seconds anyways. This is where the lack of offensive skill on the backend, especially at LD, really comes out. Pretty sure they are rolling with 4 forwards all season.

The guys I want most on the PP seem to line up with the numbers you posted so eye test is meeting stats: Kopitar/Kempe/Arvidsson/Kaliyev and then I need Durzi or Spence. Now I have to use a forward on the point though and who is my net front presence with that lineup? While I like Kaliyev's offensive IQ, I've basically got one passing forward, three shoot-first guys and then Durzi who isn't shy about teeing it up either.

So I get not loading up all of the shooters on one unit so the 2nd unit isn't just a bunch of muckers but the 2nd unit rarely gets out there so we continue to see Iafallo eating minutes.

We, or one person, can argue about what makes Kaliyev's shot special but I think everyone is in agreement that he has a special shot. It was basically him and Caufield for best shot not yet in the NHL prior to Caufield joining Montreal last season. We saw it on the PP in Colorado when he put one off the pipe from long-distance. They eventually need to get to a point where he is being utilized extensively on PP1.

Perfect world, PP1 gets a minute, PP2 gets a minute,

PP1 - Kempe, Kopitar, Kaliyev, Durzi, an Iafallo, Brown, Danault, Lemieux, Vilardi, for front net,

Put Kempe and Kaliyev on the wings, Kopitar as the bumper, and Durzi as the high point guy...

PP2 - Spence, Arvidsson, Byfield, then who.....I mean Danault, Brown, Kupari, Lizotte, you gotta pick two....

Same set up, except you use Arvidsson and let's say Iafallo on the wings, Spence as the high point, Byfield as the bumper, etc.

Kings absolutely need one or two more high skilled guys, that's where Byfield, Vilardi, Kupari, Fagemo, Turcotte, etc all come into play

And I am going to catch a lot of shit for this post......but it is what it is, the bigger question is, what do you do when Kaliyev is proven not to that Ovechkin shot?

 

[MBH]

Kings top defense in PP minutes
Player - TOI - G/60 - P/60 | GF/60
Durzi 138 - .87- 6.07 | 6.07
Doughty 123 - 1.94 - 6.32 | 6.8
Roy 50 - 0 - 2.41 | 3.61
Clague 37 - 0 - 4.79 | 4.79
Spence 30 - 0 - 3.96 | 5.94

Doughty seems to be the best.
Durzi second.
Spence third.

But does anyone think LA is going to go Doughty-Durzi-Spence next year?
Someone's gotta play D, right?

 

[MBH]

Perfect world, PP1 gets a minute, PP2 gets a minute,

PP1 - Kempe, Kopitar, Kaliyev, Durzi, an Iafallo, Brown, Danault, Lemieux, Vilardi, for front net,

Put Kempe and Kaliyev on the wings, Kopitar as the bumper, and Durzi as the high point guy...

PP2 - Spence, Arvidsson, Byfield, then who.....I mean Danault, Brown, Kupari, Lizotte, you gotta pick two....

Same set up, except you use Arvidsson and let's say Iafallo on the wings, Spence as the high point, Byfield as the bumper, etc.

Kings absolutely need one or two more high skilled guys, that's where Byfield, Vilardi, Kupari, Fagemo, Turcotte, etc all come into play

And I am going to catch a lot of shit for this post......but it is what it is, the bigger question is, what do you do when Kaliyev is proven not to that Ovechkin shot?

Still, even if he isnt OVIE, you gotta have a shooter.
I think you could put Frk in there and score goals on the PP. To me, he's unquestionably the best suited player for that role in the organization.
You just gotta live with weak 5 on 5 play. Is Frk worse than Brown at 5 on 5? Nope.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Might even look at Kaliyev in front, he can tip shots with the best of them, but you need to be able to replace him on the wing

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Kings top defense in PP minutes
Player - TOI - G/60 - P/60 | GF/60
Durzi 138 - .87- 6.07 | 6.07
Doughty 123 - 1.94 - 6.32 | 6.8
Roy 50 - 0 - 2.41 | 3.61
Clague 37 - 0 - 4.79 | 4.79
Spence 30 - 0 - 3.96 | 5.94

Doughty seems to be the best.
Durzi second.
Spence third.

But does anyone think LA is going to go Doughty-Durzi-Spence next year?
Someone's gotta play D, right?

Doughty Durzi Spence on one side, Roy, Andersson Bjornfott down the other....

This whole RHD - LHD is a relatively new....thought process etc

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Still, even if he isnt OVIE, you gotta have a shooter.
I think you could put Frk in there and score goals on the PP. To me, he's unquestionably the best suited player for that role in the organization.
You just gotta live with weak 5 on 5 play. Is Frk worse than Brown at 5 on 5? Nope.

And when 5 on 5 is the majority of the game, I don't think that's the sacrifice you make.

 

[MBH]

And when 5 on 5 is the majority of the game, I don't think that's the sacrifice you make.

I think it can be worth it IF you trust his linemates.

Could you go:
Frk-Lizotte-Lemieux?

Byfield's too much a mess to try to carry Frk.

What about
Moore-Danault-Frk?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I think it can be worth it IF you trust his linemates.

Could you go:
Frk-Lizotte-Lemieux?

Byfield's too much a mess to try to carry Frk.

What about
Moore-Danault-Frk?

1st one, no...Lizotte is a goddamn buzz saw......but Frk is an anchor.....he would pretty much kill any line he is on.

2nd one, disrupts a great 2nd line.....

As much as Frk has a cannon of a shot, there's a reason he hasn't stuck in the NHL in a decade......

Agree, we need more shooters, but I think you use Fagemo, Turcotte, Thomas, Madden, whomever else we have over Frk any day of the week, twice on Sundays

 

[head eyes]

Hahaha jesus christ. Kaliyev's shot isn't elite, but he can tip shots wtih the best of them now?

 

[MBH]

Doughty Durzi Spence on one side, Roy, Andersson Bjornfott down the other....

This whole RHD - LHD is a relatively new....thought process etc

That's a really small. really young and weak defense.
LD
Roy - 6'1 200
Anderson - 6'0 195
Bjornfot - 6'0 205
RD
Doughty 6'1 202
Durzi 6'0 195
Spence 5'10 180

Kings have some interesting choices to make this year.

 

[MBH]

1st one, no...Lizotte is a goddamn buzz saw......but Frk is an anchor.....he would pretty much kill any line he is on.

2nd one, disrupts a great 2nd line.....

As much as Frk has a cannon of a shot, there's a reason he hasn't stuck in the NHL in a decade......

Agree, we need more shooters, but I think you use Fagemo, Turcotte, Thomas, Madden, whomever else we have over Frk any day of the week, twice on Sundays

Maybe Fagemo - though I've never watched him.
Ontario stats
Frk- 37G
Fagemo - 27G
Madden - 14G
Turcotte - 6G
Thomas - 4G

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

That's a really small. really young and weak defense.
LD
Roy - 6'1 200
Anderson - 6'0 195
Bjornfot - 6'0 205
RD
Doughty 6'1 202
Durzi 6'0 195
Spence 5'10 180

Kings have some interesting choices to make this year.

Game is changing towards that, you want D who can skate, and move the puck, if you can get that WITH size, then great, if not, I'd rather have a guy who can skate and move the puck, vs a guy who can pound on a lower back with a cross check

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Hahaha jesus christ. Kaliyev's shot isn't elite, but he can tip shots wtih the best of them now?

Bet you didn't realize 18% of his shots on goals have come from tips....naw, you wouldn't know that.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Maybe Fagemo - though I've never watched him.
Ontario stats
Frk- 37G
Fagemo - 27G
Madden - 14G
Turcotte - 6G
Thomas - 4G

Again, AHL stats don't necessarily translate to NHL stats, reason why Frk is a lifer in the AHL

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Bet you didn't realize 18% of his shots on goals have come from tips....naw, you wouldn't know that.

Well shit, got that part wrong didn't I, his shooting percentage is 18% off of tips...

 

[MBH]

Game is changing towards that, you want D who can skate, and move the puck, if you can get that WITH size, then great, if not, I'd rather have a guy who can skate and move the puck, vs a guy who can pound on a lower back with a cross check

Tampa's defense
Erik Cernak 6'3 230
Victor Hedman 6'6 241
Ryan McDonagh 6'1 215
Mikhail Sergachev 6'3 215
Jan Rutta 6'3 204
David Savard 6'2 233

Who'd they play in the finals against? Montreal?
Shea Weber 6'4 230
Alex Romanov 5'11 185
Brett Kulak 6'2 190
Joel Edmunsson 6'4 227
Ben Chiarot 6'3 226
Jeff Petry 6'3 201

How about the year before?
Bogosian 6'2 200
Erik Cernak 6'3 230
Victor Hedman 6'6 241
Ryan McDonagh 6'1 215
Mikhail Sergachev 6'3 215
Shattenkirk 6'0 212

The Year before?
Blues
Bouwmeeser 6-4 206
Dunn - 6-0 203
Edmundson - 6-4 227
Gunnarsson - 6-2 198
Parayko - 6-6 230
Peitrangelo - 6-3 210

So, while guys like Makar and Hughes are talked about as the hot new trend, until we start seeing these guys have success in the playoffs, I'm not sure it's anything established.