GDT: 2021-22 season game 55 LA Kings vs Dallas Stars @5:30pm 3/2/22

[Axl Rhoadz]

Todd is just a bad coach that has a good team that’s hiding his serious ineptitude at coaching

Wait, I thought Yawney has been behind the bench for the last two losses -- worst games played in prob two months. Players must really like Todd cause they weren't willing to hide Yawney's ineptitude?

Dumb...

 

[Sol]

Wait, I thought Yawney has been behind the bench for the last two losses -- worst games played in prob two months. Players must really like Todd cause they weren't willing to hide Yawney's ineptitude?

Dumb...

speaking of dumb I’m glad you decided to comment, do you think Yawney preaches his game plan or Todd’s?

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

speaking of dumb I’m glad you decided to comment, do you think Yawney preaches his game plan or Todd’s?

Did the players forget to hide the ineptitude because they didn't see Todd's face back there?

 

[Sol]

Did the players forget to hide the ineptitude because they didn't see Todd's face back there?

or maybe it’s been a running theme since the coaching staff has been here. Or do you not have the capacity to comprehend that?

you don’t have to respond, it was a rhetorical question.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Oh come on, Yawney is just a placeholder for TM. ALthough that does kind of beg the question of team records overall with coaches out with covid.

I do think it’s kind of funny in a dark humor manner that the defensive coach was behind the bench for us getting our faces ripped off though.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

or maybe it’s been a running theme since the coaching staff has been here. Or do you not have the capacity to comprehend that?

you don’t have to respond, it was a rhetorical question.

What's the running theme? Help me out, as you've already pointed out I'm a bit slow. Before these last two losses, 12 games over .500, good enough for 2nd in the division. But we are saying that if we fire TM and bench Brown, we would be in even a better spot?

 

[AbsentMojo]

Made up some categories to evaluate TM - looks like some of my report cards
5x5 System: A
Team game to game consistency: A-
5x5 Line Combos: B-
PP Personnel: C
PP system: D
PK in general: D
In game adjustments: D
Game to game adjustments: C
Player development: D

 

[bmr]

Grundstrom is not a solution for third line. His hockey IQ is too low and his hockey skills are too limited.

Grundstrom has a great shot and is really good at the North-South think but I feel like outside of the physicality he is not a good fit for the team. It's tough to really say because he hasn't had a full season with the Kings.

 

[bmr]

Just a random thought I was thinking about last night while watching the game -- is it me or does it seem like Byfield gets kicked out of at least 50% of the faceoffs he takes?

I saw Byfield working with Kopitar on draws. The kid definitely has a desire to learn and get better. Having Kopitar and Danault will be huge for him.

 

[Bandit]

What's the running theme? Help me out, as you've already pointed out I'm a bit slow. Before these last two losses, 12 games over .500, good enough for 2nd in the division. But we are saying that if we fire TM and bench Brown, we would be in even a better spot?

You build the Ark before the rain. You don't wait until the water is up to your nostrils before identifying you need to do something.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Made up some categories to evaluate TM - looks like some of my report cards
5x5 System: A
Team game to game consistency: A-
5x5 Line Combos: B-
PP Personnel: C
PP system: D
PK in general: D
In game adjustments: D
Game to game adjustments: C
Player development: D

Curious how you figured out player development......

Kempe, Lizotte, Kaliyev, Bjornfoot, Andersson, Durzi, Moore? (Moore is probably stretching it a bit)

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Curious how you figured out player development......

Kempe, Lizotte, Kaliyev, Bjornfoot, Andersson, Durzi, Moore? (Moore is probably stretching it a bit)

A little OT but I'd put Moore--as well as Danault, Arvidsson--on the pro scouting more than development.

And to me they're emblematic of what the Kings' were going for identity-wise--high energy, tenacious/aggressive.

 

[Schmooley]

Curious how you figured out player development......

Kempe, Lizotte, Kaliyev, Bjornfoot, Andersson, Durzi, Moore? (Moore is probably stretching it a bit)

Kempe took what 5-6 years to realize hes a top six winger and not a bottom six center.
Lizotte came in older so not totally developed here but along with Kaliyev, Bjornfot, and Durzi are 4th line forwards and bottom pair defenseman in deployment and minutes. Andersson is trying to find his way though had shared development with the Rangers and Moore was developed by the Leafs.
Development is not so strong but there is time to turn it around.

 

[cyclones22]

They have a condensed schedule down the stretch don't they? It's a concern.

It' something ridiculous like the last 27 games of the season over the next 58 days. Almost a game every other day. Which for a fan, is cool because it's a lot of hockey to watch. But for a player, probably not so much.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

You build the Ark before the rain. You don't wait until the water is up to your nostrils before identifying you need to do something.

I'm still not smart enough to get your point -- if any of you think that TM is going anywhere while this team holds a playoff spot and especially if they actually make the playoffs, you should be looking in the mirror when you want to question intelligence.

 

[kingsfan28]

I'd like to know how much Hakanpaa paid the officials last night, because my god, was he just a football player in disguised with all the tackling going on. 3 straight shifts he got away with that crap , that completely pissed off Kopi, which really rare. He tackled Doughty in the corner and took his helmet off on the late pp too.

 

[AbsentMojo]

Curious how you figured out player development......

Kempe, Lizotte, Kaliyev, Bjornfoot, Andersson, Durzi, Moore? (Moore is probably stretching it a bit)

Im thinking of player development at the nhl level (not overall) that had nothing to do with injury replacement - specifically Kaliyev, Byfield, lack of 2nd chance for Vilardi.. so what was on my mind was rookie deployment - not at all happy with that.. i shouldve named that category better. Im curious to see how you would rate each of those categories - do you agree with the other assessments?

 

[Sol]

What's the running theme? Help me out, as you've already pointed out I'm a bit slow. Before these last two losses, 12 games over .500, good enough for 2nd in the division. But we are saying that if we fire TM and bench Brown, we would be in even a better spot?

Todd isn’t a good coach because he never adjusts as a coach. His lineups are bad. His toi distribution is bad. Our PP is bad. Our PK is bad. The only thing the Kings do well is 5v5 but the kings have never shown any adjustments when being outplayed. And in Todd’s career he’s been steamrolled in crunch time continually and we see that to this day that when the Kings get outplayed they never really recover.

lastly, you think the Kings are doing good because of him rather than the team being talented enough to hide in numerous inadequacies

 

[kingsfan28]

I just can't get over how inept our coaches are. It shouldn't surprise me anymore, but it does. Mind boggling.

At 3-2 and Dallas all over them, a timeout to just stop the momentum would've been nice. Maybe even tell them to lock the remaining 2-3 minutes down, draw up a play, anything just to break up the pace of the game. How about just have them ice it a bunch of time to disrupt the flow. With fresh guys on the ice, it wouldn't have mattered.

 

[AbsentMojo]

Todd isn’t a good coach because he never adjusts as a coach. His lineups are bad. His toi distribution is bad. Our PP is bad. Our PK is bad. The only thing the Kings do well is 5v5 but the kings have never shown any adjustments when being outplayed. And in Todd’s career he’s been steamrolled in crunch time continually and we see that to this day that when the Kings get outplayed they never really recover.

lastly, you think the Kings are doing good because of him rather than the team being talented enough to hide in numerous inadequacies

TM is conservative to a fault... there is always the tension between what worked in the past and new ideas for what may be better now and in the future - if you are too far in either direction it will be a failure. DS leaned conservative - but had some creativity when he brought up Nolan and King.. Im not sure TM makes that same move. (edit: to be fair, im sure it was a colaboration between DS and DL, but they were always on the same page it seemed)

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

when the Kings get outplayed they never really recover.

Most teams that get outplayed, usually lose. It's not just the Kings, FYI.

lastly, you think the Kings are doing good because of him rather than the team being talented enough to hide in numerous inadequacies

No, but thanks for putting words into my mouth. I think the Kings are 'doing good' for many reason. Fantastic off-season acquisitions, injecting some more youth into the lineup...and the system that TM has put in place usually out-paces most teams on most nights (not the last two). This is some of the most entertaining hockey I've seen in years, and that goes back to the Sutter days. Do I think TM is entirely responsible? Nope. Do I think TM has a part in it? Absolutely.

 

[King'sPawn]

A little OT but I'd put Moore--as well as Danault, Arvidsson--on the pro scouting more than development.

Sorry if I'm confused, but I have some people on ignore. Is there someone really arguing Moore + older players in development?

I still don't know how people are still confused as to why the development is in question. The biggest success story in the last decade+ as far as FORWARDS is Tyler Toffoli. Kempe, for as much as people love him, still hasn't surpassed Toffoli's best season. And Kempe is older than when Toffoli achieved it. Beyond that, these are the key forwards that have come through the pipeline and have thus been "developed":

Toffoli - already mentioned
Kempe - on pace for more goals, but fewer points, than Toffoli's best season
Simmonds - Arguably better than Kempe. Mostly exploded offensively once he left LA
Pearson - career high of 44 points in 80 games.
Clifford - Everyone loved him, rightfully so. But he was a bottom-six forward.
Lizotte - 4th liner. I love him, but he's not a top-six player.
King - Filled in as a second liner, but was mostly a bottom-six player.
Kupari - He's not produced much as far as his skillset
Kaliyev - He's on the fourth line. As a frequent poster likes to say, to defend him being on the fourth line, "He hasn't done jack to deserve more time"
Byfield - Kept on the bottom six for now. Out of all the players on the list, he's the one who SHOULD make the top of the list, and he very well might
Vilardi - Pushed down to the bottom six after he struggled for half a season at center, now they're trying to transition him to wing. Will he get an opportunity in the top-six?
Turcotte - Also hopeful to be moved to wing so he has a chance in the top six. But once more, we might just see him more in a middle/bottom six role. Who knows when he'll get an opportunity and how will he do?
Nolan - Enforcer type
Wagner - Speedy bottom-six player
Fagemo - Middle-six volume shooter
Dowd - Bottom-six forward
Grundstrom - So far he's a middle to bottom-six player
Andersson - Again, a middle to bottom-six player
Amadio - Depth forward
Andreoff - Bottom-six forward
Shore - Bottom-six forward

Iafallo was NHL ready at the time he was signed. He didn't spend a minute in the minors and was essentially playing at Kopitar's hip the moment he stole the puck in preseason to lead to a goal. Schenn was in the system for a year before being traded away. Kubalik came once to development camp, had a lousy season in the OHL, then went back overseas.

These are the forwards the Kings have developed or are currently developing. And the argument is they haven't had a chance to get talent. Of the players listed above:
7 are first round picks
6 are second round picks
4 are third round picks
1 is a fourth round pick
2 are seventh round picks
1 is undrafted

So, the ability to develop top six forwards is questionable at best. You can't even argue they've lacked the talent - over half the forwards they've developed are in the top two rounds. But beyond three or four players who have played in the top-six since, maybe, 2007?

 

[Sol]

Most teams that get outplayed, usually lose. It's not just the Kings, FYI.



No, but thanks for putting words into my mouth. I think the Kings are 'doing good' for many reason. Fantastic off-season acquisitions, injecting some more youth into the lineup...and the system that TM has put in place usually out-paces most teams on most nights (not the last two). This is some of the most entertaining hockey I've seen in years, and that goes back to the Sutter days. Do I think TM is entirely responsible? Nope. Do I think TM has a part in it? Absolutely.

Good teams tend to push back when getting outplayed but rarely does that happen with the Kings. Look at Todd’s record with other teams. He fails when there’s pushback consistently.

You’re the one who used the record to suggest that it’s due to Todd’s amazing coaching that the Kings are doing well. Maybe make better detailed arguments rather than lazy ones since your lack of detail made it seem that way

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Im thinking of player development at the nhl level (not overall) that had nothing to do with injury replacement - specifically Kaliyev, Byfield, lack of 2nd chance for Vilardi.. so what was on my mind was rookie deployment - not at all happy with that.. i shouldve named that category better. Im curious to see how you would rate each of those categories - do you agree with the other assessments?

Will answer later on tonight, after my class.....I think some were spot on, but player development is player development injury or not, you might be thinking about player deployment for tye youth etc.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Sorry if I'm confused, but I have some people on ignore. Is there someone really arguing Moore + older players in development?

I still don't know how people are still confused as to why the development is in question. The biggest success story in the last decade+ as far as FORWARDS is Tyler Toffoli. Kempe, for as much as people love him, still hasn't surpassed Toffoli's best season. And Kempe is older than when Toffoli achieved it. Beyond that, these are the key forwards that have come through the pipeline and have thus been "developed":

Toffoli - already mentioned
Kempe - on pace for more goals, but fewer points, than Toffoli's best season
Simmonds - Arguably better than Kempe. Mostly exploded offensively once he left LA
Pearson - career high of 44 points in 80 games.
Clifford - Everyone loved him, rightfully so. But he was a bottom-six forward.
Lizotte - 4th liner. I love him, but he's not a top-six player.
King - Filled in as a second liner, but was mostly a bottom-six player.
Kupari - He's not produced much as far as his skillset
Kaliyev - He's on the fourth line. As a frequent poster likes to say, to defend him being on the fourth line, "He hasn't done jack to deserve more time"
Byfield - Kept on the bottom six for now. Out of all the players on the list, he's the one who SHOULD make the top of the list, and he very well might
Vilardi - Pushed down to the bottom six after he struggled for half a season at center, now they're trying to transition him to wing. Will he get an opportunity in the top-six?
Turcotte - Also hopeful to be moved to wing so he has a chance in the top six. But once more, we might just see him more in a middle/bottom six role. Who knows when he'll get an opportunity and how will he do?
Nolan - Enforcer type
Wagner - Speedy bottom-six player
Fagemo - Middle-six volume shooter
Dowd - Bottom-six forward
Grundstrom - So far he's a middle to bottom-six player
Andersson - Again, a middle to bottom-six player
Amadio - Depth forward
Andreoff - Bottom-six forward
Shore - Bottom-six forward

Iafallo was NHL ready at the time he was signed. He didn't spend a minute in the minors and was essentially playing at Kopitar's hip the moment he stole the puck in preseason to lead to a goal. Schenn was in the system for a year before being traded away. Kubalik came once to development camp, had a lousy season in the OHL, then went back overseas.

These are the forwards the Kings have developed or are currently developing. And the argument is they haven't had a chance to get talent. Of the players listed above:
7 are first round picks
6 are second round picks
4 are third round picks
1 is a fourth round pick
2 are seventh round picks
1 is undrafted

So, the ability to develop top six forwards is questionable at best. You can't even argue they've lacked the talent - over half the forwards they've developed are in the top two rounds. But beyond three or four players who have played in the top-six since, maybe, 2007?

LMAO all those words, to take something no one was arguing.....

Not sure how you put Lias Andersson in there under LA Kings Development, but not sure what you were arguing for to begin with either.