Prospect Info: 2021-22 Prospect Thread (CHL, NCAA, Europe)

[Foppa2118]

It’s fine

This is my response to most of the coaches the Avs bring in for their AHL affiliates.

It's weird, the Avs never seem that interested in bringing in a highly respected AHL coach, or an up and coming guy. And it's never someone that seems like they could be the next Avs coach. It's always some journeyman type that you know will be there a few years before they move on to another opportunity, and they replace him with someone similar.

I think it's just part of their budgetary philosophy. They don't like to spend a lot of money outside of the NHL roster. That's why the scouting department is smaller than other teams (even Klip acknowledged this) that's why their practice rink is old and shitty, and I think that's also why they almost always hire rookie NHL coaches, because they don't cost that much.

 

[tigervixxxen]

It’s that but also there’s only so much a coach can do when the development system is run a certain way. I really don’t mind Cronin, he’s a very detail oriented guy and seems to enjoy teaching. They could do far worse. But offense really not a great focus down there either.

 

[Foppa2118]

It’s that but also there’s only so much a coach can do when the development system is run a certain way. I really don’t mind Cronin, he’s a very detail oriented guy and seems to enjoy teaching. They could do far worse. But offense really not a great focus down there either.

Which is odd, because high tempo offensive attacks off the rush, is always a staple of Avalanche hockey.

The Avs are always more of an offensive team than a defensive one. I think by design, to take advantage of being used to playing at altitude.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Old school ideals don’t lead to dynamic offense.

 

[DanishAvsfan]

This is my response to most of the coaches the Avs bring in for their AHL affiliates.

It's weird, the Avs never seem that interested in bringing in a highly respected AHL coach, or an up and coming guy. And it's never someone that seems like they could be the next Avs coach. It's always some journeyman type that you know will be there a few years before they move on to another opportunity, and they replace him with someone similar.

I think it's just part of their budgetary philosophy. They don't like to spend a lot of money outside of the NHL roster. That's why the scouting department is smaller than other teams (even Klip acknowledged this) that's why their practice rink is old and shitty, and I think that's also why they almost always hire rookie NHL coaches, because they don't cost that much.

I have thought so too for a while. If that is indeed the case I find it a very strange appproach. Why spend millions of dollars on the team to optimise it only to deliberately limit it in other ways.

 

[Pokecheque]

I have thought so too for a while. If that is indeed the case I find it a very strange appproach. Why spend millions of dollars on the team to optimise it only to deliberately limit it in other ways.

While the Avs don’t appear to be an organization that believes in big-ticket coaches, it’s not like they’re really chintzing on them either. They’ve hired a number of former players as developmental coaches. The latest is Peter Budaj and Brett Clark just joined Cronin’s staff.

Not really trying to argue here, just asking. What does “spending big” on an AHL coach really look like? I’m sure there are better coaches than Greg Cronin out there, but he still seems like the best option available. If you want a more successful minor league bench boss, you’ll have to wait until Anaheim fires Dallas Eakins.

 

[DanishAvsfan]

While the Avs don’t appear to be an organization that believes in big-ticket coaches, it’s not like they’re really chintzing on them either. They’ve hired a number of former players as developmental coaches. The latest is Peter Budaj and Brett Clark just joined Cronin’s staff.

Not really trying to argue here, just asking. What does “spending big” on an AHL coach really look like? I’m sure there are better coaches than Greg Cronin out there, but he still seems like the best option available. If you want a more successful minor league bench boss, you’ll have to wait until Anaheim fires Dallas Eakins.

Sure, I see your point. I was not really thinking about AHL coaches. I was more thinking about investment in scouting, which appears to be a fairly big weakness at least when you look at the record outside the first round and a few second round hits.

 

[Foppa2118]

While the Avs don’t appear to be an organization that believes in big-ticket coaches, it’s not like they’re really chintzing on them either. They’ve hired a number of former players as developmental coaches. The latest is Peter Budaj and Brett Clark just joined Cronin’s staff.

Not really trying to argue here, just asking. What does “spending big” on an AHL coach really look like? I’m sure there are better coaches than Greg Cronin out there, but he still seems like the best option available. If you want a more successful minor league bench boss, you’ll have to wait until Anaheim fires Dallas Eakins.

Budaj and Clark were rookie development guys. It's doubtful they commanded a big salary.

I don't think anyone used the phrase "spending big" regarding this issue. It's more that they keep the purse strings tight on most expenses outside the NHL roster, relative to other teams.

Not saying it's necessarily a bad thing. Business wise maybe it's a smart move. The team had a similar approach under PL pre cap. They opened the vault for their star players, but then pinched all the pennies for the bottom six role player types, and let them walk as UFA's, or traded them when they were due a decent sized raise.

 

[Pokecheque]

Sure, I see your point. I was not really thinking about AHL coaches. I was more thinking about investment in scouting, which appears to be a fairly big weakness at least when you look at the record outside the first round and a few second round hits.

I feel like the bigger problem is not so much the Avs' financial resources committed to scouting so much as the people they have in place. That IMO has been Sakic's biggest weakness as GM thus far. Drafting and development should've been burned to the ground and built back up. A conservative, methodical approach can be beneficial in a lot of instances but to let Pracey have another draft after 2013 and then only making very superficial changes beyond replacing him, they needed to do way more than that.

I'm sure they could spend more in terms of scouting, but I'd rather they cast a more discerning eye at the job their amateur scouts did (especially in Europe) and make changes where necessary. Hopefully under Klipp we'll see something to that end, but I ain't holding my breath.

Also, the pro scouts deserve a thorough ass-chewing if they played any part in the three deadline acquisitions last season.

Budaj and Clark were rookie development guys. It's doubtful they commanded a big salary.

I don't think anyone used the phrase "spending big" regarding this issue. It's more that they keep the purse strings tight on most expenses outside the NHL roster, relative to other teams.

Not saying it's necessarily a bad thing. Business wise maybe it's a smart move. The team had a similar approach under PL pre cap. They opened the vault for their star players, but then pinched all the pennies for the bottom six role player types, and let them walk as UFA's, or traded them when they were due a decent sized raise.

I get that, I'm sure Reinprecht, Clark, Willsie, and Budaj are not getting paid a ton, my point is that while they don't appear to pay individual coaches a lot (including Bednar), they do seem to be putting an emphasis on development. My only question is whether they got the right guys picking the talent, they certainly have a lot of guys working on the next stage...but if they don't get the picks right in the first place, then the latter seems kinda pointless.

I still wonder what the relationship between the Avalanche and Eagles is like. The owner in Loveland is still literally holding the ECHL championship trophy hostage, part of me wonders how much he cares about the development of talent as opposed to winning. It's a very fine line that Cronin, Billington, and the rest appear to be walking well enough for now.

 

[Qurpiz]

Today I was reminded of the 2014 draft where the Avs picked at 23rd overall, 2 picks before Boston snatched David f***ING Pastrnak, Conner Bleackley.

I mean look at this
Elite Prospects - NHL Entry Draft 2014

 

[tigervixxxen]

I feel like the bigger problem is not so much the Avs' financial resources committed to scouting so much as the people they have in place. That IMO has been Sakic's biggest weakness as GM thus far. Drafting and development should've been burned to the ground and built back up. A conservative, methodical approach can be beneficial in a lot of instances but to let Pracey have another draft after 2013 and then only making very superficial changes beyond replacing him, they needed to do way more than that.

I'm sure they could spend more in terms of scouting, but I'd rather they cast a more discerning eye at the job their amateur scouts did (especially in Europe) and make changes where necessary. Hopefully under Klipp we'll see something to that end, but I ain't holding my breath.

Also, the pro scouts deserve a thorough ass-chewing if they played any part in the three deadline acquisitions last season.



I get that, I'm sure Reinprecht, Clark, Willsie, and Budaj are not getting paid a ton, my point is that while they don't appear to pay individual coaches a lot (including Bednar), they do seem to be putting an emphasis on development. My only question is whether they got the right guys picking the talent, they certainly have a lot of guys working on the next stage...but if they don't get the picks right in the first place, then the latter seems kinda pointless.

I still wonder what the relationship between the Avalanche and Eagles is like. The owner in Loveland is still literally holding the ECHL championship trophy hostage, part of me wonders how much he cares about the development of talent as opposed to winning. It's a very fine line that Cronin, Billington, and the rest appear to be walking well enough for now.

I’d like to see some guys with a track record of development success rather than just a few former players. Maybe they enjoy their jobs but you need something more than that. Also might be nice to have a director of development who has been part of a successful operation elsewhere. They need to understand what a development plan is that goes beyond “we’re just being patient”. Some very successful junior coaches might be one avenue or promote someone from a system that knows what they are doing as their profession.

Drafting Pastrnak is one thing, knowing what to f***ing do with him is another. He played in the NHL the year he was drafted, let’s not forget.

 

[henchman21]

While on the note of scouting and development. Avs continue to tweak things... Budaj being added for the goalies. Halpenny and Porter to the scouting staff. I think you can reasonably question the people in place, but I don't think the commitment should be questioned. Avs have committed a lot of resources and continue to look to make changes.

On Cronin's new deal... actually wouldn't shock me to see him follow up Bednar if the Avs stumble, at least on an interim basis.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

It’s that but also there’s only so much a coach can do when the development system is run a certain way. I really don’t mind Cronin, he’s a very detail oriented guy and seems to enjoy teaching. They could do far worse. But offense really not a great focus down there either.

But in all honesty, do the Eagles have enough offensive talent for it to be a focus down there?

As for Cronin, I don't know a lot about him but one thing that really caught my attention was an interview Graves did where they asked him about playing in the AHL for Cronin. Ryan said Cro was pretty blunt and you knew exactly where you and your game stood in his opinion. Sounds like he is able to have constructive conversations and critiques without it turning into a shit-show like Torts has done with so many players. Graves gives Cronin a lot of credit for him finding his game to the degree he was able to do so.

 

[tigervixxxen]

But in all honesty, do the Eagles have enough offensive talent for it to be a focus down there?

As for Cronin, I don't know a lot about him but one thing that really caught my attention was an interview Graves did where they asked him about playing in the AHL for Cronin. Ryan said Cro was pretty blunt and you knew exactly where you and your game stood in his opinion. Sounds like he is able to have constructive conversations and critiques without it turning into a shit-show like Torts has done with so many players. Graves gives Cronin a lot of credit for him finding his game to the degree he was able to do so.

It should be considered because prospects are judged by the boxscore.

Cronin is very honest in pregame interviews, I can only imagine.

 

[S E P H]

Halpenny and Porter to the scouting staff.

Who are these lads, are they good, and which leagues are they going to cover?

Omg, saw that Halpenny is coming from the Sabres organisation and that effin' scares me. They have a worse draft department than the freakin' Avs.

 

[henchman21]

Halpenny used to run the show in Erie before Buffalo. OHL scout… likely picking up Hepple’s side duties there. I think we’ve chatted on Porter before… WHL guy.

 

[McMetal]

Well it's nice to see some fresh voices being added to the CHL group. I've been saying for a while they need to revamp the way they look at things for that league. Not sure about those guys specifically obviously, only time will tell. But it's good that they recognize there may be a problem there and some new blood is definitely in order.

Now all we need is an extra scout or two for Europe...

 

[tigervixxxen]

The only guys drafted the last few years from the OHL basically were Timmins and Foudy

 

[henchman21]

The only guys drafted the last few years from the OHL basically were Timmins and Foudy

Stienburg would have fallen under OHL area scouts and Saigeon was from the OHL.

 

[Nihiliste]

The 2015 2nds just kill me.

we’ve spent draft picks so badly where at times randoms on this board could have made better picks

 

[Hasbro]

The only guys drafted the last few years from the OHL basically were Timmins and Foudy

Not Bad.

 

[Pokecheque]

While on the note of scouting and development. Avs continue to tweak things... Budaj being added for the goalies. Halpenny and Porter to the scouting staff. I think you can reasonably question the people in place, but I don't think the commitment should be questioned. Avs have committed a lot of resources and continue to look to make changes.

On Cronin's new deal... actually wouldn't shock me to see him follow up Bednar if the Avs stumble, at least on an interim basis.

Yeah, it's not so much commitment to me as it is their willingness to make wholesale changes. It's the tweaking that kinda bothers me, more needed to be done to fix things after Pracey's Reign of Error between 2010-2014.

But...whatever, we'll see what Klipp does I suppose.

The only guys drafted the last few years from the OHL basically were Timmins and Foudy

Funny because didn't they draft heavy from the WHL and OHL under Pracey?

 

[henchman21]

Yeah, it's not so much commitment to me as it is their willingness to make wholesale changes. It's the tweaking that kinda bothers me, more needed to be done to fix things after Pracey's Reign of Error between 2010-2014.

But...whatever, we'll see what Klipp does I suppose.

I don't think the Avs will ever be a wholesale change sort of team. If you look over the years, they only incrementally change the front office... even in times of changes at the top. I would be in favor of a revamp, but I can shit in one hand and wish in the other....

 

[S E P H]

I don't think the Avs will ever be a wholesale change sort of team. If you look over the years, they only incrementally change the front office... even in times of changes at the top. I would be in favor of a revamp, but I can shit in one hand and wish in the other....

I am not going to call Hepple a bad scout (not going to call him a great one either) because I do think the Avs drafting improved when they hired him as a replacement. It might not be on the statistical or analytical level, but we did change the philosophy of OHL/CHL centres to more global mixture of picks. However, at the time when Pracey was the head of amateur scouting, Hepple was his assistant which means that even though Hepple had his own views, he studied a lot and probably learned a lot working under Pracey (especially considering that both of them came from the OHL region). So, I mention all of this for the fact that Pracey and Hepple weren't exactly different scouts in the end, both had their wild string of disaster picks, having similar scouting criteria (character), while necessarily hitting the first round pick. Klippenstein might not be an amazing head of scouting himself in the long run, but this draft already felt different besides the Makar pick. It will be tough to judge since we're at an area where Avs will trade picks more than keep them, but for all our fears of him going after the Max Jones' of this draft, they did almost the entire opposite.

 

[Hasbro]

Yeah, it's not so much commitment to me as it is their willingness to make wholesale changes. It's the tweaking that kinda bothers me, more needed to be done to fix things after Pracey's Reign of Error between 2010-2014.

But...whatever, we'll see what Klipp does I suppose.



Funny because didn't they draft heavy from the WHL and OHL under Pracey?

Pretty much exclusively.

It was just a bunch of North Americans and they’d take a token Swede in the 5th.

It does look like the drafting outside the top ten has improved though. Unless you hit on a Ryan O’Reilly it takes a few tears to see results.