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2021-2022 Around The League - Part VII

PAZ

PAZ

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Jul 14, 2011
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Foppa2118 said:
I'm not sure why my point is so hard to understand. Most every other team starts next season with a cap of $82.5M. Vegas essential now has a cap of $90.375M.

End of the day this is a positive for them or they wouldn't have done it.
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You could acquire every LTIR contract in the world and start with $120 mil cap and it doesn't make one difference in the lineup you're able to ice.

The only positive for them is that they're able to dump Dadonov's contract without paying any assets to a team that will be on his NTC list in a few weeks. They'll be dumping Weber's contract to a team like Ottawa or Arizona trying to reach the cap floor next year.
 
Foppa2118

Foppa2118

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Oct 3, 2003
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PAZ said:
You could acquire every LTIR contract in the world and start with $120 mil cap and it doesn't make one difference in the lineup you're able to ice.

The only positive for them is that they're able to dump Dadonov's contract without paying any assets to a team that will be on his NTC list in a few weeks. They'll be dumping Weber's contract to a team like Ottawa trying to reach the cap floor next year.
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Yeah and by dumping Dadonov they had to take Weber who would cost them $7.857M and put them over the cap even more than Dadonov, but now they're allowed to go over the cap by $7.857M because there's no expectation he'll play.

They're still $2.6M over the cap after the trade, and they have RFA's to sign.

The whole thing makes a complete mockery of the salary cap. It also brings us back to the pre lockout era where teams with rich owners were allowed to ice better teams by spending more. Which again defeats the whole purpose of the cap and the parity they shutdown an entire season to get.
 
PAZ

PAZ

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Jul 14, 2011
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Foppa2118 said:
Yeah and by dumping Dadonov they had to take Weber who would cost them $7.875M and put them over the cap even more than Dadonov, but now they're allowed to go over the cap by $7.875M because there's no expectation he'll play.

The whole thing makes a complete mockery of the salary cap. It also brings us back to the pre lockout era where teams with rich owners were allowed to ice better teams by spending more. Which again defeats the whole purpose of the cap and the parity they shutdown an entire season to get.
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Weber's contract is insured, it doesn't actually cost them 7.8 mil, teams need to pay about 10-20% of their actual salary and insurance pays the rest.

Of all things to argue about, this type of LTIR shenanigan doesn't have a meaningful impact on the salary cap. Putting players on LTIR mid-season until playoffs start, paying 80-90% of a player's salary in a signing bonus, etc. is a bigger mockery to the salary cap than this is.
 
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Foppa2118

Foppa2118

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PAZ said:
Weber's contract is insured, it doesn't actually cost them 7.8 mil, teams need to pay about 10-20% of their actual salary and insurance pays the rest.

Of all things to argue about, this type of LTIR shenanigan doesn't have a meaningful impact on the salary cap. Putting players on LTIR mid-season until playoffs start, paying 80-90% of a player's salary in a signing bonus, etc. is a bigger mockery to the salary cap than this is.
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I don't agree. We can argue about the semantics of whether this allows them to go over the cap or gets them under the cap.

But what it's actually doing is allowing them to go over the cap by $7.857M. Which is $2.857M more benefit than clearing Dadonov's cap hit would have given them.

I don't believe you should be able to trade for guys that are basically retired like Pronger or Weber and get the LTIR savings, because the LTIR loophole prevents the recapture penalty teams would have if they did retire.

If you're going to create a system with a hard cap that you're not supposed to go over, and you have rules in place when you sign players like Weber knowing that cap hit will stay with them, then you should enforce those things. Not let your vested interest teams slide if it's Vegas needing to go over the cap, or Arizona trying to spend less than the cap floor, and then give Colorado and Washington shit for the Grubauer-Orpik trade/buyout.
 
Tru

Tru

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At least in situations like Vegas, they'll have a penalty, in that they can't bank cap space for deadline acquisitions.

I agree with PAZ, allowing teams to LTIR players mid-season, then add those players for the playoffs is a much bigger advantage, imho.

Do the Lightning win the cup last year without Stamkos; arguably no.
 
dahrougem2

dahrougem2

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Dec 9, 2011
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PAZ said:
Weber's contract is insured, it doesn't actually cost them 7.8 mil, teams need to pay about 10-20% of their actual salary and insurance pays the rest.

Of all things to argue about, this type of LTIR shenanigan doesn't have a meaningful impact on the salary cap. Putting players on LTIR mid-season until playoffs start, paying 80-90% of a player's salary in a signing bonus, etc. is a bigger mockery to the salary cap than this is.
Click to expand...
Vegas is still able to accrue cap space if they manage their roster wisely based on Accruable Cap Space Limit.This helps them in that regard.
 
McMetal

McMetal

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Sep 29, 2015
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Foppa2118 said:
I'm not sure why my point is so hard to understand. Most every other team starts next season with a cap of $82.5M. Vegas essential now has a cap of $90.375M. I don't believe this should be allowed.

End of the day this is a positive benefit for them or they wouldn't have done it.
Click to expand...
I think you're misunderstanding how LTIR works. Unless they activate Weber for the playoffs (which obviously will not happen) they don't get any tangible benefit from LTIRing him. They essentially traded some hard cash in exchange for getting rid of Dadonov.
 
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Foppa2118

Foppa2118

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McMetal said:
I think you're misunderstanding how LTIR works. Unless they activate Weber for the playoffs (which obviously will not happen) they don't get any tangible benefit from LTIRing him. They essentially traded some hard cash in exchange for getting rid of Dadonov.
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I understand how it works. Like I said in my last post, I don't think you should be able to trade guys that have no plans of playing again, and avoid the recapture penalty by putting them on LTIR.

They had to give up a 2nd round pick and take on a similar contract with Kesler earlier in the season to move Dadonov without taking salary back. Now they just take on a bigger contract they can LTIR.

If you're going to have a salary cap that you canceled an entire season to get, then enforce it. If you're going to require 35+ players to carry their cap hit when they stop playing, because they got a lower cap hit by frontloading the deal, then enforce it.

It shouldn't be so easy for Vegas and other teams to make these moves. It makes a mockery of the entire purpose of the cap.
 
McMetal

McMetal

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Foppa2118 said:
I understand how it works. Like I said in my last post, I don't think you should be able to trade guys that have no plans of playing again, and avoid the recapture penalty by putting them on LTIR.

They had to give up a 2nd round pick and take on a similar contract with Kesler earlier in the season to move Dadonov without taking salary back. Now they just take on a bigger contract they can LTIR.

If you're going to have a salary cap that you canceled an entire season to get, then enforce it. If you're going to require 35+ players to carry their cap hit when they stop playing, because they got a lower cap hit by frontloading the deal, then enforce it.

It shouldn't be so easy for Vegas and other teams to make these moves. It makes a mockery of the entire purpose of the cap.
Click to expand...
I just don't understand what there is to get worked up about. Vegas's "extra" cap hit will be entirely eaten up by Weber's contract, it balances out to zero. I can understand the annoyance with trading the contracts of players that are essentially retired, but there's really nothing to be upset about with regards to Vegas getting a competitive advantage out of LTIR, this isn't anything like the shenanigans they pulled this season.
 
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Foppa2118

Foppa2118

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McMetal said:
I just don't understand what there is to get worked up about. Vegas's "extra" cap hit will be entirely eaten up by Weber's contract, it balances out to zero. I can understand the annoyance with trading the contracts of players that are essentially retired, but there's really nothing to be upset about with regards to Vegas getting a competitive advantage out of LTIR, this isn't anything like the shenanigans they pulled this season.
Click to expand...

I feel like I've explained my thought process in detail. We just don't see it the same.

If they weren't able to LTIR a defecto retired player, they would have had to give up more assets to move Dadonov. My annoyance with this is the cumulative impact of all these loopholes. I agree the Stone situation was worse.
 
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the_fan

the_fan

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Vezina was always gonna go to Shesterkin. Curious about Norris and Hart. I'd say Josi and Matthews
 
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