WJC: 2020 Team USA Roster Talk

[LGBlues]

It looked to me like they needed speed more than size - biggest surprise was that they could did not win any race to the puck - embarrassingly slow.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

You are just peddling a thoughtless narrative you favored before the tournament that you'll gladly carry through the tournament. Your take on Bobby Brink being a grinder is one of the most ironically funny things I've read during the duration of this tournament.

Drury and Beecher have never been grinders. To call them grinders is a complete misunderstanding of what the term means.

It cannot be said with enough frequency. A skill player who is playing poorly is not a grinder. He is a poor skill player. The US roster has no grinders. Drury has, at no point, been a grinder in his entire career, whether in the USHL, or in college. If you wanted to pick a grinder, you would pick someone else who actually has the skillset suited for grinding. Drury is a poor skill player. Beecher is also not a grinder. Despite being a big player, if you actually watched the game you would have seen that his choice method of creating offense was trying to go wide with speed and go behind the net, mixed with other things like ill-advised passes. Despite one dirty hit, he was not all over the ice trying to grind out possession and enable his linemates or pressuring the net. Players who play a skill game and play it poorly are not grinders. The bolded is the precise point I am making. When a skill player fails in his capacity as a skill player, he does not become a grinder. If Matt Martin decided suddenly to stop hitting players, he would not become a skill player. Playing poorly doesn't make you a different style of player, it just makes you a bad player at implementing the style you want.

This is mostly true but I will say "grinders" usually show themselves as the competition level ramps up. Most grinders in the NHL were skilled players in development but as they climb farther and farther up the ladder developmentally that skill doesn't translate anymore....and they become a bottom 6 forward or bottom pairing defensemen.

 

[I Hate Philadelphia]

Cole Caulfield is one of the worst players I've seen play in the WJC in a long time, just absolutely useless. I guess he can go back to beating up on crappy NCAA kids now but I don't see this guy ever becoming more than a marginal AHLer.

 

[kabidjan18]

Please point out to me where I said that. I'll wait.

Good call actually. You stepped in for someone else and I didn't catch the shift in respondent. Pat on the head for ya.

Fine, how about I just call them scrubs relative to the top-end talent on the team? It conveys the same point.

I think they convey different points but sure, this terminology works.

This is mostly true but I will say "grinders" usually show themselves as the competition level ramps up. Most grinders in the NHL were skilled players in development but as they climb farther and farther up the ladder developmentally that skill doesn't translate anymore....and they become a bottom 6 forward or bottom pairing defensemen.

That's fair. But I think if the focus had been on bringing grinders, it would have been better to leave Drury home in favor of someone more suited for the role. Even as a skill player there was maybe an argument to leave him at home...hindsight is 2020.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Cole Caulfield is one of the worst players I've seen play in the WJC in a long time, just absolutely useless. I guess he can go back to beating up on crappy NCAA kids now but I don't see this guy ever becoming more than a marginal AHLer.

Wow! Great call after watching a short tournament. Your talents are wasted posting on HF.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

Good call actually. You stepped in for someone else and I didn't catch the shift in respondent. Pat on the head for ya.


I think they convey different points but sure, this terminology works.


That's fair. But I think if the focus had been on bringing grinders, it would have been better to leave Drury home in favor of someone more suited for the role. Even as a skill player there was maybe an argument to leave him at home...hindsight is 2020.

I'd also point out that I didn't use the term "grinders" in the first place in reference to Drury and Beecher (i.e., the two players whose usage on what should have been offensive lines I take the most issue with in the tournament) in the game thread. I do concede to using it elsewhere, but I also used "scrubs," so at least I'm consistent! I'd like some candy.

 

[schnapshot]

Delete

 

[kabidjan18]

I'd also point out that I didn't use the term "grinders" in the first place in reference to Drury and Beecher (i.e., the two players whose usage on what should have been offensive lines I take the most issue with in the tournament) in this thread. I'd also like some candy.

Oh wow, if this was intentional then this was clever haha.

So he called them grinders, and if you read my statement as setting the term "grinders" as like a variable name for non-existent entities...

Wow, well played, definitely candy for you.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

Oh wow, if this was intentional then this was clever haha.

So he called them grinders, and if you read my statement as setting the term "grinders" as like a variable name for non-existent entities...

Wow, well played, definitely candy for you.

 

[SI90]

Pinto was surprisingly good but he should have been the 3C.

Zegras should have been 1C and Turcotte 2C

Kaliyev-Zegras-Wahlstrom
Robertson-Turcotte-Caufield

then you use Some combo of Beecher Pivonka Hall Ford as defensive grinding and shutdown lines.

the defense was thin and did all
They could do. Jones and Emberson stood out to me and were pleasant surprises.

 

[I Hate Philadelphia]

Wow! Great call after watching a short tournament. Your talents are wasted posting on HF.

Short tournament because we put our offensive hopes into a talentless midget who scored a grand total of ONE goal.

 

[schnapshot]

Short tournament because we put our offensive hopes into a talentless midget who scored a grand total of ONE goal.

Since when does a hockey tournament revolve on one particular player? Give your head a shake.

Coaching is what killed this team.

 

[newfy]

Short tournament because we put our offensive hopes into a talentless midget who scored a grand total of ONE goal.

Your take is definitely a little on the extreme side but him having such a bad tournament is just as to blame as others in here blaming 'grinders' playing too much. If Caufield were playing more minutes the team would've been worse off the way he was going. Same with Turcotte. People complain about them not playing enough but when they did get an opportunity what did they do with it?

Zegras didnt play a lot but was effective, he could've played more but its also not like he was going to magically double his production if he played more either.

 

[TheDoldrums]

imo the top 3 US players should have been

Zegras
Emberson
Jones

Honestly I was disappointed with Knight and surprised he was awarded, outside of the Canada game I don't think he had that much to deal with overall

 

[canuck2010]

Cole Caulfield is one of the worst players I've seen play in the WJC in a long time, just absolutely useless. I guess he can go back to beating up on crappy NCAA kids now but I don't see this guy ever becoming more than a marginal AHLer.

ouch

 

[LGBlues]

Caulfield gave an interview before he started with Wisconsin (paraphrasing poorly) where he said he did not care a bit about education and his only thought was hockey. He did not need to say that out loud - not cool to people who still think those scholarships should have something to do with college. And after this performance, he might want to rethink that lol.

 

[Sojourn]

Your take is definitely a little on the extreme side but him having such a bad tournament is just as to blame as others in here blaming 'grinders' playing too much. If Caufield were playing more minutes the team would've been worse off the way he was going. Same with Turcotte. People complain about them not playing enough but when they did get an opportunity what did they do with it?

Zegras didnt play a lot but was effective, he could've played more but its also not like he was going to magically double his production if he played more either.

I don’t think the point about Zegras playing more is really just about his production. It’s about how he was pushing the play and creating. Almost every time he was on the ice, good things were happening for the US. The US needed more of that.

On top of that, he probably would have been a good asset to use to help jumpstart some other talents on the team. That might be the single biggest reason he needed to be on the ice more. The way Zegras was playing, you pretty much just needed your stick on the ice and enough room to receive a pass, and he could have gotten it to you. What better way to get some of your best struggling talents going? Have someone on the ice who can get them the puck where they can do something with it.

 

[Pez68]

Caufield strikes me as a very selfish, one-dimensional player. Seems like a player that has always been able to just do things by himself. Maybe that changes, but if it doesn't, he doesnt have much of an NHL future.

I thought he was abysmal in this tournament, and had no idea how to play once the other team started doubling him. Just kept trying to dance through the entire team.

 

[Bgav]

Cole Caulfield is one of the worst players I've seen play in the WJC in a long time, just absolutely useless. I guess he can go back to beating up on crappy NCAA kids now but I don't see this guy ever becoming more than a marginal AHLer.

Loll all this over 5 games

 

[covfefe]

Caulfield gave an interview before he started with Wisconsin (paraphrasing poorly) where he said he did not care a bit about education and his only thought was hockey. He did not need to say that out loud - not cool to people who still think those scholarships should have something to do with college. And after this performance, he might want to rethink that lol.

 

[Sojourn]

Gross.

 

[Breakers]

The U18 roster had insane hype around it.

People were talking about these kids entering their respective NCAA programs and breaking conference records with how stacked the team was. Teaches people to STOP judging the NCAA vs U18 exhibitions like they mean anything.

 

[ponder]

Tourney Grades:
A: Zegras: What he did with 13min ATOI was remarkable. Emerged as a star playmaker.
Pinto: Consistent two way presence down the middle. Very impressive.
Jones: Kept things buzzing on the back end, loved his style of play.

A-: Emberson: Was a rock defensively, had some quality games.
Robertson: Generated big plays on his own when the team needed a push.

B+: Kaliyev: Great finisher, played hard for the most part
B:

B-: Samuelsson: Showed he's a solid stay at home guy and nothing more.
Harris: Had some messy breakouts but made up for it with good skating/2 way play.

C+: Knight: Ok at best. Solid rebound control but wish a goalie of his caliber made a few more saves
Miller: So inconsistent, I wish we saw more of what he was able to do 3 on 3 in OT vs. CZE.
Brink: Needed to be out there more but didn't play aware enough
Stastney: Very effective in his own end but undisciplined and meh offensively.

C: Hall: Played well against FIN but seemed replaceable early in the tournament.
Beecher: Played physically and created opportunities but just couldn't finish.

C-: Wahlstrom: Yes he had 5 points - but at the cost of selfish, undisciplined play. Honestly thought they would've been better off without him.
Caufield: Just didn't have it this tournament. I don't think he was bad this tournament, but you needed more from him.
Ford: Didn't fit well against European guys.

D: Turcotte: :ghostemoji:
Drury: 4th liner getting big minutes, didn't see it with him.

Not Rated: York, Wolf, Pivonka (too little playing time)

I don't think Sandelin was the right guy for the job here. They needed someone who could produce a twitchy lineup and that's not his style.

Agreed with most of these grades, and agreed Sandelin didn’t seem to be the right coach for this team. This was a team loaded with offensive talent, needed a coach who’d employ a puck possession, offence first style.

I also really didn’t like some of the line combos. Robertson/Pinto/Wahlstrom was an especially weird one - no real playmaker on that line, just 3 goal scorers, including one with serious tunnel vision (Wahlstrom). They all scored well, but a lot of the points they did put up were on the PP, they looked disjointed at ES. The Beecher/Drury/Caufield line was together a lot too, and also never looked good at even strength. Part of this was team selection too, lots of snipers selected, but not enough guys to set them up, and the best playmakers (like Zegras) got fairly limited minutes.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I thought Kaliyev was good for the US.

a Russian can’t do any different

He's an Uzbek.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

That U18 roster is so overrated.

What's overrated about it? If you claim the roster is overrated, it means some of the players on the team were overrated.

What's funny is that I'd say the most overrated player from that roster was the one player not released, Hughes. I think a lot of players from that team, Zegras for instance, were underrated because the other players were extremely good and there were so many big talents on that team.