2020 Offseason Thread Part IV

[CanadianFlyer88]

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[kudymen]

First!!

I feel so mature

 

[Striiker]

Mods, if you delete @kudymen's post and make mine first I won't post for 24 hours.

 

[kudymen]

The content is already superior to the previous thread

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

Mods, if you delete @kudymen's post and make mine first I won't post for 24 hours.

Make it months and we've got a deal.

 

[deadhead]

More data points on development of "undersized" forwards:

Point didn't start until he was 20: 68g, 14:20, 13-15 28 ES,
Kucherov also started at 20, 52g, 11:55, 6-8 14 ES

Each player broke out at 21.

Now I'm not comparing Frost to them in terms of talent, Point for example has an exceptional feel for maneuvering through traffic you don't see in most "undersized" players as well as an exceptional shot (career Sh 17.3%) and Kucherov has great ice vision.

Rather, just showing how fast a player can go from "OK" to star at that age.
I expect Frost to break out at some point, same with Farabee, it may be this year, it may be next year.
And while they may not be as good as Panarin, Point or Kucherov, I won't be surprised if they're consistent 40-50 point ES scorers who aren't defensive liabilities.

 

[Tripod]

More data points on development of "undersized" forwards:

Point didn't start until he was 20: 68g, 14:20, 13-15 28 ES,
Kucherov also started at 20, 52g, 11:55, 6-8 14 ES

Each player broke out at 21.

Now I'm not comparing Frost to them in terms of talent, Point for example has an exceptional feel for maneuvering through traffic you don't see in most "undersized" players as well as an exceptional shot (career Sh 17.3%) and Kucherov has great ice vision.

Rather, just showing how fast a player can go from "OK" to star at that age.
I expect Frost to break out at some point, same with Farabee, it may be this year, it may be next year.
And while they may not be as good as Panarin, Point or Kucherov, I won't be surprised if they're consistent 40-50 point ES scorers who aren't defensive liabilities.

Odd that every example you have to use, were not 1st round picks.

 

[deadhead]

Odd that every example you have to use, were not 1st round picks.

The guys who arrive early tend to be top 10 picks - which is why they're top 10 picks.
Not just talent, but the expectation that they'll be instant successes.
So they're skewed toward players who mature early, physically and skill wise.

 

[Tripod]

The guys who arrive early tend to be top 10 picks - which is why they're top 10 picks.
Not just talent, but the expectation that they'll be instant successes.
So they're skewed toward players who mature early, physically and skill wise.

Once again...you go off on a tangent that has nothing to do with what was said.

You compared Frost to people who were NOT 1st rounders. I pointed it out, and you start talking about top 10 picks which had NOTHING to do with what was said.

Frost arriving in his draft+3 season is not EARLY. It should have been right on time.

Robert Thomas was 1 year ahead in development, now he is 2.
Suzuki was on the same development year as Frost thru the OHL, with Frost being better, now he is a year behind.

Frost 100% should have been the #3C this past year and let him learn from mistakes to be ready/better for the playoffs. But we squandered that opportunity.

But it would be ASININE to do the exact same thing this coming year.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Data points are nice, but I prefer data poops, which some in the advanced stats community call "noise."

 

[Chinatown88]

 

[deadhead]

Once again...you go off on a tangent that has nothing to do with what was said.

You compared Frost to people who were NOT 1st rounders. I pointed it out, and you start talking about top 10 picks which had NOTHING to do with what was said.

Frost arriving in his draft+3 season is not EARLY. It should have been right on time.

Robert Thomas was 1 year ahead in development, now he is 2.
Suzuki was on the same development year as Frost thru the OHL, with Frost being better, now he is a year behind.

Frost 100% should have been the #3C this past year and let him learn from mistakes to be ready/better for the playoffs. But we squandered that opportunity.

But it would be ASININE to do the exact same thing this coming year.

Thomas and Suzuki are more physically mature than Frost, Thomas was 6'1 190 at 19, Suzuki 5'11 200 at 20.
Patrick and Provorov were physically mature at 19, TK probably should have stayed in the CHL for another year.
Point, Kucherov and Pararin are undersized like Frost, which is why I referred to their development path.

 

[Adtar02]

Thomas and Suzuki are more physically mature than Frost, Thomas was 6'1 190 at 19, Suzuki 5'11 200 at 20.
Patrick and Provorov were physically mature at 19, TK probably should have stayed in the CHL for another year.
Point, Kucherov and Pararin are undersized like Frost, which is why I referred to their development path.

Again not what he was talking about

 

[Tripod]

Again not what he was talking about

it's so funny isn't it.

Odd that he didn't mention.....Yamamoto 5'8 158

 

[Magua]

All this discussion about Thomas, Yamamoto, Frost......

 

[deadhead]

it's so funny isn't it.

Odd that he didn't mention.....Yamamoto 5'8 158

Why? He played 17 games at age 20, with 1 ES point.
This year, at 21, started the year in the AHL, played 23 games there before being recalled.
He was drafted five spots before Frost.

 

[Adtar02]

Why? He played 17 games at age 20, with 1 ES point.
This year, at 21, started the year in the AHL, played 23 games there before being recalled.
He was drafted five spots before Frost.

Seems like it would be a good comparison

 

[Striiker]

Based on his post-draft play, Frost probably goes closer to 10 than 27 in a re-draft.

 

[deadhead]

Based on his post-draft play, Frost probably goes closer to 10 than 27 in a re-draft.

What play? He had two good CHL campaigns.
He's not getting drafted ahead of anyone in the top 9.
#10 Tippett was lackluster in the CHL, but AHL last year, 46g 19-21 40
#11 Vilardi has had some injuries, but had a solid AHL season 32g 9-16 23, before being called up
He would not have gone ahead of #12 Necas or #13 Suzuki.
Frost might have beat out #14-18.
He would not have been drafted ahead of Thomas at #19 or Chytil at #20
#22 Yamamoto might be a wash.

So at best Frost might move up to #20 or so.

 

[Tripod]

Why? He played 17 games at age 20, with 1 ES point.
This year, at 21, started the year in the AHL, played 23 games there before being recalled.
He was drafted five spots before Frost.

Wait...so now it's about age...and not size when it's about Yam.

But about size when it's about Suzuki.

You flip flop more than a fish outta water.

 

[deadhead]

Wait...so now it's about age...and not size when it's about Yam.

But about size when it's about Suzuki.

You flip flop more than a fish outta water.

What are you talking about?
My point was that Yamamoto didn't start until he was 21, which makes him a poor excuse for starting Frost at 20.
I'm simply showing that it's not usual for less physically developed but talented forwards not to start until they're 21 or 22.

The more physically developed guys like Thomas play earlier because they don't have to start in an offensive role, they can play on the energy line and work their way up - Couts started at 19 for that reason.

 

[TheKingPin]

@flyersnorth

I’m happy they speak highly of him. But they just went pretty far in the playoffs with injuries and Frost didn’t even get a warmup game in. Center was always going to be out thinnest position and that came through with the Couts injury. Instead they went with Grant and Thompson.

 

[Rebels57]

@flyersnorth

I’m happy they speak highly of him. But they just went pretty far in the playoffs with injuries and Frost didn’t even get a warmup game in. Center was always going to be out thinnest position and that came through with the Couts injury. Instead they went with Grant and Thompson.

That has nothing to do with how they view Frost. They didnt use him because they didnt think he was up to speed due to a 4 month layoff thanks to a pandemic.

AVs biggest mistake was not dressing him for a game in the Round Robin. Then that mistake snowballed.

It was a poor decision, but does not mean they dont value Frosts potential.

 

[renberg]

@flyersnorth

I’m happy they speak highly of him. But they just went pretty far in the playoffs with injuries and Frost didn’t even get a warmup game in. Center was always going to be out thinnest position and that came through with the Couts injury. Instead they went with Grant and Thompson.

It may be that his lack of a physical presence was the reason why he didn't get on the ice against Montreal or the Isles. Coming out of the RR, it looked as though the Flyers lineup was in good shape. Even though they struggled against Montreal using Grant and Thompson, it didn't hurt the club that much. Against the Isles, with the way that they were playing the body, I could see Frost having real difficulty.

 

[flyersnorth]

@flyersnorth

I’m happy they speak highly of him. But they just went pretty far in the playoffs with injuries and Frost didn’t even get a warmup game in. Center was always going to be out thinnest position and that came through with the Couts injury. Instead they went with Grant and Thompson.

Yeah I really thought he'd at least get a RR game, like most of the players that were along for the ride.

Still, I don't see that as being analogous to the organization not liking Frost. It just wasn't his time yet, I guess.