HF Habs: 2020 Montreal Canadiens Off-Season Thread part 3

[montreal]

The other problem is they need to have the cup end before July 23 due to tv rights in the US which have to cover the summer olympics unless there's a way around that.

 

[shamrun]

I am no tax expert but i saw this tweet by allen walsh about taxes.



I always thought it was a big difference. Is what he is saying true?

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

I am no tax expert but i saw this tweet by allen walsh about taxes.



I always thought it was a big difference. Is what he is saying true?

Maybe agents don't know that ?

I also read that if you declare your main living area somewhere in the states you pay that tax instead of whatever province you're in.

I think there was a post/tweet about it with Nashville that Duchene would pay the same in either Montreal, or Nashville

 

[Treb]

View attachment 368178

So without extending Domi, signing a depth forward at 1m, signing Evans at 1m, signing another depth forward (Hudon) to 1m, signing Mete to 1m.. we have 7.2m in space.

So you have 6 million for a top6 forward and 1 million each for 4th line forward and Juulsen.

Tatar - Suzuki - Gallagher
Drouin - KK - Forward
Lehkonen - Danault - Armia
Byron - Evans - Forward
Weal

Chiarot - Weber
Edmundson - Petry
Kulak - Romanov
Mete - Juulsen

Price
Allen

 

[NotProkofievian]

I am no tax expert but i saw this tweet by allen walsh about taxes.



I always thought it was a big difference. Is what he is saying true?

Yes, it's true. However, I think they have to defer their income to take advantage of it. So there's a caveat.

 

[psychonaut]

I am no tax expert but i saw this tweet by allen walsh about taxes.



I always thought it was a big difference. Is what he is saying true?

I think that work's if you're from the US working in Canada. But I never bought this tax reason, weather and media (think it's more media)

 

[BLONG7]

So you have 6 million for a top6 forward and 1 million each for 4th line forward and Juulsen.

Tatar - Suzuki - Gallagher
Drouin - KK - Forward
Lehkonen - Danault - Armia
Byron - Evans - Forward
Weal

Chiarot - Weber
Edmundson - Petry
Kulak - Romanov
Mete - Juulsen

Price
Allen

Hoffman?? Could be a good add to the top 6............

 

[Treb]

Hoffman?? Could be a good add to the top 6............

Hoffman, Toffoli, Kessel, Dadonov, Silfverberg and Rakell are all options I would consider depending on the price.

Maroon or Pitlick for the 4th line. If not them, some big guy like Hathaway.

 

[Sam of Montreal]

Hoffman, Toffoli, Kessel, Dadonov, Silfverberg and Rakell are all options I would consider depending on the price.

Maroon or Pitlick for the 4th line. If not them, some big guy like Hathaway.

If Silverberg was available at a decent price, that would be my first choice for a winger with some skill and jam.

Otherwise, Dadonov seems like a nice pick-up (but I don't know how he plays, is he physical at all?)

Pitlick on the 4th line would definitely be a nice upgrade, but I think he will be a bit of an expensive 4th line option.

 

[Scriptor]

Yes, it's true. However, I think they have to defer their income to take advantage of it. So there's a caveat.

I know there was a revenue deferral needed when it applied to Russian players but, since they didn't pay taxes back home later on in life, it was a distinct advantage. I didn't know it also applied to US citizens who lived in the States nor if it would apply to russian players if they decided to stay in the States once they retired.

However, Duvernay-Tardif's agent took the time to explain how a bonus-laden contract, to take advantage of Canadian tax law loopholes, would have enabled Radulov to pay less taxes on his salary revenue in Montreal than in Dallas at the same salary amount. This didn't even take into account Radulov's ability to defer taxes to a time where, in Russia, he would not pay ANY taxes on his revenue.

The truth is that, for a Superstar player, a Canadian team will likely agree to any contract structure that can make the tax situation much closer to those found more naturally in some US states.

Fans (and maybe a good chunk of players) have been brainwashed into thinking that taxes is the real question that makes Montreal less attractive to UFAs.

The reality lies more in whether we are competitive, the nature of media intrusion, fan reactions to the team (both a positive factor and a negative factor, depending on the player) and cultural differences.

 

[salbutera]

I know there was a revenue deferral needed when it applied to Russian players but, since they didn't pay taxes back home later on in life, it was a distinct advantage. I didn't know it also applied to US citizens who lived in the States nor if it would apply to russian players if they decided to stay in the States once they retired.

However, Duvernay-Tardif's agent took the time to explain how a bonus-laden contract, to take advantage of Canadian tax law loopholes, would have enabled Radulov to pay less taxes on his salary revenue in Montreal than in Dallas at the same salary amount. This didn't even take into account Radulov's ability to defer taxes to a time where, in Russia, he would not pay ANY taxes on his revenue.

The truth is that, for a Superstar player, a Canadian team will likely agree to any contract structure that can make the tax situation much closer to those found more naturally in some US states.

Fans (and maybe a good chunk of players) have been brainwashed into thinking that taxes is the real question that makes Montreal less attractive to UFAs.

The reality lies more in whether we are competitive, the nature of media intrusion, fan reactions to the team (both a positive factor and a negative factor, depending on the player) and cultural differences.

Mtl will always be less attractive to UFAs - taxation, fans & media obsession and different culture.

BTW - Walsh failed to mention on the Melnick skit...the Habs instituted the RCA program nearly 45-years ago for the 70’s dynasty team - to defer vast portions of their earnings to post retirement income. That only works in this day and age if the player is willing to defer the $ to post playing days, many are not and want to be paid upfront.

RCA is the only methodology around high taxation for Canadian players, non taxing of bonuses only applies to US players based on IRS system (specifically no state tax locales), hence the Auston Mathews rule.

 

[WG]

Lol I'm laughing at your posts, not frothing at the mouth whatsoever. You are 100% contracting based on what you said in the last thread. No question about it.

It's 100% guaranteed a dman gets traded if Pie signs here, it literally makes no sense otherwise. You get cap space right there for the 2 forward positions. Alzner gets sent down which saves money for another forward at the start of the season.

Sending Alzner to Laval does not save any money.

Option A, keep Alzner on the NHL roster as the 7/8D. Cap hit 4.6M.
Option B, send Alzner down, you get about 1M in relief but you then need a guy making about 1M to fill the roster spot (Juulsen, a Folin type, whatever). The combined cap hit to send Alzner down and then replace him is going to be about the same.

 

[WG]

So you have 6 million for a top6 forward and 1 million each for 4th line forward and Juulsen.

Tatar - Suzuki - Gallagher
Drouin - KK - Forward
Lehkonen - Danault - Armia
Byron - Evans - Forward
Weal

Chiarot - Weber
Edmundson - Petry
Kulak - Romanov
Mete - Juulsen

Price
Allen

Just do the exercise and slot Domi in at 2nd line wing at 5-ish M. This is the same roster that scored three goals in four playoff losses to Philly. And then ask if replacing Domi with Dadanov, Hoffman or some other 2nd tier UFA will make the team any better.

And yes, the overall org is better if they sign Hoffman, and Domi is traded for, say, a 1st and a prospect, but those new assets won't help the NHL team next year.

 

[BLONG7]

Just do the exercise and slot Domi in at 2nd line wing at 5-ish M. This is the same roster that scored three goals in four playoff losses to Philly. And then ask if replacing Domi with Dadanov, Hoffman or some other 2nd tier UFA will make the team any better.

And yes, the overall org is better if they sign Hoffman, and Domi is traded for, say, a 1st and a prospect, but those new assets won't help the NHL team next year.

Very true.........MB will be getting his ducks in a row soon, to ask for another 5 yr deal..............the scary part is, Mol$on will still be making those types of decisions.
Rinse and Repeat...
Hopefully the media will tear the two clowns apart soon.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I am no tax expert but i saw this tweet by allen walsh about taxes.



I always thought it was a big difference. Is what he is saying true?

Bookmarked for future encounters with myth propagaters and media apologists.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I think that work's if you're from the US working in Canada. But I never bought this tax reason, weather and media (think it's more media)

Pretty sure media types come in here (and other forums) trying to maintain and propagate the tax myth to keep blame away from themselves

 

[Treb]

Just do the exercise and slot Domi in at 2nd line wing at 5-ish M. This is the same roster that scored three goals in four playoff losses to Philly. And then ask if replacing Domi with Dadanov, Hoffman or some other 2nd tier UFA will make the team any better.

And yes, the overall org is better if they sign Hoffman, and Domi is traded for, say, a 1st and a prospect, but those new assets won't help the NHL team next year.

Domi is nowhere near the goalscorer Hoffman, Dadonov, Kessel and Rakell are and goalscoring was our problem. You can't just look at points, goals are the thing we need. Adding a playmaker or keeping Domi doesn't solve anything. Bringing in a goalscorer makes us better.

 

[Naslund]

People are overthinking what the Habs have to do to get better next year. I don't think trading Domi or Danault will bring back better players, it will simply set us back. In addition, every time a player is traded, he becomes less and less interested in the team and more geared toward his own benefit, especially established players. Laine will not give a discount to the Habs, and when he is under the microscope in Montreal, we probably will realize quickly that he is not worth the 10 millions we had to give him to keep him around.

You trade Danault and Domi only if they have the wrong expectations regarding their value to the team. One example of this is Drouin: a player should be paid what he provides, and Gallagher must vomit every time he sees the contract that was given to Drouin. That contract is the main reason why Drouin has regressed since his arrival in Montreal.

Suzuki is an amazing player, but so is Max Domi. Suzuki was a minus player this year, and was hitting a wall before Covid-19 hit. He had a nice stretch in the playoffs, but this is what it was, a stretch. Yes, he will be a very valuable at center for the Habs for the next 10 years, but it does not mean that he cannot move to the wing to accommodate the team for a year or two and still be a great player. With injuries anyway, he would likely be able to spend a significant amount of time at center.

Here's the plan. You give contracts to Domi and Danault around 5 millions for 4-5 years with limited movement protections (e.g. no-trade first two seasons, then 10-team restriction list), and you play Suzuki on the wing. We need a right-shooting winger anyway until Caufield is ready, and that will take two years at minimum. Then, the more important thing is to set up the lines to maximize the potential of the team. This is the main reason Domi had such a terrible season. He needs to play with high-energy players that match his style (like Andrew Shaw). Don't put Suzuki on his line. This is how I see it.

Tatar-Danault-Armia
Lekhonen-Domi-Gallagher
Drouin-Kotkaniemi-Suzuki
Byron-Poehling-Evans

Suzuki and Kotkaniemi together could work really well in my opinion. Both great passers/shooters. Gallagher and Lekhonen are by far the best wingers on the team for Domi, and Danault would mesh well with Armia, and Tatar providing the scoring option.

If you have to trade Max Domi, then I think Max Comtois and + could be a nice return. Comtois is the type of player that could mesh well with KK and Suzuki. My pick for the draft would be Mercer and Holloway, in that order.

 

[Deebs]

People are overthinking what the Habs have to do to get better next year. I don't think trading Domi or Danault will bring back better players, it will simply set us back. In addition, every time a player is traded, he becomes less and less interested in the team and more geared toward his own benefit, especially established players. Laine will not give a discount to the Habs, and when he is under the microscope in Montreal, we probably will realize quickly that he is not worth the 10 millions we had to give him to keep him around.

You trade Danault and Domi only if they have the wrong expectations regarding their value to the team. One example of this is Drouin: a player should be paid what he provides, and Gallagher must vomit every time he sees the contract that was given to Drouin. That contract is the main reason why Drouin has regressed since his arrival in Montreal.

Suzuki is an amazing player, but so is Max Domi. Suzuki was a minus player this year, and was hitting a wall before Covid-19 hit. He had a nice stretch in the playoffs, but this is what it was, a stretch. Yes, he will be a very valuable at center for the Habs for the next 10 years, but it does not mean that he cannot move to the wing to accommodate the team for a year or two and still be a great player. With injuries anyway, he would likely be able to spend a significant amount of time at center.

Here's the plan. You give contracts to Domi and Danault around 5 millions for 4-5 years with limited movement protections (e.g. no-trade first two seasons, then 10-team restriction list), and you play Suzuki on the wing. We need a right-shooting winger anyway until Caufield is ready, and that will take two years at minimum. Then, the more important thing is to set up the lines to maximize the potential of the team. This is the main reason Domi had such a terrible season. He needs to play with high-energy players that match his style (like Andrew Shaw). Don't put Suzuki on his line. This is how I see it.

Tatar-Danault-Armia
Lekhonen-Domi-Gallagher
Drouin-Kotkaniemi-Suzuki
Byron-Poehling-Evans

Suzuki and Kotkaniemi together could work really well in my opinion. Both great passers/shooters. Gallagher and Lekhonen are by far the best wingers on the team for Domi, and Danault would mesh well with Armia, and Tatar providing the scoring option.

If you have to trade Max Domi, then I think Max Comtois and + could be a nice return. Comtois is the type of player that could mesh well with KK and Suzuki. My pick for the draft would be Mercer and Holloway, in that order.

That's a terrible lineup but I appreciate the work you put into it.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Sending Alzner to Laval does not save any money.

Option A, keep Alzner on the NHL roster as the 7/8D. Cap hit 4.6M.
Option B, send Alzner down, you get about 1M in relief but you then need a guy making about 1M to fill the roster spot (Juulsen, a Folin type, whatever). The combined cap hit to send Alzner down and then replace him is going to be about the same.

If they don't trade any defensemen, then the D-Corps in Montreal will be Weber, Petry, Chiarot, Edmundson, Romanov, Kulak, and Mete.

If they keep Alzner and send him to Laval, the Habs will save $1.075M on the cap.

- Folin is as good as gone. They don't need to bring him back whether they keep Alzner or buy him out.
- Regarding Juulsen, MB said that because of his health issues, they can't pencil him in the NHL. He needs to play to show that he has recovered.
- There is also if they choose to keep Ouellet as he needs a new contract. And he may end up starting in Laval.

The defense in Laval at the moment would be: Brook, Fleury, Olofsson, Leskinen, Schueneman, Halbert, Bisson. You can add Juulsen if he clears waivers. And you can add Alzner if they keep him and send him down. Which in turn, would send the likes of Halbert and Bisson to the ECHL.

So if everyone is healthy to start next season, there will be 7 defensemen in the NHL and 9/10 defensemen in the AHL, with 2 of them in the ECHL.

 

[MrNasty]

Mtl will always be less attractive to UFAs - taxation, fans & media obsession and different culture.

BTW - Walsh failed to mention on the Melnick skit...the Habs instituted the RCA program nearly 45-years ago for the 70’s dynasty team - to defer vast portions of their earnings to post retirement income. That only works in this day and age if the player is willing to defer the $ to post playing days, many are not and want to be paid upfront.

RCA is the only methodology around high taxation for Canadian players, non taxing of bonuses only applies to US players based on IRS system (specifically no state tax locales), hence the Auston Mathews rule.

So Allan Walsh is ignoring the fact that bonuses are not taxed to the US players but they are to Canadian players...and players have to agree to move their money to retirement rather than taking it now...so yeah taxation really does matter.
He is misleading in his statement.

 

[waffledave]

My dumb musing of the day I'll throw out... I want to trade domi to minny for Suter and a 1st.

Reunite suter and weber.

 

[BLONG7]

So Allan Walsh is ignoring the fact that bonuses are not taxed to the US players but they are to Canadian players...and players have to agree to move their money to retirement rather than taking it now...so yeah taxation really does matter.
He is misleading in his statement.

Walsh is a donkey.....everything the guy says, is sideways at best...

 

[Miller Time]

People are overthinking what the Habs have to do to get better next year. I don't think trading Domi or Danault will bring back better players, it will simply set us back. In addition, every time a player is traded, he becomes less and less interested in the team and more geared toward his own benefit, especially established players. Laine will not give a discount to the Habs, and when he is under the microscope in Montreal, we probably will realize quickly that he is not worth the 10 millions we had to give him to keep him around.

You trade Danault and Domi only if they have the wrong expectations regarding their value to the team. One example of this is Drouin: a player should be paid what he provides, and Gallagher must vomit every time he sees the contract that was given to Drouin. That contract is the main reason why Drouin has regressed since his arrival in Montreal.

Suzuki is an amazing player, but so is Max Domi. Suzuki was a minus player this year, and was hitting a wall before Covid-19 hit. He had a nice stretch in the playoffs, but this is what it was, a stretch. Yes, he will be a very valuable at center for the Habs for the next 10 years, but it does not mean that he cannot move to the wing to accommodate the team for a year or two and still be a great player. With injuries anyway, he would likely be able to spend a significant amount of time at center.

Here's the plan. You give contracts to Domi and Danault around 5 millions for 4-5 years with limited movement protections (e.g. no-trade first two seasons, then 10-team restriction list), and you play Suzuki on the wing. We need a right-shooting winger anyway until Caufield is ready, and that will take two years at minimum. Then, the more important thing is to set up the lines to maximize the potential of the team. This is the main reason Domi had such a terrible season. He needs to play with high-energy players that match his style (like Andrew Shaw). Don't put Suzuki on his line. This is how I see it.

Tatar-Danault-Armia
Lekhonen-Domi-Gallagher
Drouin-Kotkaniemi-Suzuki
Byron-Poehling-Evans

Suzuki and Kotkaniemi together could work really well in my opinion. Both great passers/shooters. Gallagher and Lekhonen are by far the best wingers on the team for Domi, and Danault would mesh well with Armia, and Tatar providing the scoring option.

If you have to trade Max Domi, then I think Max Comtois and + could be a nice return. Comtois is the type of player that could mesh well with KK and Suzuki. My pick for the draft would be Mercer and Holloway, in that order.

playing Suzuki on the wing is a terrible idea, i would hope even the habs wouldn't be foolish enough to make that mistake at this point.

 

[Miller Time]

If they don't trade any defensemen, then the D-Corps in Montreal will be Weber, Petry, Chiarot, Edmundson, Romanov, Kulak, and Mete.

If they keep Alzner and send him to Laval, the Habs will save $1.075M on the cap.

- Folin is as good as gone. They don't need to bring him back whether they keep Alzner or buy him out.
- Regarding Juulsen, MB said that because of his health issues, they can't pencil him in the NHL. He needs to play to show that he has recovered.
- There is also if they choose to keep Ouellet as he needs a new contract. And he may end up starting in Laval.

The defense in Laval at the moment would be: Brook, Fleury, Olofsson, Leskinen, Schueneman, Halbert, Bisson. You can add Juulsen if he clears waivers. And you can add Alzner if they keep him and send him down. Which in turn, would send the likes of Halbert and Bisson to the ECHL.

So if everyone is healthy to start next season, there will be 7 defensemen in the NHL and 9/10 defensemen in the AHL, with 2 of them in the ECHL.

i wouldn't take it as a given that Juulsen doesn't beat out 1 of Kulak, romanov or mete to start the season... i'd add Edmundson to the list, but given the new contract, he'll start the season in the top-6 regardless of whether or not the younger guys legitimately out play him.