News Article: 2020 before we're good? Agree?

[couture23]

LOL at

Quote of:

Marcus Foligno’s value as an NHLer remains unclear, and you could say the same thing about Cody Hodgson, Zemgus Girgensons and Tyler Myers.


And they called him Risto Ristolainen

I kinda like Risto Ristolainen, has a nice zing to it.

 

[sabrebuild]

Our core-pieces are young, but many of them are already relatively highly developed (Girgensons, Ristolainen and Zadorov. Yes, Zadorov plays pretty mature game right now being 19 years old). A lot will depend on the development of Grigorenko. I think his development is the most crucial thing when thinking the timeline for this rebuild (Reinhart won't develop quickly enough to be a difference maker in two next years, imo).

So I think it necessarily won't take half a decade for this team to be "good". But in addition to the development of these youngsters a lot will depend on how Murray is able to operate in FA and trade markets. If he can find the right players for the right price, it might accelerate things pretty nicely.

I would actually disagree about Reinhart. I think his physical limits were not that bad. By next year I think he will be ready for the league. Not dominant but a positive player.

 

[NEcoli]

Damien Cox is atrocious, worse than Harrington and Gleason even. I can't imagine anyone takes him seriously.

 

[Cirris]

As long as the Sabres are in last place and people think they're purposely tanking for Mceichel, you will continue to see the "woeful" Sabres articles pop up.

Most will be sensationalist drivel. Not worth the time to read. So don't worry about them.

If you believe in Tim Murray and his plan, let it come to fruition and ignore the crap articles.

 

[brian_griffin]

I agree in the sense that it's going to be longer than people seem to think.

It also truly depends on how one defines being "taken seriously". Even amateurs - posters here - define their terms. Cox does not.

Didn't read the article.

But to the question posed the the thread title...


It all depends on how Murray handles the boatload of prospects he has at his disposal.

If he plugs them into the lineup and forms a "futures roster" - much like ones you see on HF all the time - the team will falter and be stuck in a never-ending rebuild, much like Edmonton.

If he dangles the high-end depth that he has in the pipeline to add legitimate NHLers, they'll be better faster (obviously).

Murray should be doing everything in his power to add the O'Reillys of the league this offseason. He has the ammo to get it done and he has the depth to lessen the blow of losing prospects like Baptiste, Compher, Fasching, even Zadorov and Grigorenko -- everyone.

I think he'll do what it takes. But it won't be in one offseason. McDavid/Eichel won't be enough to turn this team around.

Though I quite like the idea of O'Reilly-McDavid-xxx and Girgensons-Reinhart-xxx in the future.

Off-topic - but it just clicked with me. Is Ryan O'Reilly any relation to the former Bruin Terry O'Reilly?

What a garbage article. From the references to the goalies not having long term deals to not knowing the value of girgs and Myers. Jeez Cox.

The best part is what is good? To Cox it seems the Islanders and them making a playoff run now. While he ignores they made the playoffs two years ago and missed last year in part to a season ending injury to Tavares, lets say a playoff contending team is his standard. Forget that their gm was garth snow and ours is tim murray. Forget that their owner is a buffoon in his 25 years of owning the team and pegula has shown nothing but a willingness to put money into the team. The Sabres prospect pool is so deep its a joke to reference what Isles had waiting for Tavares. When fid Jerry Sullivan start working in Toronto.

On a non-rant related note I think the team will come up short but compete for the last playoff spot next season. I would guess they are a real threat in the playoffs in year three of McEichel.

I do not. Not until true center depth is in place, even if they are young centers. No Ennis, no Hodgson.

There's really little reason for them not be able to compete for the last playoff spot next year. Bring in at least one veteran top six dman and a veteran center that can carry play and you will see improvement out of some of the underachieving guys. Trade, fa or offersheet Murray has the ammunition to bring in at least two or three actually good vets unlike last year. Centers and transition dmen will ho a long way for this team. They won't be great, but if Murray chooses to, he could have them closer to the playoffs than to last place by next year.

Agree. But not clear it is necessary for team to compete for playoff spot next season. The goal is further out in time.

That's some pretty uninformed stuff.

This is as silly as posting an article that says we're going to be surefire cup contenders by 2020. Six years is a long time. Anything can happen.

Positively or Negatively (career ending injuries, etc.), so agreed.

As long as the Sabres are in last place and people think they're purposely tanking for Mceichel, you will continue to see the "woeful" Sabres articles pop up.

Most will be sensationalist drivel. Not worth the time to read. So don't worry about them.

If you believe in Tim Murray and his plan, let it come to fruition and ignore the crap articles.

In the words of George H.W. Bush: "Stay the course, four more years."

 

[sabrebuild]

Brian, regarding the vet center and the playoffs v staying the course for the future. Those two things are not mutually exclusive. A player of O'Reillys caliber added to the team helps the standings and develop the young talent. If you bring in a guy like that neither Ennis or Hodgson is playing center next year.

 

[brian_griffin]

Brian, regarding the vet center and the playoffs v staying the course for the future. Those two things are not mutually exclusive. A player of O'Reillys caliber added to the team helps the standings and develop the young talent. If you bring in a guy like that neither Ennis or Hodgson is playing center next year.

I agree - would be great if it happened. Without such a specific move like O'Reilly, however, I think the probability is very low. Even Jason Spezza would, IMO, put the probability of a playoff push next season at <<50%.

 

[sabrebuild]

I agree - would be great if it happened. Without such a specific move like O'Reilly, however, I think the probability is very low. Even Jason Spezza would, IMO, put the probability of a playoff push next season at <<50%.

Sure. Let's hope Tim Murray knows what he's doing.

 

[EichHart]

We will be good after next season if we get Eichel/Mcdavid. Murray has the cap space, money, prospects to make things happen quickly in free agency/trades.

 

[30Yonge]

In his first draft, Dean Lombardi used the 11th pick on Bernier because he had no idea about Quick.
He added long term, complimentary pieces (Stoll/Greene) after his second season in charge.
He didn't make any high risk trades during their three years on the bottom. The first young piece he moved
was O'Sullivan in 2009 after nearly 200 games with LA. Schenn and Simmonds (3 full seasons in LA) are not dealt until his fifth season and two first round losses.

Murray's been on the job for less than a year and the Sabres are already overflowing with prospects.
It is going to take time just to sort out which are the guys you plan to move forward with. I do not see him trading quality prospects away before June 2016 at the earliest.

 

[Jim Bob]

We will be good after next season if we get Eichel/Mcdavid. Murray has the cap space, money, prospects to make things happen quickly in free agency/trades.

Here is the conclusion of the article:

So best-case scenario, we’re talking 2020 before it’s time to take the Sabres seriously again, and that’s if they get McDavid.

The first thing is the semantical debate of what "being good" and "time to take the Sabres seriously" means.

Does it mean that they make the playoffs?

Does it mean that they are viewed as legit Cup contenders?

Does it merely mean that they are in the playoff hunt at the trade deadline?

I could see the team drafting in the 5 to 10 range when they host the 2016 Draft.

I could envision them just missing the playoffs in 2017.

I could see them making the playoffs and getting bounced in the first round in 2018.

And I could see them being a contender in the Eastern Conference playoffs by 2020.

I could also see this team continue to flounder for a while as Murray tries to get the mix just right and the rebuild drags on for a few more years and they aren't legit contenders until 2022 or even later.

Cox is being slightly pessimistic, especially about the overall lack of quality prospects in the system, but I don't think he's that far off when it comes to the timeline for this team to be really good again.

 

[sabrebuild]

Some of the problem I see with the timeline that people are viewing the Sabres rebuild and measuring it to other rebuilds is that they are starting the count from when we get McEichel or Reinhart. The difference is that whether intentionally or due to Fortuna the Sabres had two excellent drafts before Reinhart as well as a few young key players already in place. The drafting of McEichel is the final piece of the fraft aspect of this process. Drafting will continue to be important but the top level talent will be drafted and matured in the next year. Year one of McEichel should be a big turnaround. Year two they make the playoffs and get smoked. I see huge comparisons to the pens out of the lockout except with way more depth.

 

[Jame]

Some of the problem I see with the timeline that people are viewing the Sabres rebuild and measuring it to other rebuilds is that they are starting the count from when we get McEichel or Reinhart. The difference is that whether intentionally or due to Fortuna the Sabres had two excellent drafts before Reinhart as well as a few young key players already in place. The drafting of McEichel is the final piece of the fraft aspect of this process. Drafting will continue to be important but the top level talent will be drafted and matured in the next year. Year one of McEichel should be a big turnaround. Year two they make the playoffs and get smoked. I see huge comparisons to the pens out of the lockout except with way more depth.

In the 2019-2020 season, Zemgus and Risto will be 25 yrs old, and all the other core pieces we know of will be younger (McDavid will be 22 years old)

We can assume Murray will add pieces, but the reality is that the core of the team we expect to contend, is not going to be ready in a couple years... and 2020 is a fair assessment given what we know in the present.

 

[haseoke39]

I'm a bit more optimistic, I say our cup window opens 2019 if all goes well.

I assume Cox meant to say we'd be in the basement until 2020, though, and that's just silly. I mean, not impossible, but a lot of guys would all have to bust.

 

[Jame]

earlier in this thread I asked about this...

The departure of Pat LaFontaine was weird, and some rumours suggest he left because after hiring Murray he changed his mind, but Pegula wouldn’t let him make another change.

am I the only one who never heard this before?

 

[TehDoak]

Oh god, that was awful to read.

Gotta wonder if that was bulletin board material for the Sabres on Saturday.

Ill informed, to say the least.

McDavid/Eichel certainly isn't a cureall for this team, but 2020 (FIVE full seasons after this one) is a bit pessimistic.

Whats the ironic thing here is the Sabres ownership has the will to do what the leafs SHOULD have done post lockout. Imagine if 2009, instead of going after Kessel, the leafs sold off assets. Never traded for Phanuef. Just went straight to the mats, bare. And started building. Imagine where they'd be now?

Now, are basically the post 2007 Sabres. Lots of secondary pieces, but very few core players. Their best forwards are wingers, center depth is non existent, and honestly, the character isn't really there. Might be a playoff team, but no real hope for contention.

Laugh now, Toronto media. We'll be laughing loudly (and often) sooner than you think.

 

[TehDoak]

earlier in this thread I asked about this...



am I the only one who never heard this before?

Sounds like conjecture to me.

My understanding is that lafontaine left when he realized that his role wasn't what he assumed it was.

 

[sabrebuild]

In the 2019-2020 season, Zemgus and Risto will be 25 yrs old, and all the other core pieces we know of will be younger (McDavid will be 22 years old)

We can assume Murray will add pieces, but the reality is that the core of the team we expect to contend, is not going to be ready in a couple years... and 2020 is a fair assessment given what we know in the present.

I guess this goes back to the point of what is taking the team seriously? From what we've seen of Murray I have to assume he will make serious additions in the next year to two.

Toews, Crosby, Doughty were all roughly 22 when they were in their first Cup Finals. If we are saying the Sabres will win the Cup or make the Finals in 2019-2020, sounfs good but I don't think that's what Cox meant.

Never heard the report about Lafontaine. Tho looking at Cox and his effort to research Risto Ristolainen I wouldn't be surprised if this is an unsubstantiated rumor on his part.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Sounds like conjecture to me.

My understanding is that lafontaine left when he realized that his role wasn't what he assumed it was.

Yeah, the extra week or two he took in hiring a GM was consistent with the "he was mining dudes for info on how to GM a team" narrative, and the Miller trade just makes way more sense as a catalyst moment.

Of course, Lala could've had second thoughts after Murray came in gruff and guns blazing (on the Miller trade) in which case everyone's right and Cox is just spinning the story to make the Buffalo FO sound incompetent to fit his narrative.