Speculation: 2020-21 Management/Coach/Owner Discussion

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Kalv

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The only two of the six you mentioned who are actual examples of what you're trying to say are Palmieri and Theodore.

Gardiner never played a single game for the Ducks organization. Weird to say he thrived once getting away from Anaheim when you have no idea how he would have faired here.

Montour certainly has not solidified himself as anything more than he was for the Ducks.

Vats is the same player in a larger role, producing roughly the same results - and he was traded for our current leading scorer. Fair to use that trade as an argument to call for the GMs head? Absolutely not.

Karlsson went to another team and was a 20 point bottom six guy for two years before breaking out. Even Vegas would admit they were surprised by what they ended up with. He definitely was not instantly better once free of Anaheim.

He's a legit top 6 center now but that 43 goal season is probably going to be an outlier, 39 goals in 145 games since then.

The Theodore move was really bad. Bringing back Carlyle was a terrible decision and there have been others - but over 12 years I think most GMs would have piled up a much worse track record.
Yeah, bringing Carlyle back was the only big headscratcher (well, that lead to another headscratcher of losing Theo - but all teams lost a player to Vegas).

Some mention he's bargaining and not bring in good players. Lol, how many good big FA signings have there been by any team lately? :laugh: Most teams shoot themselves in the foot with Ladd's, Lucic's, and Neal's of the world. We have brought in good minor deals (yes and some have not worked out as well).

Changing our GM will set us back some additional years is my belief. Fans seem to overlook the good things Bob has done. Yes, perhaps he has not been the best GM In the history of the NHL but look what decisions other GM's make and think again.
 

AngelDuck

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Well Theodore was a pretty big f*** up by this organization. Top pairing D and PP QB let go for nothing more than a salary dump.

but it’s common knowledge that Henry and Susan wanted Stoner off the books.

Letting go of Bob only sets us back if the replacement is worse than what we’ve seen from Bob in the last 4-5 years. He’s been pretty bad in that timeframe.

The bottom line is he has to commit to a direction soon. You either roll hard with this “core” and try to add the supplementary players necessary through trade in order to get back to contention(which would mean trading some prospects). or we need to consider selling harder than we have. Right now we are in between and I fear we are going to find ourselves stuck in purgatory
 

Kalv

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Just for interest - who do you guys view as some of the best GM's out there now?
 

Leonardo87

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Just for interest - who do you guys view as some of the best GM's out there now?

Gorton has done a good job for the Rangers, and Yzerman did very well in Tampa before he left, but has a big challenge in Detroit. Replacing Bob like you said will set them back, I get the whole accountability, and being upset, but action not just words needs to happen. I think Eakins let the young guys have too much leash, and he didn't held the vets accountable who were not playing well. But the injuries were a big factor but seems to be the same story every year, but that is why depth is so critical. Outside of Lindholm and Fowler, who else do you feel the most comfortable with in a Top 4 role? They had 6 and 7 or AHL guys taking up those spots when the Top 4 was missing guys.
 
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Paul4587

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Just for interest - who do you guys view as some of the best GM's out there now?

In no order here are some of the best:
Yzerman
Sweeney
Armstrong
MacLellan
Poile
Wilson
Holland (I’m mixed on this due to the state of Detroit when he left and the fact that a lot of his success was from inheriting Lidstrom but early results in Edmonton are pretty good)
Sakic
Kekalainen

Guys I have mixed feelings about - McPhee (technically not a GM anymore), Lou, Rutherford.

The rest it’s either too early to say (BriseBois, Gorton, Guerin etc) or are below average and their fans should be worried (Chayka, Bowman (controversial but he inherited those cups as far as I’m concerned), Tallon (game has passed him by at this point), Bergevin etc).

I would throw Murray in the second group with Lou etc somewhere. He does a lot of good but has some obvious flaws and it’s reasonable to question if he’s past his best as a GM. He’s awfully old school (which is both good and bad) and I’m not sure if he’s adapted the best over the past few years. Since the Carlyle hire he hasn’t done a lot of good. That move has set us back years IMO.
 

Kalv

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But as it was reported - players apparently wanted Carlyle back as well. Getzy, Pears, Kes (played for him in the A). So I'm not sure I want to put full blame on Bob, but nonetheless, that was a bad move from miles away :laugh: Randy did take us to another WCF tho, but after it was a downward spiral real quick.
 

DigiDuck

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But as it was reported - players apparently wanted Carlyle back as well. Getzy, Pears, Kes (played for him in the A). So I'm not sure I want to put full blame on Bob, but nonetheless, that was a bad move from miles away :laugh: Randy did take us to another WCF tho, but after it was a downward spiral real quick.
I'm still not convinced the "wanting back" is all that it seems. What if Bob put out a couple other options where these vets were like "ummmm, what? Let's just go with RC then." That seems like a BM tactic. I'm not going to lay blame squarely on him either, because these players are supposed to be professionals. But, RC should have never even been an option in that conversation to begin with.
 
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ADHB

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But as it was reported - players apparently wanted Carlyle back as well. Getzy, Pears, Kes (played for him in the A). So I'm not sure I want to put full blame on Bob, but nonetheless, that was a bad move from miles away :laugh: Randy did take us to another WCF tho, but after it was a downward spiral real quick.
If your boss came to you and said he wanted to hire a manager to be your superior, and asked if you were on board, what else would you say? "f*** that guy! Anyone but him."? Of course you're going to say you agree with the decision.
 
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I think those guys endorsing him was as much posturing in the media as anything. If the fan base hears an ex coach has been rehired who they grew pretty tired of thinks the players were on board then they’re less likely to question that decision.

Since when has Bob ever gave a shit about what the fans think?

Let's be real, there's nothing to indicate that players opposed it. Some fans want to believe that because it fits their narrative, that's it. He's a polarizing coach, I'm not sure why thats difficult for people to wrap their heads around.
 
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Hockey Duckie

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In 12 years, GM Murray has had the team in the playoffs for 8 years. He had a 6-year playoff streak, a 5-year Pacific Division streak, and went to two conference finals. For a team that doesn't get a top-5 pick in his 11 years overseeing the draft as a GM (he didn't become the Ducks' GM until Nov of 2008) we've hit a rough spot for the past two seasons. I maybe in the minority here, but I believe GM Murray when he says the players need to step up because when he became interim GM, the players did elevate their play. The past two seasons, GM Bob has denoted the same problem and that's with two different head coaches, without including himself (because the team responded well).

Vegas would have snagged any one of our top, young D-men and you'd all still be complaining. Vegas tweeted that they were eye-balling all of our defense before the expansion draft. It sucked that Vegas robbed us of our scouts' hard work drafting all those defensemen.

Bob Murray is in charge of head coaches and we bash Carlyle's second stint, but Carlyle did bring us to the playoffs twice in that stint along with a Conference Finals appearance. Carlyle broke Boudreau's "playoff home ice advantage to lose at him in game 7" curse. But the players eventually tuned him out.

Murray's too loyal and he gave Carlyle a long leash because the two playoffs berths bought him time. Murray's too loyal again with Eakins to give him full reign and be hands off b/c this was Eakins' second stint. Murray gave Eakins a liaison with Sutter as an inbetween so that Murray wouldn't be a helicopter mom/GM.

I read so many comment and the way it read its as if we were the Oil who has been collecting #1 overall picks, being at the bottom of the standings for a decade, and not be close to a playoff sniff.

We're spoiled. We had a 6-year playoff streak. We had a 5-year Pacific Division title. We do possess a lot of youthful talent, but the whole transition thing is a bit rough right now. I keep hearing, "trade every veteran away to get more draft picks." In 2016, we had two first round draft picks (Jones and Steel). In 2019, we had another two first round draft picks in Zegras and Tracey. This coming 2020 draft, we have another two first round draft picks.

It's been five years since Steel was drafted and we're still waiting for him to breakout to be average. Do people acknowledge it takes time to develop players, especially since we're usually drafting in the late 20s? Zegras is a 9th overall draft pick and his talent pushed him to get signed away from college after one year. Can Zegras finally break the "our scouts can't draft forwards" curse? Kase should have been that player, but he was far too injury prone to continue in a Ducks' uni.

Who knows if there is another better GM. I just know this GM is always thinking the present and tomorrow with his decisions. I was dismayed when he finally admitted that he was pushing the kids this past season when he said he wouldn't. But hey, he fessed up. He doesn't want that many youths up unless they've earned it.

But seriously, our defense has been devastated for the past couple of seasons due to mass injuries that most teams can't overcome. We lost our top-3/4 blue liners this past season and we still were able to win. We went 5-3-1 after the trade deadline with our new guys. We're fortunate everything stopped because we surely would have risen up with more wins to keep the faint playoff berth alive. Instead, we're stuck with the 5th overall pick today.

I guess we can make a significant change if we did what Burke did and sell off our farm. But what if we lose our scouts under Murray? Then we might be under Burke again and can't draft worth a crap. I like the devil I know than the devil I don't.
 

Paul4587

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Since when has Bob ever gave a shit about what the fans think?

Let's be real, there's nothing to indicate that players opposed it. Some fans want to believe that because it fits their narrative, that's it. He's a polarizing coach, I'm not sure why thats difficult for people to wrap their heads around.

He went out of his way to make the point that the players wanted him back as if he was trying to justify the hiring to the fan base. It seemed awfully forced. It wasn’t just mentioned, it was mentioned and repeated over and over again.
 
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duckpuck

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Well Theodore was a pretty big f*** up by this organization. Top pairing D and PP QB let go for nothing more than a salary dump.

but it’s common knowledge that Henry and Susan wanted Stoner off the books.

Letting go of Bob only sets us back if the replacement is worse than what we’ve seen from Bob in the last 4-5 years. He’s been pretty bad in that timeframe.

The bottom line is he has to commit to a direction soon. You either roll hard with this “core” and try to add the supplementary players necessary through trade in order to get back to contention(which would mean trading some prospects). or we need to consider selling harder than we have. Right now we are in between and I fear we are going to find ourselves stuck in purgatory

You think Henry and Susan made a decision on Stoner? The ducks were capped out and wanted to add players - it was dictated by Cap not ownership.

The Samuelis are among the most hands off owners in professional sports. They might have input regarding iconic players like Temu, Getz, and Perry, but I can't imagine them taking any position on a player like Stoner.

Murray was retained to get the team past a few bumpy rebuilding years and expansion. I think he's gone after next year, pretty much no matter what. And by gone, I mean kicked upstairs or put in a new lesser role.
 
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He went out of his way to make the point that the players wanted him back as if he was trying to justify the hiring to the fan base. It seemed awfully forced. It wasn’t just mentioned, it was mentioned and repeated over and over again.

I'm not even sure I can recall him ever mentioning it outside of the day Bob hired him, so this might be exactly what I'm talking about. It was mentioned a decent amount by media and fans, but thats something very different.

It's mostly just weird. Players made their own public praises and those players were all older and old school guys who also liked similar old school coaches. Its not a hard thing to piece together. Like people really can't comprehend Mike Babcock's favorite player being a fan of Randy Carlyle? The same Randy Carlyle who coached him during his greatest achievement in the sport?
 

AngelDuck

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You think Henry and Susan made a decision on Stoner? The ducks were capped out and wanted to add players - it was dictated by Cap not ownership.

The Samuelis are among the most hands off owners in professional sports. They might have input regarding iconic players like Temu, Getz, and Perry, but I can't imagine them taking any position on a player like Stoner.

Murray was retained to get the team past a few bumpy rebuilding years and expansion. I think he's gone after next year, pretty much no matter what. And by gone, I mean kicked upstairs or put in a new lesser role.
Yes I do. I have been told by someone close to ownership that the Samuelis were tired of Paying players not to play games for them.

I don’t know if the move was forced upon Bob but the Samuelis were certainly an influence there.

as for your last paragraph, I will believe that when I see it. He’s been given a ton of leeway and I’m not sure I see him going anywhere unless things get even worse
 

Hockey Duckie

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I'm glad for the clarification because I thought he was pinning it all on Eakins and that Eakins needed to whip the team into shape. Now, Bob is saying that he needed to whip the team up into shape.

I get what Murray was trying to say and do. Murray was trying not to intervene with Eakins because of the backlash Eakins received from his time in Edm. Bob wanted to show that he has full trust in Eakins to not be a part of the process b/c the Canadian media would have eaten it up that Eakins still wasn't ready to be a coach. Bob and his team apparently had ongoing discussions about helping Eakins throughout the season, but Bob didn't want the PR disaster that would be put on Eakins.

It's just weird seeing Bob think that far out for the PR stuff affecting Eakins, but also is still in line with his persona of trusting too much. Bob was trying to protect Eakins' sensitivity. heh

Reading that clarification made the original comments make a lot more sense. Bob was thinking about it in a totally different level.
 
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You know how athletes(and really just about anyone who takes questions from the media, especially politicians) use a lot of ums and uhs because they're trying to choose their words wisely? I think Bob's just the opposite of that, he just says mostly what comes to mind and has no concern over phrasing. It actually explains a lot if you view it through that lens.

I guess the difference here is that because there's no sports and he was the only one talking, it became a bit of a national story. Either way, I understand now why he avoids the media as much as he does.
 

Sniperberg

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If your boss came to you and said he wanted to hire a manager to be your superior, and asked if you were on board, what else would you say? "f*** that guy! Anyone but him."? Of course you're going to say you agree with the decision.

Thats such an American thing to do. Here in the civilized world you can bet that id tell my boss to reconsider if they thought about bringing in someone incapable of doing things.
 

Duck Off

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Murray sure does love blaming the players. Who is it again that built a roster where the best goal scorer is Adam Henrique? And then he goes on to praise maybe the most under achieving forward?

and the coaches. been saying this for years.

But as it was reported - players apparently wanted Carlyle back as well. Getzy, Pears, Kes (played for him in the A). So I'm not sure I want to put full blame on Bob, but nonetheless, that was a bad move from miles away :laugh: Randy did take us to another WCF tho, but after it was a downward spiral real quick.

big difference in wanting someone back and being okay with someone coming back.
 

AngelDuck

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Thats such an American thing to do. Here in the civilized world you can bet that id tell my boss to reconsider if they thought about bringing in someone incapable of doing things.
“Here in the civilized world”

The most condescending possible statment
 
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