Prospect Info: 2020-21 Flyers Prospects - Top 30 SKATERS, #7

[GapToothedWonder]

Laberge and Allison were also 2nd rounders.

Morin is not part of the poll anymore, so the 6 prospects Tripod was referring to:

O'Brien
Ginning
Ratcliffe
Rubstov
Laberge
Allison

All selected between 2016-2018. All Hextall picks. A few have been derailed by injuries. A few still have potential. A couple will never amount to anything at the NHL level.

The good thing is, we had a lot of picks in that time frame so we still managed to get some hits as well. Hart in 2016. Frost in 2017. Farabee in 2018.

At least with Allison he still feels like a total wild card. Who knows what could happen if he strings together 2+ healthy seasons. Where as the rest have done more themselves to make me lose faith in them haha.

 

[Rebels57]

At least with Allison he still feels like a total wild card. Who knows what could happen if he strings together 2+ healthy seasons. Where as the rest have done more themselves to make me lose faith in them haha.

I'm also not giving up on Ratcliffe yet. He only has 1 truncated AHL season under his belt.

Playing for Gordon makes everyone look worse.

This team BADLY needs to change the way they utilize the AHL. Its possibly the organizations biggest need.

 

[BiggE]

The other correct answer is:

Someone who Dave Scott has never heard of

 

[BiggE]

I'm also not giving up on Ratcliffe yet. He only has 1 truncated AHL season under his belt.

Playing for Gordon makes everyone look worse.

This team BADLY needs to change the way they utilize the AHL. Its possibly the organizations biggest need.

With our luck they’ll fire Gordon and send down Lappy to be his replacement

 

[Ghosts Beer]

6’5” lanky offensive players tend to have a longer developmental timetable. Ratclifffe couldn’t just use his size & reach to dominate against professional men in the AHL. It’s a learning experience. But he has offensive talent. Much better than he showed his rookie pro season. Has to get stronger, fill out, & get his brain adjusted to the speed of the pro game. I did expect a little more from him, but he’s someone who needs some seasoning. I think he’ll be much better this year. Has a higher ceiling than probably everyone left, so my choice at 7. I have Wisdom up there, too.

 

[Alex91]

The "misses" are a reminder that you should continue to draft in bulk when you can. The topic of the 2016 is who didn't workout instead of talking about getting a franchise goalie in the second round that has given you tremendous surplus value on his rookie contract. That's a homerun. That's possible because of the trade back and having four picks in the top 60. Not to sound like a broken record, but the problem I had with this year's draft is they traded multiple 2020 picks prior to the draft, they trade more on draft day and they walk out of the draft with five players. That's fine if the selections have the upside to justify pouring most of your capital into five players, but I don't think they did. Time will tell.

I don't like complaining too much about picks in hindsight because drafting teenagers is hard. Some teams make it harder than it has to be, but there is still a lot of volatility.

• Rubtsov was a fine pick on draft day. It's a reminder of the dangers of picking players from the MHL in the first round, but it's hard to blame the team for not having the forsight that he would completely forget how to play with the puck. I still think there's a decent chance he's a capable fourth liner which would be a small win.
• Laberge just completely regressed after he got drafted. A lot of players don't improve after 18, few actually regress. I didn't see that coming. Maybe others did.
• Allison had his flaws but he was probably the best player in the best conference in college hockey as a sophomore before he blew his knee out. It was a good pick even if Allison doesn't overcome the injuries.
• I was never a big Ratcliffe fan (he's no Robertson) and his potential has been overrated for some time, but there's still a window for him to be an NHL player. He doesn't belong in a Laberge discussion.
• O'Brien I think is the best player of this group. It's just been an odd journey to say the least. I'll wait until after the season to bury him. I still think he's an NHLer even if he's not the player I would have taken in that spot.
• Ginning was an absolutely garbage pick. Same as it was on draft day. Made no sense at the time. Still makes no sense. That pick deserves all of the scrutiny it gets.

While we complain about the misses, it is important to remember that the Flyers have also found a top 4 defenseman via CHL Undrafted Free Agency which is pretty much unheard of...and they possibly found another player that could be even better from the same pool. They deserve big props there.


He had a very good year but still wasn't even the best overage defenseman on Everett. Great impact on GF but was firmly in the red when it came to goal prevention relative to his teammates. He's a decent prospect but I have a feeling that he may be a bit of a tweener at the next level. I'd say he leans toward the offensive side of the game (preferable at his age), but I don't think his skills are quite high end and I'm not sure that the offense will translate enough to project him as an NHL regular at this point. Everett pretty much only played four defensemen so his numbers are likely inflated (25+ minutes a night) and he had a lot of PP production that is unlikely to be replicated at the pro level. A large chunk of his offense was based around a high volume of point shots and I don't think that is translatable to the pro game so he'll probably have to adapt. It's not like he completely lacks passing skills though. A third pair defenseman would be a great outcome, but more likely he's a guy that bounces up and down.

The only thing that made sense about the Ginning draft pick was that he was a D.

After they took 2FW in 1st round it was 100% guaranteed they were going D.

 

[Rebels57]

The only thing that made sense about the Ginning draft pick was that he was a D.

After they took 2FW in 1st round it was 100% guaranteed they were going D.

They had Calen Addison, among others, right there for the taking. He's a righty to boot. His stock has only increased in value since the draft too. Ginning was just a f***ing disaster of a pick.

 

[Adtar02]

With our luck they’ll fire Gordon and send down Lappy to be his replacement

If he implements a system and work ethic. He would a vast improvement

 

[orangey]

If he implements a system and work ethic. He would a vast improvement

They need to change something there, that's for sure. With them being disappointing for a couple years now it's very hard to understand why they haven't changed things up. They have more than enough evidence that it's not working. What else do they need to see to conclude a change is in order? It's bizarre.

 

[TB87]

Ginning is mobile in the sense that he is ambulatory. Lateral agility/skating is still a sloppy mess, edges are still a mess, pivots are still a mess, & his crossovers are still a mess.


Don’t get me started on his passing ability. Woooooooooof. Immediate comparison: Hagg’s a better passer. It’s hard to be a worse passer than Hagg but Ginning manages to pull it off.

 

[deadhead]

Ginning was the right pick a couple rounds early, by that I mean the Flyers do need to draft a certain share of big defensemen to pair with undersized mobile guys - but St Ivany was a 4th rd pick, if he doesn't work out, shrug your shoulders. Attard, who has more skill than Ginning, was a 3rd rd pick. So buying big lottery tickets makes sense for an organization whose only big D-men are Myers (and Morin).

Hagg is a different matter, he's an example why projection is tough, started well but flatlined. Physically he's got the skills you want in a big defensive defenseman, he actually is decent on offense and isn't a bad skater, problem is either he's slow on the uptake or has been badly coached. I'm willing to see what Yeo can do with him, you're not going to make him into a crisp passing, puck moving D-man, but they have plenty of guys who can do that - what you hope to do is improve his positioning and anticipation so he can be a force in the D-zone. There's a lot of big defensemen who've put together ten year careers with that sort of skill package, but they do it with smarts as well as size.

 

[BiggE]

If he implements a system and work ethic. He would a vast improvement

Yeah anything would be an upgrade from Mimsy

 

[Rebels57]

Ginning was the right pick a couple rounds early, by that I mean the Flyers do need to draft a certain share of big defensemen to pair with undersized mobile guys - but St Ivany was a 4th rd pick, if he doesn't work out, shrug your shoulders. Attard, who has more skill than Ginning, was a 3rd rd pick. So buying big lottery tickets makes sense for an organization whose only big D-men are Myers (and Morin).

Hagg is a different matter, he's an example why projection is tough, started well but flatlined. Physically he's got the skills you want in a big defensive defenseman, he actually is decent on offense and isn't a bad skater, problem is either he's slow on the uptake or has been badly coached. I'm willing to see what Yeo can do with him, you're not going to make him into a crisp passing, puck moving D-man, but they have plenty of guys who can do that - what you hope to do is improve his positioning and anticipation so he can be a force in the D-zone. There's a lot of big defensemen who've put together ten year careers with that sort of skill package, but they do it with smarts as well as size.

This is an amazing amount of bullshit for one post

 

[deadhead]

This is an amazing amount of bullshit for one post

TB probably has the biggest D-corp in the NHL, and Cooper, as we've been told, is a genius.

Flyers have one of the lightest D-groups in the NHL, and York, Zamula and Andrae aren't going to change that.
So the organization needs to develop some big defensemen.
The question is whether they know how to draft the right big defensemen.

Hagg has good size and is willing to hit people and block shots, is a decent skater, has a good shot, in terms of raw skill, he has what it takes to be a good defensive defenseman in the NHL. His problem is mental, he gets caught out of position too often and panics with the puck instead of making the decisive first pass out of the D-zone.

 

[wasup]

They had Calen Addison, among others, right there for the taking. He's a righty to boot. His stock has only increased in value since the draft too. Ginning was just a f***ing disaster of a pick.

I hate Addision , i have seen him play many many times over the year and in Brandon the last couple times . He is a defensive liability big time and at the world juniors last year they figured that out as the tournament went on and he ended up getting power play time and shelved otherwise .

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Addison might not be a great prospect but he was a key piece in the Zucker trade for Pittsburgh. So like him or not as a prospect he still held some decent/good trade value.

That likely wasn’t/isn’t the case with Ginning at this point.

 

[Appleyard]

Should have just gone fwd.

Hållander or Thomas. BPAs 1+2 haha.

 

[FLYguy3911]

The only thing that made sense about the Ginning draft pick was that he was a D.

After they took 2FW in 1st round it was 100% guaranteed they were going D.

Nothing about drafting for need in the second round makes any sense. Why make ~20% odds even longer? And factor in 16 defensemen went in between pick 19 and pick 50.

 

[deadhead]

Who was the Swedish scout and is he still with the team?
Because it sounds like someone fell in love with Ginning.

 

[Rebels57]

Addison might not be a great prospect but he was a key piece in the Zucker trade for Pittsburgh. So like him or not as a prospect he still held some decent/good trade value.

That likely wasn’t/isn’t the case with Ginning at this point.

Exactly. He's still a much more valuable asset than Ginning.

 

[Rebels57]

Should have just gone fwd.

Hållander or Thomas. BPAs 1+2 haha.

Yeah Akil Thomas was my guy that day in the 2nd

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I wanted Hallander with the Ginning pick—I was very high on Hallander entering the draft as one of those guys you win with even though he’s not particularly slick with the puck—but I’ll continue to defend the Ginning pick. At 50, you’re probably not getting a star, defensemen are more valuable than forwards, contrary to this board’s general belief you can’t have a D of 6 tiny puck carriers (see Tampa), big penalty killing defensemen are valuable, & Ginning seemed like a lock to play in the NHL with maybe some latent upside. If you think you’ve got another Hjalmarsson at 50, you take it. He was a consensus 2nd rounder, not a big reach.

I still think he’ll make it as a 3rd pairing defenseman in the NHL — this league is very short on defensemen, especially long, strong defensemen with decent mobility. And he’s smart with a good reach & stick defensively. He’s still developing; I wouldn’t write him off at 20.

 

[Magua]

Who was the Swedish scout and is he still with the team?
Because it sounds like someone fell in love with Ginning.

Even incarcerated murders have people fall in love with them and marry them from prison.

What I’m saying is: there’s someone for everyone.