Speculation: 2020-2021 Sharks Roster Discussion Part 9

[STL Shark]

Andrew Hammond syndrome?

Nah. Driedger has been putting up solid numbers for 3 years now. Hammond had bad AHL numbers when he got the call and caught lightning in a bottle. Think he’s more Thomas Greiss than Hamburglar.

 

[STL Shark]

I don't get why anyone wants to pay assets or term to any goalie right now. This team isn't good defensively and only an elite goalie is going to help cover for that and I don't see that available. They need to bide their time in net until someone develops or you take a value bet in UFA/trade for a cap dump goalie that gets the team an extra asset. I'd move any roster player to get rid of Jones just about.

You have to begin trying to fix that position because having a horrible goalie makes it impossible to truly evaluate anything else on the team because it has such a dramatic effect on how the game is being played/perceived.

If you’re going to go the take a cap dump route and/or don’t address it, then what’s the point of giving up assets or cap space to move Jones? May as well just keep him around and “bide their time” with him if you’re not going to try and actively improve the situation.

 

[Barrie22]

Nah. Driedger has been putting up solid numbers for 3 years now. Hammond had bad AHL numbers when he got the call and caught lightning in a bottle. Think he’s more Thomas Greiss than Hamburglar.

Current goalie getting the hammond syndrom is binnington.

 

[Alwalys]

You have to begin trying to fix that position because having a horrible goalie makes it impossible to truly evaluate anything else on the team because it has such a dramatic effect on how the game is being played/perceived.

If you’re going to go the take a cap dump route and/or don’t address it, then what’s the point of giving up assets or cap space to move Jones? May as well just keep him around and “bide their time” with him if you’re not going to try and actively improve the situation.

A decent goalie can help the team out with puck placement and playing the puck. Jones is so overwhelmed trying to make the save that he's not doing either of those. When he's at his best he's swallowing pucks and getting faceoffs. He has zero puck skills or inclination to play the puck and that is like playing down a half or a quarter of a player compared to other teams, that are often better to begin with.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

You have to begin trying to fix that position because having a horrible goalie makes it impossible to truly evaluate anything else on the team because it has such a dramatic effect on how the game is being played/perceived.

If you’re going to go the take a cap dump route and/or don’t address it, then what’s the point of giving up assets or cap space to move Jones? May as well just keep him around and “bide their time” with him if you’re not going to try and actively improve the situation.

The point is that Jones is not the solution and you need to hold repeated poor play to account. Simply going with anyone at minimum salary is actively improving the situation because of how bad he’s been and how reallocating those cap dollars likely improves the team.

 

[magic school bus]

I don’t think you can fault DW on not executing yet. He’s known to be a big whale hunter as well as seeks bargains at the same time. With the cap staying steady and Seattle coming into the league, there are going to be many players available to pick up. He probably also wanted to have a full year to evaluate some of the young talent to see what he has that’s worth keeping versus using as trade bait. I’m sure he has a plan. Be patient. I’d rather he take his time with shrewd moves like Donato and Balcers than a dumb move that we all regret.

I'm all for giving guys an opportunity to play, but if DW and his staff don't already know who is worth keeping around they are a bunch of idiots.

They have had many of these players around for years. They scouted, drafted, signed, traded for them. They've seen them practice, play games. They even know intimate details about their families and how they are as teammates. They should know these guys better than any team in the league. The Sharks should not need a whole year to evaluate their own prospects.

The self scouting of this team has fallen off a cliff. Remember when we traded Setoguchi and Charlie Coyle at their peak value for Burns? We didn't have to see Coyle play in the NHL yet to know what we were giving up. They knew details about Seto that made him available for trade. What happened to that team?

 

[sharks_dynasty]

I'm all for giving guys an opportunity to play, but if DW and his staff don't already know who is worth keeping around they are a bunch of idiots.

They have had many of these players around for years. They scouted, drafted, signed, traded for them. They've seen them practice, play games. They even know intimate details about their families and how they are as teammates. They should know these guys better than any team in the league. The Sharks should not need a whole year to evaluate their own prospects.

The self scouting of this team has fallen off a cliff. Remember when we traded Setoguchi and Charlie Coyle at their peak value for Burns? We didn't have to see Coyle play in the NHL yet to know what we were giving up. They knew details about Seto that made him available for trade. What happened to that team?

It’s a different era. At that time we had a lot of core pieces in place and could afford to give up a promising player like Coyle to upgrade further. Now we are desperate to find some gems in our younger talent to determine which holes we can fill and who has good value for trades so we can package for an upgrade. When you are a good team, all your players look better because a rising tide raises all ships, including trade value for individual players. At this point, our players are all under performing, which hurts their trade value. It puts DW in a much tougher position to rebuild the roster.

 

[seroes]

The point is that Jones is not the solution and you need to hold repeated poor play to account. Simply going with anyone at minimum salary is actively improving the situation because of how bad he’s been and how reallocating those cap dollars likely improves the team.

But does it improve us enough?
3.75 million saving next year and 3.25 the next two isn't going to do a whole lot considering how bad we are. A 3C and Balcers raise maybe. While I'm certainly not against buying out Jones, it doesn't solve our defensive, scoring or goaltending issues. At minimum salary goaltender isn't going to improve much if at all. It just seems like we are spinning our wheels without moving out someone else too.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

But does it improve us enough?
3.75 million saving next year and 3.25 the next two isn't going to do a whole lot considering how bad we are. A 3C and Balcers raise maybe. While I'm certainly not against buying out Jones, it doesn't solve our defensive, scoring or goaltending issues. At minimum salary goaltender isn't going to improve much if at all. It just seems like we are spinning our wheels without moving out someone else too.

When it comes to Jones, it doesn't matter how much it improves us. Sometimes you have to move on because it sends the wrong message that someone's job is safe no matter how much or how long they've performed poorly. There are a lot more things wrong with the team than is right. They need significant turnover and that will take time to complete and time to become cohesive. Getting the right goalie to fit is one of the last pieces I'd look to get unless someone elite is for the taking.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

When it comes to Jones, it doesn't matter how much it improves us. Sometimes you have to move on because it sends the wrong message that someone's job is safe no matter how much or how long they've performed poorly. There are a lot more things wrong with the team than is right. They need significant turnover and that will take time to complete and time to become cohesive. Getting the right goalie to fit is one of the last pieces I'd look to get unless someone elite is for the taking.

While I was leaning towards having Jones around during the rebuild (to save $$) you make a good case about sending the wrong message with regards to accountability. It will set a bad example to the younger players. In addition these early goals have to be demoralizing for all the skaters again and again.

 

[TheBeard]

I agree about DW waiting closer to the expansion draft. There are going to be a lot of available goalies on the market and teams will probably take pennies on the dollar at the risk of losing one. I don't love Jake Allen but he would be an upgrade. Korpisalo, Samsonov... they're not perfect but anything above Jones is elite.

 

[seroes]

When it comes to Jones, it doesn't matter how much it improves us. Sometimes you have to move on because it sends the wrong message that someone's job is safe no matter how much or how long they've performed poorly. There are a lot more things wrong with the team than is right. They need significant turnover and that will take time to complete and time to become cohesive. Getting the right goalie to fit is one of the last pieces I'd look to get unless someone elite is for the taking.

I'm not sure there is a goalie like that available, but even if there is we don't have the cap to pursue. Or the defense for it to matter.

 

[Barrie22]

Is there a buy out period after the expansion draft?

 

[seroes]

While I was leaning towards having Jones around during the rebuild (to save $$) you make a good case about sending the wrong message with regards to accountability. It will set a bad example to the younger players. In addition these early goals have to be demoralizing for all the skaters again and again.

While both of those are true, if we are tanking it almost doesn't matter because most of the vets will be going and it won't matter who is in net.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

While both of those are true, if we are tanking it almost doesn't matter because most of the vets will be going and it won't matter who is in net.

Which makes it even more imperative that they move on from Jones. The young players need to be put in a situation to succeed. Having Jones in goal is the opposite of that.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'm not sure there is a goalie like that available, but even if there is we don't have the cap to pursue. Or the defense for it to matter.

I don't think there is either but I'm not worried about having someone better than Jones. I'm only worried about getting rid of him. Any replacement will be better from cost-effective perspective. Turn the page and focus on fixing team defense and offense concerns and goaltending can be taken care of concurrently or after. It's more important to show some real accountability here.

Is there a buy out period after the expansion draft?

The buyout period occurs before and after expansion draft.

 

[seroes]

Which makes it even more imperative that they move on from Jones. The young players need to be put in a situation to succeed. Having Jones in goal is the opposite of that.

In 1-2 years maybe once our prospects who will/should be part of our core start coming up. But right now our young players are all just guys in our bottom six and it hasn't made much difference who plays or not.

 

[seroes]

I don't think there is either but I'm not worried about having someone better than Jones. I'm only worried about getting rid of him. Any replacement will be better from cost-effective perspective. Turn the page and focus on fixing team defense and offense concerns and goaltending can be taken care of concurrently or after. It's more important to show some real accountability here.



The buyout period occurs before and after expansion draft.

That's fair. It just worries me that the organization doesn't seem to have a plan right now. Buying out Jones is not a solution but rather step one.

In addition what happens in 2 years when Vlassic declines even further? Would we buy him out too? That's alot of dead money.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

That's fair. It just worries me that the organization doesn't seem to have a plan right now. Buying out Jones is not a solution but rather step one.

In addition what happens in 2 years when Vlassic declines even further? Would we buy him out too? That's alot of dead money.

If Vlasic declines further in a couple years, assuming no trade is available, I'm alright with buying him out too. But if Lucic can get traded, the Sharks should be able to find trades for these two. At that point, it's either buy him out, find a trade, or bury him and save 1.15 mil. I'd rather buy him out at that point.

 

[TheBeard]

That's fair. It just worries me that the organization doesn't seem to have a plan right now. Buying out Jones is not a solution but rather step one.

In addition what happens in 2 years when Vlassic declines even further? Would we buy him out too? That's alot of dead money.

Would you be willing to trade draft capital and how much to grab one of the unknown guys around the league like Georgiev or Vanacek (or even Samsonov if they preferred the other)? How about Chris Dridgier?

 

[magic school bus]

In 1-2 years maybe once our prospects who will/should be part of our core start coming up. But right now our young players are all just guys in our bottom six and it hasn't made much difference who plays or not.

Agreed. It's a different story if the Sharks have Weisblatt, Bordeleau, etc out there. This is a veteran team with a handful of lower prospects (other than Leonard).

 

[OrrNumber4]

Weisblatt and Bordeleau don't seem to be blue chip prospects. You need a Stützle or a Kakko to build around.

If you think that Karlsson/Burns/Hertl is a sufficient core, then waiting for Weisblatt or Bordeleau makes sense.

 

[fasterthanlight]

Weisblatt and Bordeleau don't seem to be blue chip prospects. You need a Struggle or a Kakko to build around.

If you think that Karlsson/Burns/Hertl is a sufficient core, then waiting for Weisblatt or Bordeleau makes sense.

We got that

 

[tealzamboni]

Pateryn looked alright for a bottom pairing D. Not a crusher, but seemed comfortable initiating contact. Plus I hear he speaks fluent Ukrainian.

 

[magic school bus]

Weisblatt and Bordeleau don't seem to be blue chip prospects. You need a Stützle or a Kakko to build around.

If you think that Karlsson/Burns/Hertl is a sufficient core, then waiting for Weisblatt or Bordeleau makes sense.

If we tank right, we could have Weisblatt/Bordeleau and two Kakko type players plus whatever we get from trading Couture, Hertl, Burns and others two years from now.