Speculation: 2020-2021: Sharks Roster Discussion Part 5

[Mr Fahrenheit]

I meant the marleau name on the cup thing.

I cant imagine the Sharks wouldnt have his name put on the Cup in that theoretical situation

 

[seroes]

Good enough for what? I think it's good enough for 4th in the division considering who they're up against. No more no less. I don't think they're a contender but I don't think they're a basement team with this roster and coaching. We'll find out soon enough. Either way it's a short season so if it's bad we won't have to endure it for long.

If you're right I will gladly enjoy my bowl of crow as the sharks win. I've prepared myself mentally for a bad year. But I would love to see the Sharks in the playoffs as long as they look decent.

One thing I think we can all agree on is our 1st round picks need to be off limits until we know where we stand.

 

[Barrie22]

I cant imagine the Sharks wouldnt have his name put on the Cup in that theoretical situation

I am pretty sure that even with the special requests for players names he would not be eligible. Those requests are for players that were big parts of the team that was just injured.

 

[WTFetus]

I am pretty sure that even with the special requests for players names he would not be eligible. Those requests are for players that were big parts of the team that was just injured.

I was always curious about this in the NHL. Because in the NBA, players traded at the TDL would still get a ring if their former team won.

Like does Jack Johnson have a ring from the 11-12 season or is his name on the Cup? Doesn't make sense how a player who played 60+ games in the regular season wouldn't qualify, but a player like Jamal Mayers who played 19 regular season games and 0 games in the playoffs does.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

If you're right I will gladly enjoy my bowl of crow as the sharks win. I've prepared myself mentally for a bad year. But I would love to see the Sharks in the playoffs as long as they look decent.

One thing I think we can all agree on is our 1st round picks need to be off limits until we know where we stand.

Yeah I'm never in the camp that says picks are off limits. I've seen plenty of teams with high picks fail with them. Picks are never a guarantee of greatness. I would gladly trade a 1st in a package to get a legit top 6 player on an ELC. how about for Eichel? How many 1sts would you give up? For me..? 2? 3? whatever it took pretty much. An elite franchise center would be worth picks easily.

As far as this season. I've been watching hockey for around 40 years. This team should not be bad and won't be unless injuries hit like last season. Even if they do they should be better off than they were last year although probably not playoff material. If healthy, Hertl is a legit #1 center (not elite, not superstar). Couture is at least an average or better 2nd line center and Kane and Meier are legit first line wingers. 2 top 10 (offensively) d-men and another 3 who are probably in the 3, 5 and 6 (7?) range. Then a legit battle between 3 guys for the last spot. As far as forwards, there are plenty of close to if not outright ready prospects mixed with vets to fill the bottom 6 and then some.

If they do what I predict, there will be no crow to eat. We'll all just enjoy it together. No one wants to watch shitty hockey.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Because this team loves to have bittersweet moments, we’re gonna trade Marleau to a team like the Avs and then go on a scorcher where we somehow win the cup while beating the Avs and Leafs.

My goodness, that would be just the worst thing to happen. I hope fate doesn't decide to punish the Sharks so horribly!

 

[LadyStanley]

WRT Sharks not streaming (all) scrimmages....

They are not at SoFA/home. I have no idea what the status of wifi/internet at their location is.

So, I cannot condemn them for not streaming if there's a technical limitation.




They are far (physically) from their fan base. I hope they don't become far (figuratively) from providing good content to their fans as they are banished by the county.

 

[sharski]

we shouldn't panic just yet... i think we should try to respect their boundaries and give them space for a little bit of time if they need it before we assume their intention is to give us the cold shoulder

if after 3 days, we text them asking if they want to meet up and they just respond with a single "k" though, I have some bad news...

 

[seroes]

Yeah I'm never in the camp that says picks are off limits. I've seen plenty of teams with high picks fail with them. Picks are never a guarantee of greatness. I would gladly trade a 1st in a package to get a legit top 6 player on an ELC. how about for Eichel? How many 1sts would you give up? For me..? 2? 3? whatever it took pretty much. An elite franchise center would be worth picks easily.

As far as this season. I've been watching hockey for around 40 years. This team should not be bad and won't be unless injuries hit like last season. Even if they do they should be better off than they were last year although probably not playoff material. If healthy, Hertl is a legit #1 center (not elite, not superstar). Couture is at least an average or better 2nd line center and Kane and Meier are legit first line wingers. 2 top 10 (offensively) d-men and another 3 who are probably in the 3, 5 and 6 (7?) range. Then a legit battle between 3 guys for the last spot. As far as forwards, there are plenty of close to if not outright ready prospects mixed with vets to fill the bottom 6 and then some.

If they do what I predict, there will be no crow to eat. We'll all just enjoy it together. No one wants to watch shitty hockey.

For Eichel? Absolutely. If the Sabres are insane and put him up then going for him makes absolute sense if we can make the cap work. And for getting a top six forward on an ELC? I would too. But those are the players teams build around, they rarely want to trade them unless they think a bigger piece is coming back. (Sadly we don't have one). But a veteran top six forward on yet another long term contract? Nope.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

For Eichel? Absolutely. If the Sabres are insane and put him up then going for him makes absolute sense if we can make the cap work. And for getting a top six forward on an ELC? I would too. But those are the players teams build around, they rarely want to trade them unless they think a bigger piece is coming back. (Sadly we don't have one). But a veteran top six forward on yet another long term contract? Nope.

Eichel is just an example... Point being 1st round picks aren't untouchable in the right deal. Sabres may have to put him up for trade if he doesn't like where the team is going. Already been rumors...

as far as a vet coming back, doubt that's something DW is even entertaining at this point. I bet he's only looking at 25 and younger as far as bigger trades that might involve a 1st. Maybe someone like Laine could be a target. Just spitballing on names that are rumored to be available. Gadreau is another.

 

[seroes]

Eichel is just an example... Point being 1st round picks aren't untouchable in the right deal. Sabres may have to put him up for trade if he doesn't like where the team is going. Already been rumors...

Fair enough. I just don't think a Joe Thornton 2.0 trade is coming.

As for those rumors, I know its Buffalo but they can't be that dumb right?

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Fair enough. I just don't think a Joe Thornton 2.0 trade is coming.

As for those rumors, I know its Buffalo but they can't be that dumb right?

They won't have a choice if he decides he wants out. If he goes public with it because they don't comply, it'll hamstring their potential return because everyone will know they have to move him.

As far as Jumbo 2.0... don't be so sure. I don't know another GM who has been able to add the elite talent thru trade the way DW has. Jumbo, Burns, Heatley (at the time), Boyle, EK65... All elite or on the cusp on being elite players when they were acquired. Burns had 17 goals as a D-man the season before the Sharks got him. Heatly was a recent 50 goal scorer and I think 2x 100 point player... DW is at his best when a team or the player decides they no longer want to be there. I don't know if he's working on something for certain but this sure feels like one of those moments where he pulls something off. Might not be until next offseason though when there will be a lot of roster upheaval in the league due to the expansion draft.

 

[Barrie22]

They won't have a choice if he decides he wants out. If he goes public with it because they don't comply, it'll hamstring their potential return because everyone will know they have to move him.

As far as Jumbo 2.0... don't be so sure. I don't know another GM who has been able to add the elite talent thru trade the way DW has. Jumbo, Burns, Heatley (at the time), Boyle, EK65... All elite or on the cusp on being elite players when they were acquired. Burns had 17 goals as a D-man the season before the Sharks got him. Heatly was a recent 50 goal scorer and I think 2x 100 point player... DW is at his best when a team or the player decides they no longer want to be there. I don't know if he's working on something for certain but this sure feels like one of those moments where he pulls something off. Might not be until next offseason though when there will be a lot of roster upheaval in the league due to the expansion draft.

Burns also did those 17 goals on a team that was offensively challenged. He was tied for 2nd/3rd on the team in points with 46. And 4th on the team in goals. 3 seasons prior he put up 15 goals and 43 points also, which was followed by 2 injury plagued years, one of which he put up 8 goals in 59 games.

Interesting note from looking at his stats in his career, for a defensemen that is as big as burns he really does not take that many penalties. Career high 98 and has only ever cracked 50+ minutes of penalties in 4 of his 16 year career.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Burns also did those 17 goals on a team that was offensively challenged. He was tied for 2nd/3rd on the team in points with 46. And 4th on the team in goals. 3 seasons prior he put up 15 goals and 43 points also, which was followed by 2 injury plagued years, one of which he put up 8 goals in 59 games.

Interesting note from looking at his stats in his career, for a defensemen that is as big as burns he really does not take that many penalties. Career high 98 and has only ever cracked 50+ minutes of penalties in 4 of his 16 year career.

Not sure what the point of detailing Burns history was? A D-man scoring 17 goals isn't just something you manufacture unless the D man has high end skill. Burns was an 1st round pick with freakish agility and speed for someone his size. Once he got past his injuries he started dominating offensively. In my post I said "on the cusp" which DW obviously thought he was when he traded for him. One thing that's interesting though is that the Sharks recently acquired another D-man who went thru some injuries in his first 2 years with the team. When the Sharks acquired Gary Sutter he was also injured right after they got him. Maybe it's a right of passage thing.. or shitty luck for this team.

 

[Barrie22]

Not sure what the point of detailing Burns history was? A D-man scoring 17 goals isn't just something you manufacture unless the D man has high end skill. Burns was an 1st round pick with freakish agility and speed for someone his size. Once he got past his injuries he started dominating offensively. In my post I said "on the cusp" which DW obviously thought he was when he traded for him. One thing that's interesting though is that the Sharks recently acquired another D-man who went thru some injuries in his first 2 years with the team. When the Sharks acquired Gary Sutter he was also injured right after they got him. Maybe it's a right of passage thing.. or shitty luck for this team.

No point, just adding that it was on a bad team offensively and to show that the one 18 goal season was not a fluke really with a 15 goal season 3 years earlier.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

No point, just adding that it was on a bad team offensively and to show that the one 18 goal season was not a fluke really with a 15 goal season 3 years earlier.

Ok, gotcha. Cool, man.

Ya know another player I forgot to add... Kane. DW got Kane at a good value when he was 26 and he's led the team in goals ever since. That's a lot of high end players he's added thru trade.

 

[OrrNumber4]

They won't have a choice if he decides he wants out. If he goes public with it because they don't comply, it'll hamstring their potential return because everyone will know they have to move him.

As far as Jumbo 2.0... don't be so sure. I don't know another GM who has been able to add the elite talent thru trade the way DW has. Jumbo, Burns, Heatley (at the time), Boyle, EK65... All elite or on the cusp on being elite players when they were acquired. Burns had 17 goals as a D-man the season before the Sharks got him. Heatly was a recent 50 goal scorer and I think 2x 100 point player... DW is at his best when a team or the player decides they no longer want to be there. I don't know if he's working on something for certain but this sure feels like one of those moments where he pulls something off. Might not be until next offseason though when there will be a lot of roster upheaval in the league due to the expansion draft.

Outside of the Thornton trade (arguably, he qualifies due to playoff failures), there's always been a fly (if not a roach) in the ointment of the player being acquired. Burns had tremendous talent (basically freakish physical tools) but had struggled to put it together and was highly unlikely to re-sign in Minnesota. Heatley had a monstrous contract and a NTC. Boyle was not quite an elite talent, had disputes with TB management, was coming off of a long injury, and had a fat contract. Karlsson had the injury history and was also on an expiring contract.

Dubois and Eichel both have their squabbles with management, and Eichel has the fat contract...

 

[Barrie22]

Outside of the Thornton trade (arguably, he qualifies due to playoff failures), there's always been a fly (if not a roach) in the ointment of the player being acquired. Burns had tremendous talent (basically freakish physical tools) but had struggled to put it together and was highly unlikely to re-sign in Minnesota. Heatley had a monstrous contract and a NTC. Boyle was not quite an elite talent, had disputes with TB management, was coming off of a long injury, and had a fat contract. Karlsson had the injury history and was also on an expiring contract.

Dubois and Eichel both have their squabbles with management, and Eichel has the fat contract...

Would you say boyle was elite offensively for the sharks?

 

[Mattb124]

Would you say boyle was elite offensively for the sharks?

I would say so. He was as high as 4th in D scoring league-wide during his time here.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Would you say boyle was elite offensively for the sharks?

Just on the outside edge. Just looking at offense, I would say that Karlsson, Lidstrom, Green, and Keith clearly have the case over him. Niedermayer, Pronger, Markov, Rafalski, Weber, Letang, and Subban have a case as well.

Regardless, he was coming off an injury and had management squabbles before getting traded (not to mention his age)...it wasn't seen as a steal at the time.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Just on the outside edge. Just looking at offense, I would say that Karlsson, Lidstrom, Green, and Keith clearly have the case over him. Niedermayer, Pronger, Markov, Rafalski, Weber, Letang, and Subban have a case as well.

Regardless, he was coming off an injury and had management squabbles before getting traded (not to mention his age)...it wasn't seen as a steal at the time.

Wasnt the squabble that they wanted to trade Boyle, tho?

 

[Mattb124]

Wasnt the squabble that they wanted to trade Boyle, tho?

Yes, it was and how TBL management handled it. He was signed to an extension and the new management asked him to waive/accept a trade before he played a single game under that contract. From what I recall, it would be a stretch to blame any of that on Boyle.

 

[Barrie22]

Yes, it was and how TBL management handled it. He was signed to an extension and the new management asked him to waive/accept a trade before he played a single game under that contract. From what I recall, it would be a stretch to blame any of that on Boyle.

The entire thing was waive the trade clause or we bury you in the ahl. Had nothing to do with boyle.

 

[Barrie22]

Just on the outside edge. Just looking at offense, I would say that Karlsson, Lidstrom, Green, and Keith clearly have the case over him. Niedermayer, Pronger, Markov, Rafalski, Weber, Letang, and Subban have a case as well.

Regardless, he was coming off an injury and had management squabbles before getting traded (not to mention his age)...it wasn't seen as a steal at the time.

Yes it was, he was highly wanted at that time but he would only waive to come play in san jose with thornton and marleau.

He was 32 and had just come off of 2 of 3 years potting 50+ points with one of those years being a career high 63 points. And that 3rd year he had 25 points in 37 games played. Which was on pace for 55 points.

 

[tiburon12]

Just on the outside edge. Just looking at offense, I would say that Karlsson, Lidstrom, Green, and Keith clearly have the case over him. Niedermayer, Pronger, Markov, Rafalski, Weber, Letang, and Subban have a case as well.

Regardless, he was coming off an injury and had management squabbles before getting traded (not to mention his age)...it wasn't seen as a steal at the time.

A lot of what made Boyle so valuable, unrelated to points, was his breakout and puck moving ability. If memory serves the Sharks did not have that element to their game before Campbell. There were few players in the league at that time who could do that at an elite level and Boyle was one of them.