2020-2021 Roster Thread

[Scoresberg]

Figured we'd get this underway with just over 3 weeks to go until the puck drops. All roster talk here.

As of now, we're sitting on +$12 mil of cap space with only Kunin to sign who's going to take what $2-3 mil? I hope Poile can add a top-6 forward into the mix whether by weaponizing the cap space or adding a top UFA.

The way this team is built, I still see it as a bubble team/contender. It's going to be a tough division to push through and we need a lot to right if we have a chance. To name a few of those things:

1) We need Joey to bounce back. I think he has a good chance of doing that if JOFA is re-united and his old coaches can light a fire under him.
2) We need Saros to solidify himself as a legit starter. We need the Saros we had from January to March, not the Saros we had against Arizona.
3) We need at least one of the young guys to really break through, Tomasino, Tolvanen or somebody.
4) We need growth from Fabbro. He was uneven last season, not top-4 material. We'd be in good shape if Fabbro could keep up with Josi and we could re-unite Ekholm and Ellis. That would be a sick top-4.
5) We need a big year from Kunin. He's going to get top-6 ice-time and I'm counting on him to deliver. We need some young blood in the lineup.

As of now, the opening night lineup looks something like this:

Forsberg - Johansen - Arvidsson
Tolvanen - Duchene - Kunin
Jarnkrok - Sissons - Grimaldi
Trenin - Richardson - Cousins

Josi - Ellis
Ekholm - Fabbro
Borowiecki - Benning

Saros
Rinne

That's certainly a lot different lineup than what we iced against Arizona. It's younger, it has less finesse but is more blue-collar and grittier. If we want to compete for a playoff spot, I think we need to add another top-6 forward.

Click to read more...

 

[Scoresberg]

Regarding Tomasino:

 

[BigFatCat999]

Tomassino is on the team in my mind. Preds need 2 forwards depth wise

EDIT: and Hoockey News agrees with me....10 NHL Rookies to Watch in 2021

 

[Scoresberg]

Tomassino is on the team in my mind. Preds need 2 forwards depth wise

From what I've seen from Tolvanen, I tend to agree with you. I'm much higher on Tomasino than Tolvanen.. but the organization seems keen on giving Tolvanen a shot. In a short season like this one, they have to figure out who's got what it takes rather sooner than later.

As for the expanded roster and taxi squads we're light on forwards as it is. We have 10 forwards signed, 11 when Kunin signs, 12 when Tolvanen is added, 13 when Tomasino comes back from the WJC. How are we going to fill up the rest of the spots, are we just going to empty Milwaukee? I don't think so, I have to believe Poile has something up his sleeve.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Figured we'd get this underway with just over 3 weeks to go until the puck drops. All roster talk here.

As of now, we're sitting on +$12 mil of cap space with only Kunin to sign who's going to take what $2-3 mil? I hope Poile can add a top-6 forward into the mix whether by weaponizing the cap space or adding a top UFA.

The way this team is built, I still see it as a bubble team/contender. It's going to be a tough division to push through and we need a lot to right if we have a chance. To name a few of those things:

1) We need Joey to bounce back. I think he has a good chance of doing that if JOFA is re-united and his old coaches can light a fire under him.
2) We need Saros to solidify himself as a legit starter. We need the Saros we had from January to March, not the Saros we had against Arizona.
3) We need at least one of the young guys to really break through, Tomasino, Tolvanen or somebody.
4) We need growth from Fabbro. He was uneven last season, not top-4 material. We'd be in good shape if Fabbro could keep up with Josi and we could re-unite Ekholm and Ellis. That would be a sick top-4.
5) We need a big year from Kunin. He's going to get top-6 ice-time and I'm counting on him to deliver. We need some young blood in the lineup.

As of now, the opening night lineup looks something like this:

Forsberg - Johansen - Arvidsson
Tolvanen - Duchene - Kunin
Jarnkrok - Sissons - Grimaldi
Trenin - Richardson - Cousins

Josi - Ellis
Ekholm - Fabbro
Borowiecki - Benning

Saros
Rinne

That's certainly a lot different lineup than what we iced against Arizona. It's younger, it has less finesse but is more blue-collar and grittier. If we want to compete for a playoff spot, I think we need to add another top-6 forward.

I don't think we need to play any hijinx with the roster size for cap reasons. So in that sense, we might as well just always list the max # of players. 23-man full roster at all times, plus the full 6 players on the Taxi Squad.

Forsberg - Johansen - Arvidsson
? - Duchene - Kunin
Grimaldi - Sissons - Trenin
Jarnkrok - Richardson - Cousins
?

Josi - Ellis
Ekholm - Fabbro
Borocop - Benning
Tinordi - Carrier

Saros
Rinne

The top "?" position could be Tolvanen, but he doesn't seem spectacular as a 2nd line wing in the KHL, so the NHL might still be too much of a jump for him. It could be Tomasino, but he will start out at the WJC instead. It could be a UFA we sign. It could be Jarnkrok.

The 13th forward then should just be somebody we pick up from the Taxi Squad group. I guess there is no real value to paying an NHL salary for a waiver-exempt player, though. So maybe there are financial reasons to consider how to use that designation. But I think we have enough players that I'd like us to maximize our roster size and use a full roster and full taxi squad rather than try to save those $$$. It's not my money, though.

With a fairly bulky list of remaining UFAs, though, I would not mind if the Preds also signed a 13th forward with an NHL pedigree. Those guys are desperate for a job and would be cheap. You don't know how the injury attrition will stack up and what you'll ultimately end up needing this season. Best to load up now than run into trouble later. I would be all for going with a scheme that involves signing a tough 13th forward like Matt Martin, or somebody who might be a project like Athanasiou.

 

[Scoresberg]

With a fairly bulky list of remaining UFAs, though, I would not mind if the Preds also signed a 13th forward with an NHL pedigree. Those guys are desperate for a job and would be cheap. You don't know how the injury attrition will stack up and what you'll ultimately end up needing this season. Best to load up now than run into trouble later. I would be all for going with a scheme that involves signing a tough 13th forward like Matt Martin, or somebody who might be a project like Athanasiou.

This. People do not seem to realize how compressed the next season will be and reliable depth will be crucial to have. On top of that, if we start off well and things are looking up by the trade deadline, you just know Poile will make a bad, desperate trade to try to upgrade the roster and doing the upgrading now saves a lot of assets. Trades for guys like Killorn are supercheap right now and the UFA signings never cost an asset.

I'd just rather make some moves now, if we're going to make any at all. To me, sitting on +$10 mil on cap space heading into next season is basically saying we're not competing this year, which makes all this discussion moot anyway.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

This. People do not seem to realize how compressed the next season will be and reliable depth will be crucial to have. On top of that, if we start off well and things are looking up by the trade deadline, you just know Poile will make a bad, desperate trade to try to upgrade the roster and doing the upgrading now saves a lot of assets. Trades for guys like Killorn are supercheap right now and the UFA signings never cost an asset.

I'd just rather make some moves now, if we're going to make any at all. To me, sitting on +$10 mil on cap space heading into next season is basically saying we're not competing this year, which makes all this discussion moot anyway.

In our division, and considering we already went out and shored up the depth like we did with Richardson/Cousins and Borowiecki/Benning it seems a little hard to fathom to me that we'd just write off the season. Could have promoted prospects into some of those jobs if that was going to be the mindset.

If those two "?"s in my list above were Killorn-acquired-cheap and Martin for NHL-calibre-toughness, then I'd be pretty content.

Although I wonder if there is any exception for junior-aged players on the taxi squad? Given there is no junior season yet, could you even keep Tomasino on the taxi squad or does he require a full roster spot?

And then I guess I'd also have to be eyeing Farrance and how to factor him in later on. Maybe they are already aware of his general mindset wrt signing with us, but I would definitely want to keep in mind the hope of attaching him to the taxi squad at some point later on too.

 

[BigFatCat999]

I can see Tomassino spelling Tolvanen. Tommy gets a 6 game try out, then wait and see

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I can see Tomassino spelling Tolvanen. Tommy gets a 6 game try out, then wait and see

Have they even recalled Tolvanen yet? I might have missed that. But I would still be frankly just leaning towards letting Tolvanen play out the season in the KHL. I can't quite convince myself that he has shown a readiness for 2nd line NHL duty yet, and if that's not how we are going to deploy him, then I don't really see the point in having him back in a depth role or on the taxi squad. He might as well be playing that role in the KHL all year?

 

[Scoresberg]

Have they even recalled Tolvanen yet? I might have missed that. But I would still be frankly just leaning towards letting Tolvanen play out the season in the KHL. I can't quite convince myself that he has shown a readiness for 2nd line NHL duty yet, and if that's not how we are going to deploy him, then I don't really see the point in having him back in a depth role or on the taxi squad. He might as well be playing that role in the KHL all year?

I agree he could use a full year in the KHL but Tolvanen has been recalled and has already traveled back to NA. He's going to get a good look in the training camp. I guess if they can get the AHL season going, he could go there to play big minutes. I just don't think he's ready for a top-6 role in the NHL.

Also, I think the reasoning behind signing Boro & Benning was the expansion draft eligibility and the reasoning behind signing those forwards was to start establishing a different kind of culture inside the hockey club. Less skill, more sandpaper. I don't think those moves were made to necessarily try to compete this year.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Forsberg - Johansen - Arvidsson
Killorn - Duchene - Kunin
Grimaldi - Sissons - Trenin
Jarnkrok - Richardson - Cousins
Martin

Josi - Ellis
Ekholm - Fabbro
Borowiecki - Benning
Tinordi - Carrier

Saros
Rinne

TS F - Tomasino
TS F - Pitlick
TS F - McCarron
TS D - Allard
TS D - Davies
TS G = Ingram

... would look pretty good to me. I don't know how likely it really is that the AHL starts up. But assuming it doesn't, I'd go like that. My emphasis for the Taxi Squad would be a little more developmental I guess. I know we have lots of pretty good Milwauke-depth options in guys like Malone, Olivier, Richard, Harpur, Lewington, Kaskisuo, etc who will want action, even if the AHL isn't going, but who aren't in Florida. But I don't really see why there wouldn't at least be a taxi-taxi squad. It's not like these players are going to be sitting home eating TV dinners and playing Fortnite if there is no AHL. These guys are at the rink every day anyway. The Preds will presumably keep them skating in some fashion. But in terms of the "official" taxi squad, I'd load it more towards players I actually hope have a future with the team, if I could.

 

[Scoresberg]

Forsberg - Johansen - Arvidsson
Killorn - Duchene - Kunin
Grimaldi - Sissons - Trenin
Jarnkrok - Richardson - Cousins
Martin

Josi - Ellis
Ekholm - Fabbro
Borowiecki - Benning
Tinordi - Carrier

Saros
Rinne

TS F - Tomasino
TS F - Pitlick
TS F - McCarron
TS D - Allard
TS D - Davies
TS G = Ingram

... would look pretty good to me. I don't know how likely it really is that the AHL starts up. But assuming it doesn't, I'd go like that. My emphasis for the Taxi Squad would be a little more developmental I guess. I know we have lots of pretty good Milwauke-depth options in guys like Malone, Olivier, Richard, Harpur, Lewington, Kaskisuo, etc who will want action, even if the AHL isn't going, but who aren't in Florida. But I don't really see why there wouldn't at least be a taxi-taxi squad. It's not like these players are going to be sitting home eating TV dinners and playing Fortnite if there is no AHL. These guys are at the rink every day anyway. The Preds will presumably keep them skating in some fashion. But in terms of the "official" taxi squad, I'd load it more towards players I actually hope have a future with the team, if I could.

I guess a lot of the extra roster spots depends now on whether the AHL season gets played or not. For example, there's no way Ingram is on the taxi squad if the AHL gets underway. Would it be better for Tomasino's development to be on the taxi squad or go back to the OHL where he has essentially nothing more to gain?

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I guess a lot of the extra roster spots depends now on whether the AHL season gets played or not. For example, there's no way Ingram is on the taxi squad if the AHL gets underway. Would it be better for Tomasino's development to be on the taxi squad or go back to the OHL where he has essentially nothing more to gain?

Yeah, AHL and CHL plans are still big TBDs on this. I feel like for Tomasino it's still a little "TBD" even past that... I know we are getting inundated with glowing reports on his progress... but it's not wrong also for a 19-year old player to just go and have a dominant final year in junior and play in the Memorial Cup and really solidify all his credentials. There isn't quite "nothing more to gain" for a player in that situation. I don't think we should overlook the value of him going this route if it's still available... and the value it gives us in terms of an extra ELC season at the same time.

 

[King Weber]

From The Athletic:

The Stanley Cup Checklist is based on research done earlier this year looking at the average value for players at every position from the past 10 Cup champions. It’s based on the best-of-the-best each year, making it a high bar to clear and it means no team will have every box checked off, but the more holes a team has filled, the closer they are to being a Cup contender. A name in a specific box means he’s in the right ballpark for projected value compared to past Cup winners, with some on the lower end and some on the higher end. Using an age curve, we made note of what each team already has on their roster signed for each of the next three seasons.

according to this (if I'm reading it right) we'd need an Elite 1C, Elite 1st line winger, another 1st line winger, a top six forward and a top four D to be serious Stanley Cup contenders.

 

[herzausstein]

Assuming no moves:

Starting the season:

Forsberg Joey Arvidsson
Tolvanen Duchene Kunin
Jarnkrok Sissons Grimaldi
Cousins Richardson Trenin

Josi Ellis
Ekholm Fabbro
BoroCop Benning

Saros
Rinne

Extras:
Tinordi
McCarron
Carrier


If there's no AHL/OHL season:
Taxi:
Ingram
Tomasino
Pitlick
Harper
Allard

 

[Legionnaire11]

Assuming no moves:

Starting the season:

Forsberg Joey Arvidsson
Tolvanen Duchene Kunin
Jarnkrok Sissons Grimaldi
Cousins Richardson Trenin

Josi Ellis
Ekholm Fabbro
BoroCop Benning

Saros
Rinne

Extras:
Tinordi
McCarron
Carrier


If there's no AHL/OHL season:
Taxi:
Ingram
Tomasino
Pitlick
Harper
Allard

Replace Harper with Olivier and I'm good with it.

 

[herzausstein]

Replace Harper with Olivier and I'm good with it.

Olivier and McCarron kind of serve the same purpose that’s why I didn’t pick him. Didn’t see the need to carry both.

That being said if the OHL starts up and Tomasino isn’t playing in the NHL games then send Tomasino to the OHL and then we can bring in Olivier.

 

[Scoresberg]

I figured. Teams probably want to stabilize the situation before Christmas, and then there's only few days after Christmas when the first teams start their training camps. Have to think there might already be some deals done under the table that will be announced early this week.

 

[herzausstein]

I figured. Teams probably want to stabilize the situation before Christmas, and then there's only few days after Christmas when the first teams start their training camps. Have to think there might already be some deals done under the table that will be announced early this week.

I hope so. This offseason has driven me crazy. There's so much fun speculation because of the cap situation for multiple teams. I have to imagine there will be all sorts of movement shortly. I don't know if Nashville necessarily will make a move until camp starts and they get a look at Tolvanen/Pitlic/etc.

 

[jumb0]

I figured. Teams probably want to stabilize the situation before Christmas, and then there's only few days after Christmas when the first teams start their training camps. Have to think there might already be some deals done under the table that will be announced early this week.

LeBrun has an article in the Athletic saying the same thing. Expect there to be a mini-frenzy this week now that the league has officially announce a restart.

 

[Legionnaire11]

So about the Taxi Squad. Apparently you can change players by call up/send down from AHL. To come up from the AHL a player can't go straight to the NHL roster. The players first have to quarantine for seven days and have four negative tests.

 

[Armourboy]

That just seems kind of pointless. They should just travel with the team.

 

[Scoresberg]

You need to have some skilled guys on the taxi squad who have the potential to replace an injured player in the top-6, and you need to have physical guys with size who can play shutdown role. Same applies for defensemen.

On top of the starting lineup, let's assume you carry 8 skaters (3 on the 23-man roster + 5 on TS) and 1 goalie. I still think we're adding a forward who'd be added to this list:

Two of McCarron, Olivier and Jeannot.
Richard
Malone/Carcone
Carrier
Tinordi
Harpur/Lewington
Kaskisuo

You obviously want to have your top prospects playing down in the AHL, Pitlick, Allard, Davies, Harper and Ingram.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

You need to have some skilled guys on the taxi squad who have the potential to replace an injured player in the top-6, and you need to have physical guys with size who can play shutdown role. Same applies for defensemen.

On top of the starting lineup, let's assume you carry 8 skaters (3 on the 23-man roster + 5 on TS) and 1 goalie. I still think we're adding a forward who'd be added to this list:

Two of McCarron, Olivier and Jeannot.
Richard
Malone/Carcone
Carrier
Tinordi
Harpur/Lewington
Kaskisuo

You obviously want to have your top prospects playing down in the AHL, Pitlick, Allard, Davies, Harper and Ingram.

It sounds like they will at least start the season with no AHL. If there is currently a suggested Feb. 5 start date for the AHL, well... let's see if that actually happens. Until then, the Taxi Squad should have a more developmental look to it. Then you could morph that into a more veteran taxi squad later if the AHL does start and you want your prospects to start playing games. But out of the gate, the top prospects like Pitlick, Allard, Davies, and Ingram should all be on the Taxi squad ahead of the veterans.

 

[Legionnaire11]

That just seems kind of pointless. They should just travel with the team.

The taxi squad does travel with the team. This is only if you want to change members of the taxi squad.