WJC: 2019 WJC U20 D1A in Füssen, Germany (9/12 - 15/12 2018)

su24

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The results might be a bit extreme, but Belarus finally rightfully is ahead us in youth department knowing how much resources have been put into system in last two decades. They have plenty interesting prospects in every birth year now going forward.
I think Latvia has to take a rout Belarus already took when they left MHL. Your kids traveling all around that huge country for months and don't learn how to play hockey. They just get tiered and depressed. Even Russians don't keep their best prospects in the MHL after they're 18: all the kids drafted last year from the MHL are either in the VHL or with their big clubs. Your kids don't learn anything in that league. The MHL generation in Belarus has been lost for those reasons as well.

Now their best U20 kids are playing at home against men in Extraleague-1, their U18 team is playing in Extraleague-2 also against men and U17 team is playing in Extraleague-3 against older guys. That's how they grow up. Looking at that a lot of 2002 guys just came back home to Belarus from Russia to develop further, even though the guys like Yegor Chezganov at eliteprospects.com and Valentin Demchenko at eliteprospects.com where promised a spot on the Russian U17 team.

Belarus u18 team with Demchenko just destroyed Germany, Denmark and Slovakia by combined score of 14:4, and Belarus u17 with Chezganov demolished Latvia and Kazakhstan by combined score of 14:3. They were dominating those teams, which never happened when Belarus participated in the MHL.
 
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su24

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:laugh: Evidently having an HF thread makes you a serious prospect now.

Falkovsky has an 83 post thread, and then multiple other prospect threads and transaction threads full of praise. That didn't make him a meaningful prospect. Protas has one 6 reply thread and one person replied half of those replies, one was a comment about his name. Does that make him an even less meaningful prospect? I think clearly HFboards threads aren't a meaningful measure... Those four athletes including Falkovsky, were drafted, and there is no guarantee the two you just mentioned will be drafted.

But you're still missing the fundamental point. Of all the kids who are drafted, it's likely none of them will play a large amount of time in the NHL, if at all. So it's important to build a strong European contingent, because you're not going to have a sizable NHL contingent. You simply aren't. And if there isn't a system in place to develop prospects like the players I mentioned, doesn't matter what these kids look like at 17.

There is more talent, least in part because there's more traffic to NA. But if these prospects come home and there's no room for them in Minsk, they could be even more talented and Baltic Warrior would still be right.
HFboars threads mean that people who watch them play want to talk about them. And it doesn't matter how many replies a thread has -- their opinion is as much important for me as yours. But you were saying that Belarusian hockey is going down for years and there's no future for them. I'm surprised they didn't listen to you and developed some decent prospects. Off course you don't have to pay attention to them, they don't have their reincarnation of the Puljujarvi-Aho-Laine line like you have in greatest Austria :laugh:
 

kabidjan18

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I think Latvia has to take a rout Belarus already took when they left MHL. Your kids traveling all around that huge country for months and don't learn how to play hockey. They just get tiered and depressed. Even Russians don't keep their best prospects in the MHL after they're 18: all the kids drafted last year from the MHL are either in the VHL or with their big clubs. Your kids don't learn anything in that league. The MHL generation in Belarus has been lost for those reasons as well.

Now their best U20 kids are playing at home against men in Extraleague-1, their U18 team is playing in Extraleague-2 also against men and U17 team is playing in Extraleague-3 against older guys. That's how they grow up. Looking at that a lot of 2002 guys just came back home to Belarus from Russia to develop further, even though the guys like Yegor Chezganov at eliteprospects.com and Valentin Demchenko at eliteprospects.com where promised a spot on the Russian U17 team.

Belarus u18 team with Demchenko just destroyed Germany, Denmark and Slovakia by combined score of 14:4, and Belarus u17 with Chezganov demolished Latvia and Kazakhstan by combined score of 14:3. They were dominating those teams, which never happened when Belarus participated in the MHL.

HFboars threads mean that people who watch them play want to talk about them. And it doesn't matter how many replies a thread has -- their opinion is as much important for me as yours. But you were saying that Belarusian hockey is going down for years and there's no future for them. I'm surprised they didn't listen to you and developed some decent prospects. Off course you don't have to pay attention to them, they don't have their reincarnation of the Puljujarvi-Aho-Laine line like you have in greatest Austria :laugh:
Most HFboards people like yourself don't watch those prospects, like yourself evidently. Furthermore, I only commented I believe once in the Falkovsky thread to express skepticism, you seem extremely confused and incoherent. The people praising him were the "their" by your designation.

Decent prospects like who? You're down in the D1A division, and you're ridiculously trying to give advice to the Latvians on how to run their club. What "decent prospects"? Do you have a Rudolfs Balcers? A Rodrigo Abols? A Teodors Bluegers? An Elvis Merzlikins? Who is your Miks Indrasis? Please, no, go ahead. Who was the last Belorussian to put up 40 points in a KHL season? Geoff Platt? Indrasis still happens to be in his prime, by the way, unlike your aging former stars who will be in their mid-30s when Belarus is able to get back to the Elite WC. Where is this ridiculous pride coming from? Latvia made the quartefinal lasts year in the WC. You got your behinds handed to you 4-0 by Austria. 4-0 to Austria. And you're talking smack to Latvians about what they need to do right? Because you won some U17 friendly matches? They've got players killing it all over Europe, Edgars Kulda, Roberts Bukarts, Ralfs Freibergs, and more. Dinamo Riga is killing Dinamo Minsk in the KHL. Your "National Team" is chock full of aging Canadians who often don't even feel like showing up, and Stepanov. Why the hell are you here lecturing Latvians about how to run their junior program? Because an agent hooked up a couple Belorussian kids to some CHL GMs? Wow, that's so impressive. No other country could possibly produce a few kids who could do decently in junior leagues. I think Latvia should just forfeit their games against Belarus.

But you're not the first. We've seen new, starry-eyed Belorussian guys come around almost yearly, and over time they all grow cynical and realistic. In a way, we were all young once, and optimistic. You're right, doesn't matter what I say. In time, Belarus' aging stars will pass on the torch to athletes a shadow of their former past. And it won't matter then what you say or what I say any more than it does now.

And by the way, that article has gotten a couple thousand hits over the years. My page took off after that clickbait title. So do I regret having a clickbait title? Not in the least bit. Best business decision I ever made for my site.
 

su24

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Most HFboards people like yourself don't watch those prospects, like yourself evidently. Furthermore, I only commented I believe once in the Falkovsky thread to express skepticism, you seem extremely confused and incoherent. The people praising him were the "their" by your designation.

Decent prospects like who? You're down in the D1A division, and you're ridiculously trying to give advice to the Latvians on how to run their club. What "decent prospects"? Do you have a Rudolfs Balcers? A Rodrigo Abols? A Teodors Bluegers? An Elvis Merzlikins? Who is your Miks Indrasis? Please, no, go ahead. Who was the last Belorussian to put up 40 points in a KHL season? Geoff Platt? Indrasis still happens to be in his prime, by the way, unlike your aging former stars who will be in their mid-30s when Belarus is able to get back to the Elite WC. Where is this ridiculous pride coming from? Latvia made the quartefinal lasts year in the WC. You got your behinds handed to you 4-0 by Austria. 4-0 to Austria. And you're talking smack to Latvians about what they need to do right? Because you won some U17 friendly matches? They've got players killing it all over Europe, Edgars Kulda, Roberts Bukarts, Ralfs Freibergs, and more. Dinamo Riga is killing Dinamo Minsk in the KHL. Your "National Team" is chock full of aging Canadians who often don't even feel like showing up, and Stepanov. Why the hell are you here lecturing Latvians about how to run their junior program? Because an agent hooked up a couple Belorussian kids to some CHL GMs? Wow, that's so impressive. No other country could possibly produce a few kids who could do decently in junior leagues. I think Latvia should just forfeit their games against Belarus.

But you're not the first. We've seen new, starry-eyed Belorussian guys come around almost yearly, and over time they all grow cynical and realistic. In a way, we were all young once, and optimistic. You're right, doesn't matter what I say. In time, Belarus' aging stars will pass on the torch to athletes a shadow of their former past. And it won't matter then what you say or what I say any more than it does now.

And by the way, that article has gotten a couple thousand hits over the years. My page took off after that clickbait title. So do I regret having a clickbait title? Not in the least bit. Best business decision I ever made for my site.

[Mod]
Latvian kids are losing 1:8 right about now. They don't have any drafted players for 3 years now, they don't have anyone in the CHL (damn, even Ukraine has 2 players there), their U20 team is closer to relegation further down than to promotion. But everything is good, they don't have any problems and no one can have opinion... Ok, I regret that I've quoted him once. Not any more.
 
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kabidjan18

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[Mod]
Latvian kids are losing 1:8 right about now. They don't have any drafted players for 3 years now, they don't have anyone in the CHL (damn, even Ukraine has 2 players there), their U20 team is closer to relegation further down than to promotion. But everything is good, they don't have any problems and no one can have opinion... Ok, I regret that I've quoted him once. Not any more.
Senior national teams are the end game of junior hockey. Everyone knows that. The end goal of a U17 team isn't to win the D1A division of a U20 tournament. You can go ask either the Latvian or Belorussian federation right now what their goal with having junior national programs is. We're in the International Tournaments section, in the U20 WJC thread, and all you want to talk about are the implications of an arbitrary U17 match...as though the purpose of the U20 WJC was to prelude the all important fictitious U17 tournament.

No one with any familiarity to junior hockey takes friendly matches, much less U17 friendly matches, seriously as a sign of the overall direction of a hockey program, that you even mention it is hilarious. Swedes then should be saying "Swedish hockey is about to die" after last week's U20 friendlies against Russia and Finland. At best sane people use friendlies to evaluate prospects for that year's tournament. How you could even quote that as evidence of Belarus' burgeoning program is laughable.

You also don't seem to comprehend the fact that mid-major junior hockey goes in waves or spurts. Latvia had a wave from 94-97. That's where all the talent I mentioned came from, and guess what, they're going to be around for a long time. They are the future of Latvian hockey. As long as Sushko or Yeryomenko or Sharangovich's careers are around, so will Bluegers, Abols, and Balcers be, and the latter are better than the former. So the fact that Belarus appears to be on a wave at least with regards to kids under a certain age, doesn't really bother anyone. Quite literally two years ago, the exact opposite seemed to be true.

You keep trying to link a few players having reached the CHL to necessary future success. No one believes that. Getting drafted in the CHL draft doesn't make you into a future professional star. Sure, there could be a statistical correlation, because you're introducing a selection factor. But one thing does not cause the other. If these athletes currently in junior hockey don't have a club in which they can make the transfer to top tier senior hockey, nobody cares if you peaked young. That's the thrust behind the argument concerning the problems with Belorussian hockey, a lack of a platform to transition into tier 1 senior hockey. In all likelihood, most of these "prospects" you discuss will either not get drafted, or get assigned to the AHL, loaned out to ECHL teams, and be mediocre AHL players or fringe ECHL/AHL players until they go back to the KHL where they will have to fight with waves of legios. Maybe one makes it. Big deal, it's one player. The goal of a federation is to raise up an entire player pool, which requires the development of dozens players over each position into top tier worthy professionals.

I think perhaps your confusion comes from the fact that you aren't aware of the bottleneck facing Belorussian prospects to get proper playing time in tier 1 leagues. I could see why you'd think good juniors -> good pros, future must be good, but that's true if and only if these kids can find a good pro league when the return to Belarus, and if you just started surfing the web last week you wouldn't know how hard that is... If you want to poke at me with childish jabs, go ahead.
 
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Pan

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Most HFboards people like yourself don't watch those prospects, like yourself evidently. Furthermore, I only commented I believe once in the Falkovsky thread to express skepticism, you seem extremely confused and incoherent. The people praising him were the "their" by your designation.

Decent prospects like who? You're down in the D1A division, and you're ridiculously trying to give advice to the Latvians on how to run their club. What "decent prospects"? Do you have a Rudolfs Balcers? A Rodrigo Abols? A Teodors Bluegers? An Elvis Merzlikins? Who is your Miks Indrasis? Please, no, go ahead. Who was the last Belorussian to put up 40 points in a KHL season? Geoff Platt? Indrasis still happens to be in his prime, by the way, unlike your aging former stars who will be in their mid-30s when Belarus is able to get back to the Elite WC. Where is this ridiculous pride coming from? Latvia made the quartefinal lasts year in the WC. You got your behinds handed to you 4-0 by Austria. 4-0 to Austria. And you're talking smack to Latvians about what they need to do right? Because you won some U17 friendly matches? They've got players killing it all over Europe, Edgars Kulda, Roberts Bukarts, Ralfs Freibergs, and more. Dinamo Riga is killing Dinamo Minsk in the KHL. Your "National Team" is chock full of aging Canadians who often don't even feel like showing up, and Stepanov. Why the hell are you here lecturing Latvians about how to run their junior program? Because an agent hooked up a couple Belorussian kids to some CHL GMs? Wow, that's so impressive. No other country could possibly produce a few kids who could do decently in junior leagues. I think Latvia should just forfeit their games against Belarus.

But you're not the first. We've seen new, starry-eyed Belorussian guys come around almost yearly, and over time they all grow cynical and realistic. In a way, we were all young once, and optimistic. You're right, doesn't matter what I say. In time, Belarus' aging stars will pass on the torch to athletes a shadow of their former past. And it won't matter then what you say or what I say any more than it does now.

And by the way, that article has gotten a couple thousand hits over the years. My page took off after that clickbait title. So do I regret having a clickbait title? Not in the least bit. Best business decision I ever made for my site.
Sorry to say that, but it's you who is incoherent. You started with Belarus having difficulties with transitioning from junior to senior hockey, and finished with 4-0 to Austria. In fact we have 4-0 (or was it 5-0?) to Austria now because we had "4-0 to Austria" back when them players were juniors, and it has nothing to do with transitioning from juniors to seniors. They were losing to Austria, Slovenia, were outscored (!) by Italy. In fact the core of the present NT was playing in the third Worlds division back in juniors. That just was the level of our junior players and they succesfully became players exactly of that level which they were supposed to become. The problem was about minor hockey, not junior. I don't want to say we are now safe from having problems with transitioning but at least the main problem is finally seems to be solved. Earlier we didn't have a chance to even start experiencing problems you described because we were failing before that.
Talking about Latvia, could you or anyone please explain me what their junior program is? I'm not being sarcastic, I just don't have enough information how they work with players of U18, U20 and say U23 age getting them to a pro level. At the moment it seems to me they just send them to Europe or NA which doesn't look like "a program". I would appreciate some guidance.
 
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kabidjan18

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Let's focus on the facts.
You started with Belarus having difficulties with transitioning from junior to senior hockey, and finished with 4-0 to Austria. In fact we have 4-0 (or was it 5-0?) to Austria now because we had "4-0 to Austria" back when them players were juniors, and it has nothing to do with transitioning from juniors to seniors.
When did we beat you? These were our key players in that game. Komarek's last U20 season was in 2012. We finished 5th in D1A, you finished second. You beat us 6-2. The next year was Rauchenwald's last season at the U20 level. We again finished 5th, you again finished 2nd. You beat us 2-0. Layne Viveiros didn't play his U20 season in the WJC, he played in his U19 season when we finished 4rd, you finished 3nd, you beat us 4-1. Dominic Zwerger played in the 2016 WJC when we got 2nd to Latvia. You were in the Elite WJC that year so we didn't play. In Michael Raffl's U20 year we both finished 2nd in each of our groups, and since we were in different groups we didn't play. Raffl played too in his U19 year at the WJC, but that year we also didn't play because Belarus was at the Top WJC. In the 2015 WJC you won every game, including beating us, and were promoted to the Top Division. We were promoted one time in the last 15 years, and that year we didn't face you because we were in different divisions so we couldn't have beaten you. In the same period, you were promoted to top division four times, and in the 7 year period between 2007-2015 you won a medal in the D1A every single year. The last time you were in the third division was 1996-97, which is around the time some of the players on your National Team were born. Every time you faced us, you not only beat us but beat us decisively.

At the U18 level, you went to the D1B level once in the 20 year timespan of the modern tournament. You played in the Top U18 WJC 9 times. We played at thee D1B level 7 times in the 20 year timespan, and have never made the top WJC. Though we rarely met, you beat us basically every time we did meet including the time we met in D1B where you beat us 5-1 and got promoted back to D1A. We did beat you all once, in 2016, when we got relegated and you got promoted, the worst team beat the first team by one goal IIRC correctly it was like the miracle on ice. I don't think any players from that game were present at the WC game last year because it was 98s. That was the first year we got to see Yeryomenko and Sushko, and someone maybe you said "these guys are going to be good", and you or he was right. We faced on two times from 04-09 in the U18 level, I believe you won both and were promoted both times.

They were losing to Austria, Slovenia, were outscored (!) by Italy. In fact the core of the present NT was playing in the third Worlds division back in juniors. That just was the level of our junior players and they succesfully became players exactly of that level which they were supposed to become. The problem was about minor hockey, not junior. I don't want to say we are now safe from having problems with transitioning but at least the main problem is finally seems to be solved. Earlier we didn't have a chance to even start experiencing problems you described because we were failing before that.
You're an honest guy, I don't think you're trying to tell a falsehood. Perhaps you remembered it incorrectly. But you only played in the third division once, and it was U18, and you destroyed every team in that tournament including us. In 2011, you were relegated because they changed the format to the current format, but because of the existing format you never actually played Italy, or played any of the teams that Italy played. I think this is what you're referring to. But while it's not meant to be misleading I'm sure, it's clearly a dishonest characterization. You were dominant forces at both the U20 and the U18 level for the past two decades, with only one year as an exception and only at the U18, and you say the "core of the present NT" was there but only Gavrus and Lisovets, both playing as underagers, were there. So not really at all the core of your present NT.

I'm sorry that you have bad memories of these times, but they were not as you remember them to be. The records are clear, the facts are indisputable, you all beat us almost every time we played over the last 15 years at the junior level, and those were only the times when we did play because you were always at the higher divisions than we were. There hasn't been a 4-0 Austria win, at least that I could find, or at least not until this year ;)

So if Latvia and Belarus had similar amounts of junior success over the past 15 years, and Austria had much less, why is Latvia making the Quarterfinals and taking teams like Canada and Sweden to the wire, and Belarus can't even do the easy work of beating a small program like Austria with a perennially poor junior program?

Source: IIHF Website Archives, Elite Prospects

Talking about Latvia, could you or anyone please explain me what their junior program is? I'm not being sarcastic, I just don't have enough information how they work with players of U18, U20 and say U23 age getting them to a pro level. At the moment it seems to me they just send them to Europe or NA which doesn't look like "a program". I would appreciate some guidance.
They develop some talent too through the in-house MHL/KHL system which su24 was saying they should scrap because clearly Belarus has passed Latvia.
 

ozo

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I think Latvia has to take a rout Belarus already took when they left MHL. Your kids traveling all around that huge country for months and don't learn how to play hockey. They just get tiered and depressed. Even Russians don't keep their best prospects in the MHL after they're 18: all the kids drafted last year from the MHL are either in the VHL or with their big clubs. Your kids don't learn anything in that league. The MHL generation in Belarus has been lost for those reasons as well.

Now their best U20 kids are playing at home against men in Extraleague-1, their U18 team is playing in Extraleague-2 also against men and U17 team is playing in Extraleague-3 against older guys. That's how they grow up. Looking at that a lot of 2002 guys just came back home to Belarus from Russia to develop further, even though the guys like Yegor Chezganov at eliteprospects.com and Valentin Demchenko at eliteprospects.com where promised a spot on the Russian U17 team.

Belarus u18 team with Demchenko just destroyed Germany, Denmark and Slovakia by combined score of 14:4, and Belarus u17 with Chezganov demolished Latvia and Kazakhstan by combined score of 14:3. They were dominating those teams, which never happened when Belarus participated in the MHL.

My two cents, MHL is not some kind of God's gift on Earth, but it hardly is the reason why we suck right now. HK Riga is not taking some amazing prospects and turning them into duds, though I share the sentiment that MHL is too big for its own good geographically and that travel time could be spent way better. Look no further than Kazakhstan and Snezhny Barsy to see that success of youth national teams comes from expanding grassroots foot print just like you guys in Belarus have done. 10 years ago you have never had prospects from Zhlobin, Soligorsk and such places to increase competativity on kids level. Latvian kids hockey has not really grown for long time and that somewhat is our problem right now.
 

Pan

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When did we beat you?

I said "4-0 to Austria" generally, meaning that we were the same level back then as juniors as we are today as seniors.
Here is some examples:
http://stats.iihf.com/Hydra/341/IHM341906_74_3_0.pdf
http://stats.iihf.com/Hydra/246/IHM246904_74_8_0.pdf
http://stats.iihf.com/Hydra/246/IHM246903_74_3_0.pdf

At the U18 level, you went to the D1B level once in the 20 year timespan of the modern tournament.
It wasn't like we were a top division team, then we just fell to the 20th place once and then we're back to top again next season, right? We were a D1A or D1B level team for bunch of seasons and that's what those players are today, a D1A team. Yeah, probably 0-4 to Austria wasn't fair enough but generally no surprises we finally got relegated.
Now, I guess having our u18 teams playing at top division three years in a row we can expect some rise in seniors in 5 or 7 years, can't we?
 
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Maverick41

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BTW... (rumor has it) the German Camp Roster was released internally yesterday. Peterka and Stutzle are both a go.

Too bad we will miss Seider and probably Schütz because of injuries.
I hope Växjö will release Bokk for the tournament otherwise that would be 3 of our 4 or 5 best players unavailable.
 

kabidjan18

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I said "4-0 to Austria" generally, meaning that we were the same level back then as juniors as we are today as seniors.
Here is some examples:
http://stats.iihf.com/Hydra/341/IHM341906_74_3_0.pdf
http://stats.iihf.com/Hydra/246/IHM246904_74_8_0.pdf
http://stats.iihf.com/Hydra/246/IHM246903_74_3_0.pdf

It wasn't like we were a top division team, then we just fell to the 20th place once and then we're back to top again next season, right? We were a D1A or D1B level team for bunch of seasons and that's what those players are today, a D1A team. Yeah, probably 0-4 to Austria wasn't fair enough but generally no surprises we finally got relegated.
Now, I guess having our u18 teams playing at top division three years in a row we can expect some rise in seniors in 5 or 7 years, can't we?
First of all, the WJC-18 pales in comparison to the WJC-20 as a proximate estimate of strength because the rosters are more representative future teams because the competition is closer. So even speaking of the WJC-18 isn't making a particularly strong argument. Even insofar as we speak of the WJC-18, as I mentioned prior, you were there 9 years out of the 20, 7 coming prior to this recent ascent. Those were the days of Stefanovich, Revenko, Korobov, Gavrus, Lopachuk, etc. You seem really caught up in the fact that one, single year, you got relegated to D1B, and only at the U18 level. Being relegated to D1B at the U18 level for one single year in 2011 is not what took the program down. Only sustained excellence or sustained success can improve or weaken a program, and Belarus' sustained success over that period of time was greater than Austria, greater than France, greater even than other countries like Norway (who you beat in 2017 but finished ranked under). By the logic of unrestricted junior translation, Belarus should be ahead of each of those programs.

Secondly, you're a bit confused. The WC top division is 16 teams. The WJC and WJC-18 top division are 10 teams. They don't have the same number of teams. The D1A division of each are 6 teams. So to be a "D1A junior team" is to be a Top WC Senior team. To be a D1B Junior team is to be a D1A Senior team. If you actually look at the teams playing in the WC D1A, their junior teams are in fact usually D1B, sometimes D2A teams. The translation from junior to senior divisions is a false equivalency.

Finally, to your final question again, not necessarily. Look at the team which beat both of us, France. France beat us by a lot, beat Belarus 6-2. They also beat Belarus in 2017, so their victory was not a fluke, like you might argue Austria's was. Let's construct France's lineup from the 6-2 game. From the 2010-2011 season until the 2015-16 season France played 5 of their 6 WJCs in the D1B division. The one year they made it up to D1A, Belarus beat them senseless 9-3. Many of their core players came from this time frame, Jordan Perret, Anthony Rech, Valentin Claireaux, Guillame Leclerc, Florian Chakiachvili. This should make them a D1B team. A year before their descent, the 2008-09 WJC, they played Belarus. This team had the current stars of the team. The guys who really beat up Belarus last year, Stephane Da Costa, Yohann Auvitu, Antoine Roussel (not there last year), Loic Lamperier. Belarus beat that French team. Beat them on the backs of Sergei Drozd and Igor Revenko. Fast forward to the 2016-17 WJC D1A in Bremerhaven. France had one of their current rising stars, Alexandre Texier, and two of their Senior blueliners, Thomas Thiry and Hugo Gallet. Again, Belarus won that game. Their key players were Ruslan Valischuk and Andrei Belevich. For 10 years, Belarus was ahead of France at the World Juniors, and it is still true today.

If juniors translated in any way directly to senior hockey, not only would Belarus have manhandled Austria, they would have destroyed France, easily. At every stage from the French U20 players who are now 29 like Da Costa to the French players who are now 19 like Texier, Belarus either beat them or were divisions above them. France's juniors did even worse than Austria's. France should be a D1A senior team. Not only are they not, but they're a strong Top Division team. They finished above both Norway and Belarus in 2017, and they finished above Austria and Belarus in 2018. Translation to Senior matters.

With the benefit of hindsight it's easy to say that we can say Drozd, Revenko, Lopachuk, Ambrozheichik, Karaban, Gavrus, the list goes on, were not going to be good players. But if I asked you in 2013 after you just finished beating France senseless at the WJC, or in 2016 when you were in the top division of the WJC and France was the D1B WJC, or any of the years in between where you finished top 3 every year in the D1A and France was consistently in the D1B, you would not have told me that Belarus was going to be unable to beat France 4-5 years later in the WC, and would be relegated by Austria to the D1A. Certainly there is some correlation between junior success and senior success, but if the players don't translate well to senior hockey you may not even make gains enough to catch Austria, much less a stronger team like Latvia, whose recent golden generation 94-97 will likely be around at least until 2026-27. And to do that, there need to be more playing opportunities in Dinamo Minsk for young players.
 

Maverick41

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Wow. Hope he gets well, and hope Bokk is released. Would love to beat y'all but not that way.

We also have a top defenseman who might be down for the count, but he's not Moritz Seider.

I am still bummed that my work schedule won't allow me to be in Füssen for the game against you guys. I was hoping to get the chance to see Rossi play live. Guess I will have to hope for a decent stream.
 

su24

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My two cents, MHL is not some kind of God's gift on Earth, but it hardly is the reason why we suck right now. HK Riga is not taking some amazing prospects and turning them into duds, though I share the sentiment that MHL is too big for its own good geographically and that travel time could be spent way better. Look no further than Kazakhstan and Snezhny Barsy to see that success of youth national teams comes from expanding grassroots foot print just like you guys in Belarus have done. 10 years ago you have never had prospects from Zhlobin, Soligorsk and such places to increase competativity on kids level. Latvian kids hockey has not really grown for long time and that somewhat is our problem right now.
I don't think Kazakhstan is a good example of upcoming success. Any U20 or U18 team can get lucky and move up to to the top division for a year. Belarus did it a few times over the last 10 years just to get smashed by the top teams. Kazakhs also don't have any players in the CHL, they have not been drafted to the NHL for 15 years now. Hey, Latvia was 2nd at that tournament and with some luck could be in the top division instead of Kazakhs. But you're right about "expanding grassroots", 20 years ago Belarus had like 3 ice rinks in the whole country, now they've built them everywhere and kids are coming from all over the country.
But speaking of MHL. Your Austrian friend just listed the best Latvian young players (Rudolfs Balcers, Rodrigo Abols, Teodors Bluegers, Elvis Merzlikins and Miks Indrasis) and said that you "develop some talent through the in-house MHL/KHL system". I wouldn't touch his view that he praises AHL players like a superstars, but let's look at the facts:
Rudolfs Balcers -- grew up in Norway,then CHL/AHL.
Teodors Bluegers -- NCAA, AHL
Elvis Merzlikins -- all his career he spent in Switzerland.
Rodrigo Abols -- the only one who spent some time in the MHL, but then he moved to the OHL to take next step. That "superstar" as a 20 years old player was scoring in the WHL at a lower pace than some Belarusians are scoring right now at 17.
The most funny name on his list is actually Inrasis, who grew up as a player... in Belarusian leagues where he played in 2008-2012 for Riga-2000 and Metalurgs Liepaja :)))
So among your best young players only one has spent some time in the MHL. In fact Latvia hasn't developed any decent talent through the MHL/KHL system. Maybe that system doesn't hurt Latvian hockey, but it doesn't help to develop new great players for sure.
 
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kabidjan18

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[Mod]
I wouldn't touch his view that he praises AHL players like a superstars
Because it's better to praise CHLers like superstars. Lol. Let's just pretend they weren't massive players in the recent WC.

That "superstar" as a 20 years old player was scoring in the WHL at a lower pace than some Belarusians are scoring right now at 17.
[MOD] Scoring is highly circumstantial, points tell a part of the story but talk to any agent or coach, they don't tell nearly the whole story.

But more importantly. Player development is neither linear nor uniform. That means that players aren't guaranteed to develop at the same rates, and they are guaranteed to develop consistently either. Again, part of not knowing is that we've been discussing these players for years.

Our Latvian Expert Namejs said about 6 months back that Bluegers and Abols had become so and so good. I didn't believe him because the last time I saw them was a while back, so I called him out for exaggerating. He fired back. He was absolutely right. They were beastly in the WC. Two-way players, you could put them on any line and they could shut down anyone. Offensively they could really keep possession and generate chances. Players improve at different rates, these players took strides transitioning to the Senior level that made them potent seniors.

Then, me and Namejs got into a debate prior to the start of this season about Abols, I said he'd score a PPG of something like .4 or less in the SHL this year, Namejs was pretty confident he'd be over .5. Right now, he's completely right. We on this forum have been discussing these exact prospects for years now. You know nothing about them, you just googled them ten minutes ago. These players have made huge developmental strides and become strong assets.

You think every kid who scores decently in the CHL in their U18 season becomes some star? Mops up the AHL easy? [MOD] Perhaps some of the will, for sure some of them won't. Nothing is guaranteed in this business.

So among your best young players only one has spent some time in the MHL. In fact Latvia hasn't developed any decent talent through the MHL/KHL system. Maybe that system doesn't hurt Latvian hockey, but it doesn't help to develop new great players for sure.
This is a pretty clear strawman. Me and Baltic Warrior's argument was clearly that Belarus shouldn't be the one talking, not that Latvia's system was perfect. It's like a blind man trying to lead a near-sighted man.[/QUOTE]
 
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kabidjan18

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I am still bummed that my work schedule won't allow me to be in Füssen for the game against you guys. I was hoping to get the chance to see Rossi play live. Guess I will have to hope for a decent stream.
Our roster was just released internally. We're missing some big players. I think you'll still beat us. I don't have any confidence in this roster. I will still cheer my heart out for them but, I know these players.
 

ozo

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I don't think Kazakhstan is a good example of upcoming success. Any U20 or U18 team can get lucky and move up to to the top division for a year. Belarus did it a few times over the last 10 years just to get smashed by the top teams. Kazakhs also don't have any players in the CHL, they have not been drafted to the NHL for 15 years now. Hey, Latvia was 2nd at that tournament and with some luck could be in the top division instead of Kazakhs. But you're right about "expanding grassroots", 20 years ago Belarus had like 3 ice rinks in the whole country, now they've built them everywhere and kids are coming from all over the country.

Never said, they are amazing or anything, but Kazakhstan very recently was a team that couldn't string victories together to get out of 1B level. What I am trying to say is that MHL doesn't really affect hockey in non-Russian countries in any meaningful measurable way.
 

su24

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NHL Central Scouting Players to Watch

4 Belarusians are on the "NHL Central Scouting Players to Watch" list: Kolyachonok, Alistrov, Protas and Usov. Kolyachenok's rating was upgraded to "A" which makes him a top-25 prospect in the world (only 24 other players got "A" as well). The 5th player on the list who was born in Belarus is Daniil Misyul, but he already played for Russia at the U18 WJC (his older brother played for Belarus).
2 Germans are on the list as well: Moritz Seider is rated "A" as expected and Nikita Alexandrov got "B" (he's never played for Germany though).
No Latvians or Austrians were discovered.
 

kabidjan18

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NHL Central Scouting Players to Watch

4 Belarusians are on the "NHL Central Scouting Players to Watch" list: Kolyachonok, Alistrov, Protas and Usov. Kolyachenok's rating was upgraded to "A" which makes him a top-25 prospect in the world (only 24 other players got "A" as well). The 5th player on the list who was born in Belarus is Daniil Misyul, but he already played for Russia at the U18 WJC (his older brother played for Belarus).
2 Germans are on the list as well: Moritz Seider is rated "A" as expected and Nikita Alexandrov got "B" (he's never played for Germany though).
No Latvians or Austrians were discovered.
Alright, so here's who was also listed.

Also For Germany: Tobias Ancicka, Alexander Dersch, Taro Jentzsch, Tommy Pasanen, Moritz Raab
For Austria: David Maier

I would say the only surprise is no Yannik Valenti to my count.
 
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Maverick41

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Alright, so here's who was also listed.

Also For Germany: Tobias Ancicka, Alexander Dersch, Taro Jentzsch, Tommy Pasanen, Moritz Raab
For Austria: David Maier

I would say the only surprise is no Yannik Valenti to my count.

I am also surprised not to see Valenti on the list. On the other side, I am also surprised they have Raab on the list. He has totally flown under my radar. I guess I'll have to take a look at him, next time I get a chance.

BTW Nino Kinder (C) is another German on the list.
 

kabidjan18

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I am also surprised not to see Valenti on the list. On the other side, I am also surprised they have Raab on the list. He has totally flown under my radar. I guess I'll have to take a look at him, next time I get a chance.

BTW Nino Kinder (C) is another German on the list.
Haha, finding all the Germans on a players to watch list is a group task.

Big injury scare with Marco Rossi. Early indications seem to suggest that it will be ok, but those are very preliminary.

What's the situation with Bokk and Vaxjo?
 
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kabidjan18

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