OT: 2019 Football Thread: Part II – Free Agency and The Draft

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OT: - 2019 Football Thread: Free Agency and The Draft

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[RangerBlues]

Drafting philosopy!?
Whats that?

 

[nyr2k2]

Jets needed another OL and WR. Instead they get a special teams LB that is redundant and, indefensibly, a shittier Dex McDougle. I still like the first three picks and the TE could be nice, but otherwise today sucked and Mac continues his one step forward and two steps backward routine.

 

[Maximus]

Well with the draft over, time to reflect a bit as we head into some dead time till training camps open in August. As one of them long time suffering Jet fans...almost 50 years , I've pretty much seen it all here in Jetland and I must admit to feeling some actual hope for the future.

I don't think there is any question we are heading in the right direction...I mean it's about f'n time...right? It actually feels OK to be sort of excited for the season as well which is kind of a different feeling than most. I am also saying we also need to be realistic with our expectations.

We still have some pretty major holes to plug. I'm not convinced our OLine is up to snuff yet. We still need a solid CB. So there are holes. But we also have some damn good players and we are going to be a pain in the ass to play. I'd think 8-8 this year would be the benchmark for us and would be a bigtime improvement.

Anything better than 8-8 would be part of the bonus plan for this upcoming season. 2020 is when we can realistically expect to make the playoffs and if we didn't, we should all be pissed off. But this year...let's get to 8-8-9-7...let's have some important December games to play, have Sam makes more strides to stardom and I think that would be realistic and a heck of a good springboard for what should be hopefully a real nice run of success going forward....here's to hoping....

 

[LaffyTaffy]

Jets and Giants had seemingly opposite drafts. Giants went bonkers with their first pick then had a very good draft. Jets did well in the 1st-3rd round and then meh.

 

[Matt4776]

Jets needed another OL and WR. Instead they get a special teams LB that is redundant and, indefensibly, a ****tier Dex McDougle. I still like the first three picks and the TE could be nice, but otherwise today sucked and Mac continues his one step forward and two steps backward routine.

Strong disagree.

LB is a sneaky good pick. As a Michigan alum who watches a ton of B1G football, I liked Cashman almost as much as I like Bush.

He might not get too much defense playing time this year because of Lee/Mosley/Williamson, but strong case he was BPA there.

 

[bl02]

Strong disagree.

LB is a sneaky good pick. As a Michigan alum who watches a ton of B1G football, I liked Cashman almost as much as I like Bush.

He might not get too much defense playing time this year because of Lee/Mosley/Williamson, but strong case he was BPA there.

I agree I have heard good things about Cashman. Wish my team would have drafted him.

 

[RangerBlues]

I thought the Jets did OK
They should have made an effort to give Sam some toys or a little better protection.
The Giants first round is all boom/bust
The rest should be OK

 

[Maximus]

Jets needed another OL and WR. Instead they get a special teams LB that is redundant and, indefensibly, a ****tier Dex McDougle. I still like the first three picks and the TE could be nice, but otherwise today sucked and Mac continues his one step forward and two steps backward routine.

I agree with you that the first three picks by Mac were just fine if not very very good.

Seeing that I rely on Pro Football Focus which I subscribe too as IMO, they are the best evaluators of college and pro talent on the planet, I'm going to dissagree with your comments that we busted on the final 3 picks other than maybe the TE pick. Here's what PFF state about our last 3 picks:

TREVON WESCO is ranked....get ready for this....228th of 250. So apparently PFF thinks we reached bigtime. I guess we'll see. But I do admit this pick is the only one of our draft picks, that I was a bit shaky about and apparently the peeps at PFF are as well. Here's what they say about him....."Wesco is a big-bodied blocking tight end with some upside in the passing game coming out of West Virginia. He finished the 2018 season ranked tied for seventh among draft-eligible tight ends in run-blocking grade (72.9)".....

BLAKE CASHMAN is ranked 59th on their board which is a late 2nd round pick. So according to them we got an absolute steal. Here's what they say about him..." Cashman earned a 90.0-plus overall grade this past season and tested out as one of the most athletic linebackers in the class at the combine".

BLESSUAN AUSTIN is ranked 214 out of 250 which is higher than our Wesco pick from earlier in the 5th. He fills a need and so hopefully he'll stay healthy, be good and make and impact. One never knows with 6th, 7th round picks...right?

Anyways, here's what PFF says about Austin......."Austin has great size and length for the cornerback position, but injuries have kept us from seeing if he can reach his potential. He played fewer than 200 defensive snaps over the past two years and earned sub-70.0 overall grades in 2016 and 2015 with Rutgers".

All in all if I had to give an all around grade for the Jet draft, I'd go with a B+. Williams alone is an A/A+....Politte is a B+/A-....Edoga is a B+....Wesco is a C+....Cashman is a B/B+ and Austin is C+/B. Add it all up and we have a B+ type of draft. Obviously we'll know more during camp but I think Mac did a pretty decent job at least on paper....we'll see soon enough....

 

[Fugazy]

I hated what the Jets did today. If they really wanted the WVU tight end, they more than likely could have gotten him in the 6th round. Feels like a big reach for a 4th round pick.

 

[Machinehead]

I thought the Giants had a fine draft outside of Jones.

But then again, that's like saying I had a fine vacation outside of my flight crashing.

 

[Matt4776]

I hated what the Jets did today. If they really wanted the WVU tight end, they more than likely could have gotten him in the 6th round. Feels like a big reach for a 4th round pick.

I don't think this is true. Obviously, there is no way for you or me to know for sure, but I know the commentators on the channel I was watching (I flipped back and forth between ESPN and NFL all day, so I'm not sure which one I was on at the time) said the pick made other war rooms throw remotes across their table. Exaggeration? Probably. But most sources made it seem he was in high demand.

Many (including our own @Hunter Gathers) think his offensive game has untapped potential due to his improvement this year, and WVU's lack of any sort of TE game. But, even if that part of his game never takes off, he's a day 1 starter that will be a crucial blocking TE that is a great complement to Herndon, and someone to protect our two most important investments in Sam and Le'Veon. And, the fact we'll never have to see Eric Tomlinson on the field again is just an added bonus.

In general, I know many (myself included) get drawn to names that are projected sexy 2nd/3rd rounders in mocks that end up slipping to the 4th/5th and later. I don't have the numbers, but I'd bet significant money that those players end up busting at a higher rate than the ones that fans hate for seemingly coming out of nowhere. Teams are not infallible, but if 32 teams passed on a player 4 or 5 times, the likelihood that they're a "secret stud," especially when they're as well-known as most of the "sexy" ones are, seem very low. These guys scout them full time.

This is even more true in a sport like football, when you're drafting grown men aged 21-24, all from (pretty much) the same league, who play significant roles their first year. There is so much less projection (and thus, less randomness) then a sport like hockey, when you're drafting kids who are years away from making any sort of impact, all while having to project their success from different leagues, continents, rink sizes.etc.

 

[Matt4776]

I thought the Giants had a fine draft outside of Jones.

But then again, that's like saying I had a fine vacation outside of my flight crashing.

Didn't love Dexter either. I'm sure I don't know your team's needs as well as you do, but I thought Hill/Tomlinson played well last year as young guys. And, I don't think Dexter is the type of elite upside guy you take regardless of organizational needs. I don't like the value of a run-stopping DT at a position of strength in a league trending more and more to the pass everyday is a wise move in the first round.

I do like the rest of your draft, though.

 

[Machinehead]

Didn't love Dexter either. I'm sure I don't know your team's needs as well as you do, but I thought Hill/Tomlinson played well last year as young guys. And, I don't think Dexter is the type of elite upside guy you take regardless of organizational needs. I don't like the value of a run-stopping DT at a position of strength in a league trending more and more to the pass everyday is a wise move in the first round.

I do like the rest of your draft, though.

lol the Giants' needs? Outside of RB...



But I do agree with what you're saying. If not for that pick it could have been very good besides Jones. Now it's just fine.

 

[JCProdigy]

But I do agree with what you're saying. If not for that pick it could have been very good besides Jones. Now it's just fine.

I would comment that it may not be even just "fine" if only because your QB sets your draft strategy and organization strategy for the next several years. If they have faith in Jones and he fails, they will have spent the next several drafts trying to, futilely, surround him with playmakers. That's like putting some beautiful shutters on a house with a faulty foundation.

 

[Matt4776]

I would comment that it may not be even just "fine" if only because your QB sets your draft strategy and organization strategy for the next several years. If they have faith in Jones and he fails, they will have spent the next several drafts trying to, futilely, surround him with playmakers. That's like putting some beautiful shutters on a house with a faulty foundation.

Yep. The NFL is a cruel mistress in that regard. Take it from a Jets fan.

If you miss on a QB, especially a high 1st round QB, it sets your franchise back immeasurably.

Even if you draft other young studs, they'll wallow away while your bust QB holds your team back. Best case scenario, you draft another QB before those studs are irrelevant, but they'll be on much higher contracts. You'll lose all value from their rookie deals.

The 09-10 Jets had the best defense in the NFL, best OL in the NFL, best running game in the NFL (large part due to the OL, but good RBs too), and very good weapons.

Had a generational CB drafted in 2007, generational C drafted in 2006, All-Pro LT drafted in 2006, All-Pro MLB drafted in 2006. Other young talent that was drafted that were great/had elite seasons. Leon Washington. Kerry Rhodes.etc. Had great shrewd signings/trades (Moore, Woody, Faneca, Thomas Jones.etc.). Still had some old-school vets playing at a high level in Ellis, Pace.etc. Signed the over-the-top pieces in Bart Scott, Cromartie.etc.

Despite making it to the AFCG twice in first two years, QB busted. Our older players phased out. Our 2006-2007 drafted core wallowed without a QB. Couldn't fully commit to a new QB because he was drafted so high. Resulted in half-assing it and taking a 2nd round QB instead in 2013. Then couldn't commit because the 2nd round QB had a decent game one time.

Missing on Sanchez likely costed the Jets a SB title, and then 7 additional years of garbage teams with no hope towards the future notwithstanding one year of buying a bunch of 30+ year olds to make the playoffs and still missing.

I hope Jones works out for you, and in the alternative, I hope you are brave enough to move on quickly. You can't afford to wallow while the rest of the team (basically Saquon) decomposes.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I hated what the Jets did today. If they really wanted the WVU tight end, they more than likely could have gotten him in the 6th round. Feels like a big reach for a 4th round pick.

This is wrong.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I don't think this is true. Obviously, there is no way for you or me to know for sure, but I know the commentators on the channel I was watching (I flipped back and forth between ESPN and NFL all day, so I'm not sure which one I was on at the time) said the pick made other war rooms throw remotes across their table. Exaggeration? Probably. But most sources made it seem he was in high demand.

Many (including our own @Hunter Gathers) think his offensive game has untapped potential due to his improvement this year, and WVU's lack of any sort of TE game. But, even if that part of his game never takes off, he's a day 1 starter that will be a crucial blocking TE that is a great complement to Herndon, and someone to protect our two most important investments in Sam and Le'Veon. And, the fact we'll never have to see Eric Tomlinson on the field again is just an added bonus.

In general, I know many (myself included) get drawn to names that are projected sexy 2nd/3rd rounders in mocks that end up slipping to the 4th/5th and later. I don't have the numbers, but I'd bet significant money that those players end up busting at a higher rate than the ones that fans hate for seemingly coming out of nowhere. Teams are not infallible, but if 32 teams passed on a player 4 or 5 times, the likelihood that they're a "secret stud," especially when they're as well-known as most of the "sexy" ones are, seem very low. These guys scout them full time.

This is even more true in a sport like football, when you're drafting grown men aged 21-24, all from (pretty much) the same league, who play significant roles their first year. There is so much less projection (and thus, less randomness) then a sport like hockey, when you're drafting kids who are years away from making any sort of impact, all while having to project their success from different leagues, continents, rink sizes.etc.

Hell, it’s not just that he improved. It’s that the coaching staff at WVU finally found a f***ing clue and played him. Those of us who saw him in WVU spring workouts knew he was talented and continuously wondered what the f*** Holgorsen was doing.

Can you imagine if he continued to use Wesco like he did prior in 2018? A talented kid would've went completely unnoticed and undrafted due to sheer incompetence.

 

[Zibanejbread]

Hell, it’s not just that he improved. It’s that the coaching staff at WVU finally found a ****ing clue and played him. Those of us who saw him in WVU spring workouts knew he was talented and continuously wondered what the **** Holgorsen was doing.

Can you imagine if he continued to use Wesco like he did prior in 2018? A talented kid would've went completely unnoticed and undrafted due to sheer incompetence.

Honest question because I haven't seen enough of him... how does he compare to Herndon? We just took him last year and finished last year strong, so I'm not sure if TE was necessarily a need, unless they plan to use a lot of 2 TE sets.

 

[RangerBlues]

Outstanding!

https://nypost.com/2019/04/28/giants-draft-pick-corey-ballentine-shot-friend-killed-in-shooting/

 

[broadwayblue]

That's horrible. Probably not the best time for jokes as some things are more important than sports.

 

[Fugazy]

Outstanding!

https://nypost.com/2019/04/28/giants-draft-pick-corey-ballentine-shot-friend-killed-in-shooting/

Wow that’s so awful.

 

[YetAnotherNorwegian]

Good to see he's expected to make a full recovery. Get well soon!

 

[ponzu4u]

As much as I hate the Jones pick, I can't deny I really don't mind the rest of the Giants' draft.

CB should be locked up for the immediate future. Think Lawrence has the potential to be a stud despite having 2 other young DTs on the roster. And like the gamble on a deep play threat in Slayton.

 

[Matt4776]

Honest question because I haven't seen enough of him... how does he compare to Herndon? We just took him last year and finished last year strong, so I'm not sure if TE was necessarily a need, unless they plan to use a lot of 2 TE sets.

They play different-ish positions.

I think Herndon improved his blocking to be adequate on the line, but he's more of an F tight-end. Great receiving threat, can block, over the middle. What you envision as your modern NFL TE.

Wesco on the other hand I think is going to be a great Y-back for us. He'll be able to be an in-line blocker. Extra support for Sam & Le'Veon. He looked real good run-blocking on tape. And, if his offensive game continues to develop, he'll be able to feast with Herndon being the TE to get most of the attention.