2019 - 2020 St. Louis Blues - Defending the Cup - Part 2: The Depth from Within

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TK 421

Barbashev eats babies pass it on
Sep 12, 2007
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I can see maybe Nashville. They won division last year and added the center they've been craving. I think we still beat them in 7 game series, but they should have nice season. Seeing Calgary, San Jose, and Colorado picked ahead of us at this point is embarrassing for whomever picked it.

I'm with you on the maybe part re: Nashville. But even then I watched that team going through the motions in a stretch run, honestly looked like they didn't care. So for that reason I see their name and my automatic response is, "Pfft, sure."
 

Brian39

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Apr 24, 2014
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I think Yeo and Allen played a part in that
We can pin plenty on them but even if you want to lay it all at the feet of Yeo, then you have to acknowledge that lineup decisions are his and Blais/Kyrou did absolutely nothing to help the team early in the season.

Blais' first stint as a regular saw him score 0 points and a -3 through 8 games in October. His 2nd stint saw him post 1 point and a -2 through November (and 1 game in December) before he left the team for a couple months. 1 point and a -5 through 16 games is a well below average contribution. He had 3 points and was +4 in his last 16 games of the regular season and then 3 points and a +3 during his 15 games in the playoffs. Blais was a fringe guy all year, but he just wasn't good in his first stretch of play here.

Kyrou had 3 points and a -1 through his 16 games with absolutely godawful possession numbers (CF% of 40 and a CF% rel of -10). His expected +/- during that stint was -2.3 despite playing only 9 minutes a night. He was very much not NHL ready.

I'm not blaming those two for the start of the year, but neither played well and having 2 guys playing like that certainly hurt the team.
 

Ranksu

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I think Yeo and Allen played a part in that
You think? Lol, Allen was horrendous.

But you could say without Allen beeing Allen = suck be bad #1 starter and Yeo's lack of coaching skills Blues wouldn't be Stanley Cup champs. So it was kind of blessing we had/have such a bad NHL players and coach, Army was forced to make a change. No more soft in the net, no more soft behind bench, no more goldenplate boy, time for real mans play.

 

TK 421

Barbashev eats babies pass it on
Sep 12, 2007
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You think? Lol, Allen was horrendous.

But you could say without Allen beeing Allen = suck be bad #1 starter and Yeo's lack of coaching skills Blues wouldn't be Stanley Cup champs. So it was kind of blessing we had/have such a bad NHL players and coach, Army was forced to make a change. No more soft in the net, no more soft behind bench, no more goldenplate boy, time for real mans play.



Adding goldenplate boy to gritty popcorn guy, crotch academy and kitten soft.
 

LGB

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Feb 4, 2019
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Interesting PP units. The ROR unit has a lot of talent, but is 3F/2D which is typically just less effective than a 4F/1D set-up. Maybe Petro lines up on the wall instead of the blue line though. The other one seems like it should be the second unit, but then you have Tarasenko. Maybe he can carry them, but seems like a waste to have him there.
 

Blanick

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Sooo...
I will not be able to make the GDT today. I wanted to make something special for the banner raising but alas real life has reared its ugly head. The truth is this is probably going to be a bit of theme for me this year, spare time is a bit of luxury for me right now.
 

simon IC

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Sooo...
I will not be able to make the GDT today. I wanted to make something special for the banner raising but alas real life has reared its ugly head. The truth is this is probably going to be a bit of theme for me this year, spare time is a bit of luxury for me right now.
Sorry to hear, I really liked your GDT's last season. I totally understand though. Go Blues!!!
 
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The Note

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I can get a GDT together if no one else has anything? It won’t be Blanick-level but I’ll do my best.
 
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Brian39

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I'm not sure what thread to put this in and this feels like a bit of a 'catch all' thread, so I figured it fit here.

Looking beyond this year, I think Army has a 4 year plan and isn't all that concerned about anything beyond that. 90 and 91 hit UFA after that 4 year window and in today's NHL, I'm not sure you can forecast much beyond 4 years. Other than avoiding horrendous team killing contracts I don't think you can predict what teams will and will not be good 5 years out.

I think that is part of the logic behind the Faulk trade and subsequent extension. Bokk probably wasn't going to be an impact NHLer for most (and possibly all) of that window, even if he hits his ceiling. He is still probably 2 years away from the NHL and he very well may be just an adequate NHL rookie in that 3rd year. I think his ceiling being mostly outside that 4 year window made him expendable. Similar thinking with the extension. I think that contract will hurt by the end (assuming he is still here), but probably not in the 4 year window. It isn't a large enough deal to be team killing, so I think Army was more than content tacking on term to bring the AAV down now.

I expect the same thinking for the Petro contract and have been vocal about that here. It very well may hurt in the last 2-3 years, but that is the cost of getting him at a manageable AAV in that 4 year window.

Maybe I'm bringing my own biases and projecting them onto Army, but the Faulk move at least supports my narrative. The window is the 4 years we have 90 and 91 making a combined $15 mil against the cap. That's the window I care about when talking trades/contracts and for at least the next 2 years, I don't think that will change. Avoid contracts that will become massive anchors and are structured in a way that they can't be moved, but I'm more than happy adding term into years 5+ if it means improving the team in years 1-4 and massaging the cap to maintain flexibility in that time.

Looking at that 4 year window, I'm incredibly optimistic. I think Allen will be fine as a backup this year and should be moveable with little to no salary retained this summer. I doubt we get much of any asset in return, but that's fine. I think a team on the rise with a young goalie and plenty of cap space will view him as the best available mentor that can provide decent-enough goaltending over 30-35 starts. There are enough creative ways to get out of Steen's deal that I think it will be in Steen's best interest to work with us to figure out an amicable solution. Get him his 1000th game this season and then figure out a way to give him a graceful 2020 and beyond. I don't see any scenario where Steen has a fun last season in 2020/21 if he stays here. The fans are going to turn on him if he's here and he very well might collect a paycheck as a healthy scratch or riding the bus in San Antonio. Leaving the Blues may not be his first choice, but it is probably the best choice out of the ones that will realistically be available to him. Between those two, I see the Blues clearing about $7.5-8 mil of their combined $10 mil cap hits without giving up much if anything. That's $23 mil in cap space + whatever cap increase for an estimated $25ish mil to fill 9 roster spots in 2020/21. That's enough to sign Petro+Schenn+Barby* to fair deals and then fill the remaining roster with ELCs (but would require a bridge with Dunn setting him up for a big raise the following season). It is also enough to sign Petro+Barby*, give Dunn a deal with term and then fill the rest of the roster with ELCs and maybe one other $2-3 mil contract. Or, you move Bozak as well and you can give Petro+Schenn+Barby*+Dunn fair market value with term and then fill out the rest of the roster.

Long story short, we have the flexibility to keep a damn good group together for that 4 year window. It may require eating some term that hurts in 5 years, but I'm more than okay with that. Let's go win another Cup or two and get this franchise into the conversation of "best teams in the Salary Cap era."

*As pointed out by @AVictoryDive, Barby is signed for the next 2 years, so we don't have to fit a raise for him under the cap. That gives us even more wiggle room. Beautiful.
 
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AVictoryDive

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I'm not sure what thread to put this in and this feels like a bit of a 'catch all' thread, so I figured it fit here.

Looking beyond this year, I think Army has a 4 year plan and isn't all that concerned about anything beyond that. 90 and 91 hit UFA after that 4 year window and in today's NHL, I'm not sure you can forecast much beyond 4 years. Other than avoiding horrendous team killing contracts I don't think you can predict what teams will and will not be good 5 years out.

I think that is part of the logic behind the Faulk trade and subsequent extension. Bokk probably wasn't going to be an impact NHLer for most (and possibly all) of that window, even if he hits his ceiling. He is still probably 2 years away from the NHL and he very well may be just an adequate NHL rookie in that 3rd year. I think his ceiling being mostly outside that 4 year window made him expendable. Similar thinking with the extension. I think that contract will hurt by the end (assuming he is still here), but probably not in the 4 year window. It isn't a large enough deal to be team killing, so I think Army was more than content tacking on term to bring the AAV down now.

I expect the same thinking for the Petro contract and have been vocal about that here. It very well may hurt in the last 2-3 years, but that is the cost of getting him at a manageable AAV in that 4 year window.

Maybe I'm bringing my own biases and projecting them onto Army, but the Faulk move at least supports my narrative. The window is the 4 years we have 90 and 91 making a combined $15 mil against the cap. That's the window I care about when talking trades/contracts and for at least the next 2 years, I don't think that will change. Avoid contracts that will become massive anchors and are structured in a way that they can't be moved, but I'm more than happy adding term into years 5+ if it means improving the team in years 1-4 and massaging the cap to maintain flexibility in that time.

Looking at that 4 year window, I'm incredibly optimistic. I think Allen will be fine as a backup this year and should be moveable with little to no salary retained this summer. I doubt we get much of any asset in return, but that's fine. I think a team on the rise with a young goalie and plenty of cap space will view him as the best available mentor that can provide decent-enough goaltending over 30-35 starts. There are enough creative ways to get out of Steen's deal that I think it will be in Steen's best interest to work with us to figure out an amicable solution. Get him his 1000th game this season and then figure out a way to give him a graceful 2020 and beyond. I don't see any scenario where Steen has a fun last season in 2020/21 if he stays here. The fans are going to turn on him if he's here and he very well might collect a paycheck as a healthy scratch or riding the bus in San Antonio. Leaving the Blues may not be his first choice, but it is probably the best choice out of the ones that will realistically be available to him. Between those two, I see the Blues clearing about $7.5-8 mil of their combined $10 mil cap hits without giving up much if anything. That's $23 mil in cap space + whatever cap increase for an estimated $25ish mil to fill 9 roster spots in 2020/21. That's enough to sign Petro+Schenn+Barby to fair deals and then fill the remaining roster with ELCs (but would require a bridge with Dunn setting him up for a big raise the following season). It is also enough to sign Petro+Barby, give Dunn a deal with term and then fill the rest of the roster with ELCs and maybe one other $2-3 mil contract. Or, you move Bozak as well and you can give Petro+Schenn+Barby+Dunn fair market value with term and then fill out the rest of the roster.

Long story short, we have the flexibility to keep a damn good group together for that 4 year window. It may require eating some term that hurts in 5 years, but I'm more than okay with that. Let's go win another Cup or two and get this franchise into the conversation of "best teams in the Salary Cap era."
Remember Barbashev did sign a 2 year deal so he’s still an rfa in 21-22
 

Brian39

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Remember Barbashev did sign a 2 year deal so he’s still an rfa in 21-22
Complete brain fart by me! I was thinking it was a 1 year deal and we'd have to deal with him again next summer with arbitration rights.
 

HighNote

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Watching the game last night, it dawned on me how bad of a position Fabbri is in. Coming up as a prospect and in his first season, he was making an impact on this team as an offensive talent who had good speed and great tenacity. After the injuries, it's clear that his development took a hit and he's struggled to make the same impact again (and it's yet to be seen if he ever will). But the worst part of it is, he can't really change his playstyle all that much. He is stuck trying to be the player he once was, and that's pretty much his only option. He just doesn't have the physical tools to adapt in the same way a guy like Barbashev has. Barbashev couldn't crack the team playing the way he was playing as a prospect, so he adapted and accepted that he needed to settle for being a physical 4th line spark plug who plays technically sound on both sides of the puck. He's successfully transformed into that and he's now a mainstay on the 4th line. Blais has done the same thing. Fabbri simply can't do what Barbashev or Blais has. The way he becomes an impact player again cannot really be taught, and he can't bulk up and be a physical guy like Barbashev/Blais, he's just not big enough. It all comes down to if he can rekindle those offensive skills, and I'm not sure that's something he can regain through any sort of training/practice. The best thing for him is to just play and see if it starts coming back to him, and that's what I and a lot of you guys have been saying...that he just needs playing time.

This year is make or break for me. If he doesn't start to show signs of being the old Fabbri, I'm not really sure he has much of a place on this team. He has no defining identity like our other depth guys. He's not a shutdown guy, and he's not an offensive guy, and he certainly can't do both like a Sundqvist type player can. He's not physical, and he's not bringing any kind of blazing speed. I hate to say it, but all he's really doing is filling a hole in the lineup because there is one. He needs to start making an impact offensively, whether it be on the scoresheet or by fueling a forecheck (think of a Maroon or Bozak).

His days here are numbered, and it's a shame because I really like Fabbri and I'm pulling for him. I just don't think it's going to happen. Hopefully I'm wrong.
 

MissouriMook

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I agree this is a make or break year for Fabbri, but even if he can't crack the Top 9 in a permanent role, I think there is still a role for him as the 13th or 14th forward that can fill in for an injured Top 9 player in the short term. I'm really pulling for him to figure out how to make a difference.
 
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Brian39

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Watching the game last night, it dawned on me how bad of a position Fabbri is in. Coming up as a prospect and in his first season, he was making an impact on this team as an offensive talent who had good speed and great tenacity. After the injuries, it's clear that his development took a hit and he's struggled to make the same impact again (and it's yet to be seen if he ever will). But the worst part of it is, he can't really change his playstyle all that much. He is stuck trying to be the player he once was, and that's pretty much his only option. He just doesn't have the physical tools to adapt in the same way a guy like Barbashev has. Barbashev couldn't crack the team playing the way he was playing as a prospect, so he adapted and accepted that he needed to settle for being a physical 4th line spark plug who plays technically sound on both sides of the puck. He's successfully transformed into that and he's now a mainstay on the 4th line. Blais has done the same thing. Fabbri simply can't do what Barbashev or Blais has. The way he becomes an impact player again cannot really be taught, and he can't bulk up and be a physical guy like Barbashev/Blais, he's just not big enough. It all comes down to if he can rekindle those offensive skills, and I'm not sure that's something he can regain through any sort of training/practice. The best thing for him is to just play and see if it starts coming back to him, and that's what I and a lot of you guys have been saying...that he just needs playing time.

This year is make or break for me. If he doesn't start to show signs of being the old Fabbri, I'm not really sure he has much of a place on this team. He has no defining identity like our other depth guys. He's not a shutdown guy, and he's not an offensive guy, and he certainly can't do both like a Sundqvist type player can. He's not physical, and he's not bringing any kind of blazing speed. I hate to say it, but all he's really doing is filling a hole in the lineup because there is one. He needs to start making an impact offensively, whether it be on the scoresheet or by fueling a forecheck (think of a Maroon or Bozak).

His days here are numbered, and it's a shame because I really like Fabbri and I'm pulling for him. I just don't think it's going to happen. Hopefully I'm wrong.
I agree with all of this except the last paragraph. I don't think his days are numbered yet. I'd go that way if I had to put money on it right now, but I think he is going to get enough games this season to find his spot. He needs to take advantage and I'm not sure that he is going to be able to, but I think he's going to get 20 or 25 games out of our first 30ish.
 

Chojin

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If we have any hope of re-signing Petro, we're going to have to move out a lot of salary and the cap is going to have to jump a few million. It should be easy enough to move Bozac and Allen, but I don't see how we could move Steen even if he did waive his NTC.

At some point, it may be better to let Petro unless he takes an extremely team-friendly contract, which I doubt he would.
 

A Real Barn Burner

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If we have any hope of re-signing Petro, we're going to have to move out a lot of salary and the cap is going to have to jump a few million. It should be easy enough to move Bozac and Allen, but I don't see how we could move Steen even if he did waive his NTC.

At some point, it may be better to let Petro unless he takes an extremely team-friendly contract, which I doubt he would.

I thought Armstrong’s hold up would be term when signing Petro. He just went 8 years on a 36-37 year old Schenn so I cant see him balking on signing Petro past 35. I think it’s all on Petro if he wants to stay AA.V has to be right but they will give him the term it seems. It going to be interesting to see how creative he gets to keep the window going but it is really looking like in 4-5 years we will be doing a major retool.
 

Stealth JD

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I thought Armstrong’s hold up would be term when signing Petro. He just went 8 years on a 36-37 year old Schenn so I cant see him balking on signing Petro past 35. I think it’s all on Petro if he wants to stay AA.V has to be right but they will give him the term it seems. It going to be interesting to see how creative he gets to keep the window going but it is really looking like in 4-5 years we will be doing a major retool.

Army's plan is clear: Sign everyone through age 37. Would could possibly go wrong with that plan?
 
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