What's your problem here dude? I wasn't even really bragging about Ilves being some kind of a top 3 favorite. I wrote that I HOPE that they can be even in top 3, and that my expectations are only in them being in the top 6 for regular season. Seems that it is really someone else having much more bias here. You are also not really at all realistic if you seriously believe that Ilves wouldn't even get in to the playoffs. They have clearly become stronger compared to last season. But we will see when the season is played. Before that it is only about opinions and predictions, and no-one is more right about them than others.
2019-2020 Liiga Talk
- Thread starter Artorius Horus T
- Start date
JabbaJabba
Registered User
As a neutral Liiga follower, it is impossible for me to think that the list on the right is more impressive than the list on the left. Only one HIFK might miss is Kyle Quincey, otherwise the players on the left are equals or improvements compared to the players who left. Sure the list of players who left is longer but is the overall quality better than the players who came, I don't think so. Overall, I believe HIFK is better next season when you consider the development of the young players as well.
Artorius Horus T
sincerety
Artorius Horus T
sincerety
I think HIFK will do better this season what Kärpät does. HIFK's team is really talented.
Lundell has a shot of winning the scoring title and Nordgren to have most goals. Great goalie duo with Engren&Tuohimaa.
Lundell has a shot of winning the scoring title and Nordgren to have most goals. Great goalie duo with Engren&Tuohimaa.
Hmm. I find it on the other hand impossible to see the situation like you see it. First of all HIFK lost all of their five best point scorers (Thorell 49 points, Salminen 43 points, Tyrväinen 42 points, Santala 39 points and Rask 38 points).
In return they got Turunen (54 points last season), Saarinen (49 points), Paajanen (36 points), Dyk (a usually 20-30 point player from Swedish second league Allsvenskan, last season over 50 points in Allsvenskan, which doesn’t guarantee any great production at Liiga level), Sallinen (an enormously overrated role player whom can’t produce much and gives very limited benefit for HIFK).
In my opinion Thorell is the best forward out of all the mentioned ones. None of the forwards HIFK got now will be as good as he was when he was healthy. Salminen had a bit bad stint with HIFK, but I think that he is pretty much as good a player as Turunen, although Turunen had an excellent season for HPK. You could probably argue that Saarinen is better than Rask, at least it is so in points, but honestly I’m not sure if it really is so otherwise, as Rask produced relatively well too, but he is also a relentless forechecker and at his best in the playoffs. I would honestly have him in my team instead of an over 34 year old most probably regressing Saarinen. Sure Santala is even older and definitely regressing even more, but still losing his 39 point production and getting a probably 20 point Sallinen doesn’t seriously sound good to me. Paajanen and Tyrväinen are in my opinion quite even, but Tyrväinen seems to produce a bit better. The edge for me would go slightly to Tyrväinen here. Sure Paajanen was the playoffs MVP in last playoffs, but that was in my opinion pretty much a joke of a choice. And anyway it shows more of how average the HPK roster was after all last season. The real MVP should have been Emil Larmi in goal, or Antti Pennanen, if a coach could be nominated for the award.
And in addition to all mentioned above, HIFK lost their three best defencemen (Eronen, Quincey and O’Connor) and each of them are better than Rony Ahonen. Kousa and Eronen are in my opinion quite even though, but they don’t have anyone to replace Quincey or even O’Connor.
I do agree that HIFK’s very talented young players might develop already a lot, which would make them clearly better than last season and it could help HIFK substantially. But that is still something that you shouldn’t count on as a certain thing to happen, at least with already drastic improvement this season. Could even happen, but it would be foolish to count on it when they are still so young talents.
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ChicagoBullsFan
Registered User
Hold your horses.
Lundell won't win SM liiga's scoring title and Nordgren won't be best goal-scorer.
If some HIFK player wins scoring title it'll be Jesse Saarinen.
And best goal-scorer might be Sebastian Dyk.
Nordgren is proved that he's injury prone and can't stay healthy.
I'm surprised if Nordgren plays even 25 games this season scores something 15 to 20 points.
Lundell can score about 30 to 35 points but not more.
Engren has been as mediocre in pre-season games and very unsure too.
Tuohimaa can be best goaltender or SM liiga this season but it could be Lukas Dostal too.
Artorius Horus T
sincerety
Jesse Saarinen? Yeah right... can that old scrooge even skate anymore, skating used to be his thing, like 10 years ago.
Jesse Saarinen is a super meh player for me, i know last season was a big for him, but don't expect
the lightning striking twice and all.
Dyk?? Why?, just because he is Swedish and scored 28 goals in the Allsvenskan?.
- i think he will score 15-18 goals for HIFK.
You have a little trust for Finnish young star players of your team, weird.
Lundell is going to be HIFK 's 1st line center, dude is going to be frigging awesome next season in the Sm-Liiga
30-35 points, how?, why?, you don't think he wont continue to develop? He was already 0.52 ppg level player last season
1 year makes a huge difference for a young player. 30 points would be a complete failure of a season and would drop his
draft ranking significantly. I expect 50+ points from him, with a full season
Nordgren is awesome young player, its part of development, injury prone???, don't put too much weight on it,
Nordgren is going to play a full season and score 20-30 goals this season.
Engren? So?. Haven't you learned already, preseason means nothing when the real games begin.
ChicagoBullsFan
Registered User
Lundell a HIFK's 1st line C in his draft season ? come on give me break Lundell is not next Barkov.
Paajanen is already considered to HIFK's 1st line Sallinen is 2nd line C and Lundell 3rd line C
and that's how it should be.
If / when Lundell wants to be HIFK's 1st line C he must earn it
And also he must outplay Paajanen can he do those things? i don't know but i have my doubts.
You don't give HIFK's 1st line C position to 17 yrs old 2020 eligible NHL draft prospect.
And by the way Nordgren won't play full season in SM liiga.
He's still recovering major hip surgery and before he's even game shape it'll take time.
I heard in HIFK's season opening event there has been a backlash from Nordgren's hip surgery recovery.
What that backlash is or was that my sources didn't tell because it's not public information.
I get that you have high expectations on Lundell and Nordgren but get real please.
Those two are still young kids god sake.
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ChicagoBullsFan
Registered User
Tell me how Lundell and Nordgren will play full season in liiga ?
If / when both are healthy when U20 WJC training camp starts in December both will go that camp and that's a fact.
Then if they make Finland's U20 WJC roster they BOTH WILL MISS at least 5 LIIGA GAMES.
Full SM liiga's regular season is 60 games .
So it's impossible to play full season in liiga if / when player / players will miss 5 or 7 games due to U20 WJC's.
I don't know what overconfidence pills you're taken.
You are setting unrealistic expectations for two young players who haven’t even shown anything in adult games yet and haven’t made any breakthroughs in SM liiga level.
Predict and expect whatever you want but if your predictions and expectations won't come true
don't come say to me '' i should have listen you'' or '' you were right and i was wrong ''
I'm told you that your expectations are unrealistic so prepare to disappoint.
I don't have anymore any interest to continue this ludicrous arguing with you any further.
Goodbye and have a nice weekend.
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I have to only shortly say that if you have Otto Paajanen as your number one center and Jere Sallinen as your number two center in Liiga, your team will need all the luck in the world to be even a top 5 team after regular season. Top 3 finishing is absolute high fantasy already. You better hope and pray for Lundell to after all take a big development step and the role of the number one center, or your high fantasy will very likely stay as just fantasy.
Hostile Offer
Artist formerly known as Eagle Peninsula
ChicagoBullsFan
Registered User
Here we go again oh my f***ing god.
Have you totally forgotten that fact Paajanen was liiga playoffs MVP.
And 1st line C last seasons championship winning team.
You are totally out of lunch if you really are putting Paajanen 2nd or 3rd line C in HIFK.
Yes Lundell is promising young center but probably he's not next Barkov or Kotkaniemi.
Lundell is more like Mikko Koivu and sorry to say this but those early comparisons to Barkov aren't fair at all.
Do you have any clue how stacked 2020 NHL draft will be.
After Hlinka tournament there's 4 Canadians ( Lafreniere, Byfield, Perfetti, Lapierre ) competing TOP5 draft position in addition to that group contains also two Swedes ( Raymond and Holtz ) and one Russian ( Askarov ).
Lundell should play one hell of draft season if he wants to belong that group.
I probably don't need to reminded you of that Lundell didn't have best U18 WJC's this past April.
Meanwhile Raymond and Holtz were Sweden's TOP players in U18 WJC gold medal winning team.
That Lundell is Center is not giving or give any positional advantage to upcoming draft.
So it's not unlikely to see Lundell dropping somewhere TOP10 range in draft night.
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Btw according to an article in the Finnish newspaper YLE and television mtv uutiset Jesse Puljujärvi has signed a 1-year contract with Kärpät Oulu. The contract contents an option to sign another contract in the NHL until the first of December.
If I understood something wrong here are the YLE and mtv uutiset article for the Finns. You can correct me if it's wrong. Because I don't speak Finnish (the only phrase I know is 'minä puhun saksa' and some words 'näkemiin', 'hyvää päivää', 'kahvi'), I used a translation tool in the internet.
Jesse Puljujärvi palaa NHL:stä Kärppien vahvuuteen – "Fysiikka, taidot ja lahjakkuus riittävät varmasti NHL:ään"
Nyt se pommi jysähti! Jesse Puljujärvi teki sopimuksen Kärppiin
If I understood something wrong here are the YLE and mtv uutiset article for the Finns. You can correct me if it's wrong. Because I don't speak Finnish (the only phrase I know is 'minä puhun saksa' and some words 'näkemiin', 'hyvää päivää', 'kahvi'), I used a translation tool in the internet.
Jesse Puljujärvi palaa NHL:stä Kärppien vahvuuteen – "Fysiikka, taidot ja lahjakkuus riittävät varmasti NHL:ään"
Nyt se pommi jysähti! Jesse Puljujärvi teki sopimuksen Kärppiin
Artorius Horus T
sincerety
I wonder where do Puljujärvi and Lammikko fall in the line up?.
Are they gonna rely on their veterans and put Jussi Jokinen, Janne Pesonen, Mika Pyörälä to their top 6?
How well do the Räty brothers fit in and what about Tieksola?
What are they going to do with Jasper Lindsten, wow...has his career has stalled in Oulu or what,
after that great breakout season (16-17) for TPS at 22 years old, i thought he was going places,
KHL material at least.
I see a big role for the last season breakout players Koblizek and Kristof
for me, they are 1st line duo material for Kärpät, even with the Puljujärvi comeback.
I'd put Jokinen-Lammikko-Puljujärvi to the 2nd line and Räty-Kristof-Koblizek as the first line
put the young future star of the 2021 Draft to a big role (no more kiddie pool for him) from the get go.
Pesonen-Pyörälä-Räty to the 3rd but rotate Tieksola and Räty.
Are they gonna rely on their veterans and put Jussi Jokinen, Janne Pesonen, Mika Pyörälä to their top 6?
How well do the Räty brothers fit in and what about Tieksola?
What are they going to do with Jasper Lindsten, wow...has his career has stalled in Oulu or what,
after that great breakout season (16-17) for TPS at 22 years old, i thought he was going places,
KHL material at least.
I see a big role for the last season breakout players Koblizek and Kristof
for me, they are 1st line duo material for Kärpät, even with the Puljujärvi comeback.
I'd put Jokinen-Lammikko-Puljujärvi to the 2nd line and Räty-Kristof-Koblizek as the first line
put the young future star of the 2021 Draft to a big role (no more kiddie pool for him) from the get go.
Pesonen-Pyörälä-Räty to the 3rd but rotate Tieksola and Räty.
Jussi
Registered User
Player budgets (change from last season):
1) HIFK 3 300 000 (+50 000)
2) Kärpät 3 000 000
3) Tappara 2 850 000 (+100 000)
4) Lukko 2 500 000 (-100 000)
5) TPS 2 400 000 (+150 000)
6) Ilves 2 200 000 (+200 000)
6) KalPa 2 200 000 (+300 000)
8) JYP 2 150 000 (-500 000)
9) SaiPa 1 900 000 (-100 000)
9) Ässät 1 900 000
9) Pelicans 1 900 000 (+200 000)
12) HPK 1 750 000
13) KooKoo 1 700 000
14) Sport 1 600 000 (+100 000)
15) Jukurit 1 500 000
1) HIFK 3 300 000 (+50 000)
2) Kärpät 3 000 000
3) Tappara 2 850 000 (+100 000)
4) Lukko 2 500 000 (-100 000)
5) TPS 2 400 000 (+150 000)
6) Ilves 2 200 000 (+200 000)
6) KalPa 2 200 000 (+300 000)
8) JYP 2 150 000 (-500 000)
9) SaiPa 1 900 000 (-100 000)
9) Ässät 1 900 000
9) Pelicans 1 900 000 (+200 000)
12) HPK 1 750 000
13) KooKoo 1 700 000
14) Sport 1 600 000 (+100 000)
15) Jukurit 1 500 000
I used to cheer for Kärpät in the early 2000s when they humiliated Jokerit many times and won the title after having spent over a decade in the lower divisions.
However, they have themselves become so big that these days I'm supporting teams that play against them. Last season I was very happy about HPK beating them in the finals.
I think all of Finland outside Oulu was behind HPK.
However, you know you have a successful organisation when there are people out there celebrating when you lose.
However, they have themselves become so big that these days I'm supporting teams that play against them. Last season I was very happy about HPK beating them in the finals.
I think all of Finland outside Oulu was behind HPK.
However, you know you have a successful organisation when there are people out there celebrating when you lose.
Jussi
Registered User
Well it used to be like that with Jokerit in early 90's. A lot of fans outside of Helsinki during the 1991-92 season. The following season they started turning on them and from -94 onwards it was full on hate. Because in Finland, you can only succeed so much in domestic sports before you become hated. I mean our number one national trait isn't "neighbor envy" without reason.
ChicagoBullsFan
Registered User
Too many teams in Liiga but I guess that if we sent teams like Kookoo, Sport and Jukurit back to Mestis they would go bankcrupt.
ChicagoBullsFan
Registered User
shouldnt Ilves be in top, but 4 games 0 points, If you look at liiga stats is there any statement matka/aika , (it seems that Puljujärvi skate a lot)
Ilves had a promising pre-season and won their first time Tampere Cup in the history. All looked good then ... until real games started.
When regular season started, somehow i.e. disciplinity in Ilves play was visibly absent resulting into costly errors and box plays. Losses after losses. First won came just in the 6th game but was followed soon by disastrous visit to Oulu where Kärpät put 4-0 into scoreboard before audience had even sat down for the game. After Kärpät game, team management released the head coach Karri Kivi and nominated assistant coach Jouko Myrrä to be in charge. First game under Myrrä's leadership was three days later, away game in Lahti. Ilves was like a new born, very different team than few days ago and took convincing 7-2 win against Pelicans. Journey continues on Friday when Ilves hosts defending champion, HPK.
Any chance Eemeli Suomi draws NHL interest? If the article I've read is correct, his contract with Ilves expires next summer.
17-18: 40 points in 60 games.
18-19: 39 points in 49 games.
19-20: 14 points in 16 games.
He turns 24 in December.
17-18: 40 points in 60 games.
18-19: 39 points in 49 games.
19-20: 14 points in 16 games.
He turns 24 in December.
SoupyFIN
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