LadyStanley
Registered User
I think Knights are voiding season tickets for people who do that.
Depends on frequency and $$ amount above "face"
I think Knights are voiding season tickets for people who do that.
Depends on frequency and $$ amount above "face"
$54? That is just highway robbery. Do a lot of people user public transportation to get there?
The arena is literally on top of a train station.My one game in Boston, which happened many years ago, I had a Bruin sitting across from me on the subway on the way to the game.
There's a lot of money in Toronto. That's about all I can say.I genuinely wonder where the money comes from.
The other day I looked at TML ticket prices on a whim. You can't get in the door at ANY game for under $110/per, and it's more like $150 for most games. That's just the cheapest option to get in the door... we're talking $300 for a couple and $600 for a family, before adding parking/food/souvenirs. Pushing closer to $200 per person for one normal game, and that's the in-the-door price.
That compares incredibly unfavorably to almost any other entertainment option. Those are prices you expect to see for a major concert tour or a Broadway show that only comes to your city once a year, not for a sporting event that has 41 home dates. You can literally go to the Toronto Opera for half the price of going to a Leafs game... think about that discrepancy. They have entered a price tier that isn't even supported by an upper-class target market. The only way the pricing structure can make sense, is for corporations to buy the expensive tickets and for the rest to be treated as a re-sale investment by people with a lot of capital on their hands. Otherwise I can't see where a consistent market could exist for $200/person entry level pricing on seasonal entertainment.
IMO they are severely outrunning the market, as we have seen in other sports in recent years. The NHL has some cushion because of its affluent demographics, but I look at what happened to NASCAR and what is currently happening to the NFL where the presumption of infinite growth is grinding to a halt. The Rogers TV deal is a canary in the coal mine, as is the end of sellouts in formerly bulletproof markets -- and this is happening during a roaring economy.
Vegas fans also probably have a better opportunity than other markets to scalp their tickets to steal back some of the season ticket costs.
There's a lot of money in Toronto. That's about all I can say.
Which also begs the question, could as many people such as Vegas afford seasons if they kept all their tickets? Does that help perpetuate the problem?
Scalpers. FIFY.
They used to get dogs abuse on gameday. When it's online it's different, somehow.
Which also begs the question, could as many people such as Vegas afford seasons if they kept all their tickets? Does that help perpetuate the problem?
Also a lot of free tickets from god knows what companies aren't using them that night and get them from a friend or a friend of a friend. Just this week some kid at work is going to his first Leafs game for free. He doesn't even like hockey.
I know more people who go for free than I do who pay. I refuse to spend a penny on the Leafs but have been to 3 games in the last 10 years. One in a box which was pretty crap but nice for suits I suppose.
Know the right people at the right companies.
I work for a major bank in capital markets. I have had a VP come by my desk and give me tickets to a game that night because he was gifted even better seats. The seats he gave me were about 6 rows back from the glass in the lower corner. I can't imagine what better seats he was given, he must have been half on the bench at that point...
I genuinely wonder where the money comes from.
The other day I looked at TML ticket prices on a whim. You can't get in the door at ANY game for under $110/per, and it's more like $150 for most games. That's just the cheapest option to get in the door... we're talking $300 for a couple and $600 for a family, before adding parking/food/souvenirs. Pushing closer to $200 per person for one normal game, and that's the in-the-door price.
That compares incredibly unfavorably to almost any other entertainment option. Those are prices you expect to see for a major concert tour or a Broadway show that only comes to your city once a year, not for a sporting event that has 41 home dates. You can literally go to the Toronto Opera for half the price of going to a Leafs game... think about that discrepancy. They have entered a price tier that isn't even supported by an upper-class target market. The only way the pricing structure can make sense, is for corporations to buy the expensive tickets and for the rest to be treated as a re-sale investment by people with a lot of capital on their hands. Otherwise I can't see where a consistent market could exist for $200/person entry level pricing on seasonal entertainment.
IMO they are severely outrunning the market, as we have seen in other sports in recent years. The NHL has some cushion because of its affluent demographics, but I look at what happened to NASCAR and what is currently happening to the NFL where the presumption of infinite growth is grinding to a halt. The Rogers TV deal is a canary in the coal mine, as is the end of sellouts in formerly bulletproof markets -- and this is happening during a roaring economy.
There's a lot of money in Toronto. That's about all I can say.
I live in Toronto. My wife and I have a very good income. It's not a matter of us not being able to afford tickets. The issue is the tickets are so expensive that for a comparable price, there are simply better entertainment options.
Definitely, and good for the Leafs for tapping into it.
But this is the dynamic I find troubling . . .
When the economy tanks, yacht makers can make fewer yachts and Rolex can make fewer watches. But there will still be 20,000 seats in the arena, and leaving them empty has a cascading effect on the business model.
I wouldn't worry about it -- that's their problem.
It won't go that far.Until it leads to the business of the sport being broken.
When I was in school a friend had seasons tickets to the Leafs. His father owned one of the largest real estate development businesses in Canada.I agree with everything you said.
I live in Toronto. My wife and I have a very good income. It's not a matter of us not being able to afford tickets. The issue is the tickets are so expensive that for a comparable price, there are simply better entertainment options. For $120 I might get a single, crappy seat on a weeknight game against a mediocre opponent. For the same price, I can get great seats (or standing room) at a concert for a popular metal artist (Iron Maiden, Slayer, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath). For me, the latter is simply better value and more entertaining.
Seven regular season games for a couple would cost close to $2,500 for the year - again for lousy seats, and no playoff games. For only a bit more, we can do a nice vacation, like a week in New Orleans (that cost us about $3,500 a few years ago).
Speaking of corporations - I've gone to a few games over the past several years through work. It's a nice perk - I've seen more games through work over the past decade than I've paid for personally. I expect this trend wll continue. Maybe I'm getting my fix of live NHL through these games, but I'm not sure.
Some would say that these comments mean I'm not a true fan. I like to think of myself as a rational consumer. Seeing a game live is better than at a bar or from my couch, but it's (almost never) worth an extra $350.
When I was in school a friend had seasons tickets to the Leafs. His father owned one of the largest real estate development businesses in Canada.
The rest of us watched on TV.
For most people like me, I would rather go on a Caribbean vacation than pay what costs to attend a half dozen Leafs games.
Somehow, amazingly, the Leafs have managed to survive.
It won't go that far.
They will adjust prices in accordance with demand, just as the Toronto Blue Jays did when they tanked years ago -- $2 Tuesday-night tickets and $81 stand-by admission season passes etc. They had to reinvest in market development and it worked for them. Every sports franchise will find its own way.
In the meantime, I can't blame profitable franchises like the Leafs for making hay while the sun shines. They are in business, after all, and it would be just as much a problem if they charged so little that demand exceeds supply.
Scalpers. FIFY.
They used to get dogs abuse on gameday. When it's online it's different, somehow.
Which also begs the question, could as many people such as Vegas afford seasons if they kept all their tickets? Does that help perpetuate the problem?
Also a lot of free tickets from god knows what companies aren't using them that night and get them from a friend or a friend of a friend. Just this week some kid at work is going to his first Leafs game for free. He doesn't even like hockey.
I know more people who go for free than I do who pay. I refuse to spend a penny on the Leafs but have been to 3 games in the last 10 years. One in a box which was pretty crap but nice for suits I suppose.
I always wonder what the methodology for these surveys are because I would love to know where anyone is getting these numbers from a TML perspective.
Average ticket price is $130?
Looking on Ticketmaster the cheapest ticket I can find for a non resale ticket is $143 for the Wednesday Dec 4th game against the Avs. That is for a single ticket in the nosebleeds on a midweek game against a non conference opponent. To get four in a row in other other scenario would be exponentially more expensive
Beer for $9 at Scotiabank arena? Please someone show me where this hidden and magical concession stand is located!
Parking for $8 is probably the funniest part. Maybe if you park in Scarborough and take the TTC downtown. Parking in the area costs at least $15-20 during the business day and shoots up to $30-40 for anywhere within a couple blocks of the rink on any event night.