2019/20 Roster Thread XXVIII - Ghost could return 1/31; Braun could play 1/21; Hart Out 2-3 Weeks

[Rebels57]

Doesn’t have to but he’s a top 9 player and G looked good as a top 3 center.

I'd be all for Frost in the top 9, whether it be on wing or center, but I think it's Center or bust this season. I think they want him playing as much Center as possible this early in his career. His development is crucial for the next 10 years of this team.

 

[deadhead]

With him and Lindblom's future in the air, cap space for next year opened up, sadly enough. I originally thought JVR would be moved next summer with essentially Hayes replacing his money. But with P&O's issues, they might just keep JVR since both P&O likely get bridge deals....or just might get QO to keep their rights and then wait and see.

Obviously with Oskar, it's more about having a life than anything.

I think one thing driving all the "cameos" for LHV players is to gauge their progress and upside before making moves with long-term ramifications.
And I think the uncertainty surrounding Lindblom and Patrick will also cause Fletcher to proceed cautiously.

Right now the Flyers are basically a Hart away from being a top 8 team, when he takes the next step from meh starter to franchise goalie.
They're good enough to challenge anyone with good goalie play, but have no shot going deep into the playoffs with average goalie play.

Next season I think it's fair to expect both Frost and Farabee to be fixtures in the top 9.
G - Couts - Voracek
JVR - Frost - TK
Farabee - Hayes - NAK
Laughton - Raffl - Pitlick (if resigned)
Bunnaman/Rubtsov/Kase/Laczynski/Twarynski/Sushko, Vorobyev (as a winger)

 

[bobbythebrain]

Man, luckily for the Blues, they were smart enough to get Bozak and ROR as C's, and didn't have delusions of "blocking" Thomas, and Kyrou still can't crack the roster

Meanwhile in Philly...a bubble team...who lost 2 future franchise players...."blocking" Frost from playing C would be a boneheaded move, cuz apparently that's all he can play

 

[Beef Invictus]

Exactly one poster has proposed Ghost for Carter. But other posters start talking about "they."

IF the Flyers traded for Carter, doubt they'd give that much, Kings would like to move the contract.

Ghost, if he was traded (which I doubt), would more likely go to a playoff contender that needs a PP QB, that's his highest value given his contract and skill set, and would garner a pretty solid return.

Several posters have been trying to trade Ghost for absolutely bizarre returns for a couple years now. You're only just noticing it now with the Carter thing? It's just the most recent iteration.

 

[Tripod]

Exactly one poster has proposed Ghost for Carter. But other posters start talking about "they."

Yeah....and that silly poster also said they would go after Henrique and his 4.5 year $5.825 million dollar anchor.

Maybe that person has an agenda.

Doesn’t have to but he’s a top 9 player and G looked good as a top 3 center.

For 1 game.

The numbers suggest that Giroux is much better at W than at C now.

Giroux at W + Frost is WAY better than Giroux at C + Frost in minors(won't play wing) and whoever else at wing

I think one thing driving all the "cameos" for LHV players is to gauge their progress and upside before making moves with long-term ramifications.
And I think the uncertainty surrounding Lindblom and Patrick will also cause Fletcher to proceed cautiously.

Right now the Flyers are basically a Hart away from being a top 8 team, when he takes the next step from meh starter to franchise goalie.
They're good enough to challenge anyone with good goalie play, but have no shot going deep into the playoffs with average goalie play.

Next season I think it's fair to expect both Frost and Farabee to be fixtures in the top 9.
G - Couts - Voracek
JVR - Frost - TK
Farabee - Hayes - NAK
Laughton - Raffl - Pitlick (if resigned)
Bunnaman/Rubtsov/Kase/Laczynski/Twarynski/Sushko, Vorobyev (as a winger)

NAK should not be on the 3rd line. He is a good 4th line player. Pitlick should not be re-signed. What a difference if Patrick is healthy.

G - Couts - Voracek-great 2 way line
JVR - Frost - TK-sheltered scoring line
Farabee - Patrick - Hayes-new shutdown line
Laughton - Raffl - NAK-good 4th line

...and of course, adding Lindblom would be fantastic.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

They're good enough to challenge anyone with good goalie play, but have no shot going deep into the playoffs with average goalie play.

Then they're not a contender. It doesn't matter if it's the Flyers or any other team, if you must get amazing Goaltending, you're betting on something super volatile. Not where you want to be.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Can't see Fletch abandoning his plan with 30+ games left, and praying on Frost and LHV to bail him out

He set out to win big this year by blowing the cap on playoff talent, and players like Sanheim became collateral damage

whether you agree or not of the plan from the start, the cards have been played.

Making a trade at the TDL is very likely to happen

 

[deadhead]

Yeah....and that silly poster also said they would go after Henrique and his 4.5 year $5.825 million dollar anchor.

Maybe that person has an agenda.


For 1 game.

The numbers suggest that Giroux is much better at W than at C now.

Giroux at W + Frost is WAY better than Giroux at C + Frost in minors(won't play wing) and whoever else at wing

NAK should not be on the 3rd line. He is a good 4th line player. Pitlick should not be re-signed. What a difference if Patrick is healthy.

G - Couts - Voracek-great 2 way line
JVR - Frost - TK-sheltered scoring line
Farabee - Patrick - Hayes-new shutdown line
Laughton - Raffl - NAK-good 4th line

...and of course, adding Lindblom would be fantastic.

In the best of all possible worlds.
However, unless some of the LHV players I mentioned are ready, Flyers need to retain depth, losing two top young players has left a void.
If Hayes has to stay at center, then unless you sign Laczynski AND he's NHL top 9 ready, or someone else steps up, you need both a 3RW and 4 RW.

They'll get some cap relief unless they re-up Braun (that probably depends on Myers' progress this spring, if he steps up, they'd only bring Braun back as a cheap 3rd pair RD if they don't think Friedman is starter material).
Probably just enough to add a 3rd line type if needed.

Really comes down to the LHV players and how they progress this spring, if Bunnaman is a legitimate 4C it makes life easier. If Kase or Laberge can challenge for 3RW, if Rubtsov turns it around, etc.

Brink, York, JOB are at least another full season of college and maybe a half-year in the AHL away from starting in the NHL.
Zamula and Kalynuk are question marks, as are Allison and Laczynski.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Can't see Fletch abandoning his plan with 30+ games left, and praying on Frost and LHV to bail him out

He set out to win big this year by blowing the cap on playoff talent, and players like Sanheim became collateral damage

whether you agree or not of the plan from the start, the cards have been played.

Making a trade at the TDL is very likely to happen

it is going to have to be a hockey trade. Quite honestly with this roster it is robbing Peter to pay Paul in a deal like that. They can bring up Frost.
Patrick is obviously the wildcard.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Can't see Fletch abandoning his plan with 30+ games left, and praying on Frost and LHV to bail him out

He set out to win big this year by blowing the cap on playoff talent, and players like Sanheim became collateral damage

whether you agree or not of the plan from the start, the cards have been played.

Making a trade at the TDL is very likely to happen

I think if Fletch is so stubborn that he's still full speed ahead at making a run at any cost, then we have a major GM problem. Losing Patrick and Lindblom for the year are two huge blows on their own and should necessitate a hard re-assessment of what is possible. And we lack the cap space to replace them. The cap numbers are such that we cannot get full value for Ghost in a manner that helps the team now rather than in the future, because his cap efficiency means that anyone comparable coming back will cost more; and we can't do that. Trading Voracek would be insanity because we are gonna have to trade him for lesser players, which only worsens our missing top 6 talent situation. I guess there's JVR? But for who, and would we have to retain?

It grinds my gears to see another year of Giroux go by, but I struggle to think of moves we can make which give us a suitable shot without making future shots harder. I think Fletch might just have to rely on Frost and LHV to bail him out. Otherwise we are looking at horizontal or backwards steps.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Eh, I think most if not all GMs are stubborn in their own way.

 

[Starat327]

Man, luckily for the Blues, they were smart enough to get Bozak and ROR as C's, and didn't have delusions of "blocking" Thomas, and Kyrou still can't crack the roster

Meanwhile in Philly...a bubble team...who lost 2 future franchise players...."blocking" Frost from playing C would be a boneheaded move, cuz apparently that's all he can play

...can you tell me more about the franchise players we lost? Cause we have 2, and they're both still playing.

 

[Rebels57]

I think if Fletch is so stubborn that he's still full speed ahead at making a run at any cost, then we have a major GM problem. Losing Patrick and Lindblom for the year are two huge blows on their own and should necessitate a hard re-assessment of what is possible. And we lack the cap space to replace them. The cap numbers are such that we cannot get full value for Ghost in a manner that helps the team now rather than in the future, because his cap efficiency means that anyone comparable coming back will cost more; and we can't do that. Trading Voracek would be insanity because we are gonna have to trade him for lesser players, which only worsens our missing top 6 talent situation. I guess there's JVR? But for who, and would we have to retain?

It grinds my gears to see another year of Giroux go by, but I struggle to think of moves we can make which give us a suitable shot without making future shots harder. I think Fletch might just have to rely on Frost and LHV to bail him out. Otherwise we are looking at horizontal or backwards steps.

I think he will make a low cost gamble type of move. I don't see him going for a big name due to the injuries and he has said the same thing. Save the prime assets for next year when we are a fully healthy team (hopefully).

 

[Rebels57]

...can you tell me more about the franchise players we lost? Cause we have 2, and they're both still playing.

You may have been referring to Giroux and Voraek, but this is Couturier and Konecny's team now.

 

[Striiker]

Imagine thinking that coaches/GMs blocking superior players with inferior players isn't something that regularly happens.

I sure would love to give up assets for more bottom 6 guys to play over Frost.

 

[Starat327]

You may have been referring to Giroux and Voraek, but this is Couturier and Konecny's team now.

No, I was referring to G and Couturier. Maybe I'm misreading this, but they are the only franchise level talents this team has, currently. I've never viewed Voracek as a franchise level talent.

Even in the case of Couturier and Konecny, both are playing. The point I'm getting at is calling Lindblom and Patrick 'franchise' players I'd all but a little delusional. Or at least, that's what I assume he means.

 

[bobbythebrain]

...can you tell me more about the franchise players we lost? Cause we have 2, and they're both still playing.

I'm gonna assume the kid drafted 2nd OA and the 23 year old kid pacing for 60 points were part of the franchise moving forward.


But tell me more

 

[kudymen]

If we actually lost "2 future franchise players", then I somehow doubt pursuing a Bozak level player (per StL example above) does much for us.

 

[Striiker]

If we actually lost "2 future franchise players", then I somehow doubt pursuing a Bozak level player (per StL example above) does much for us.

If the Oilers adding Desharnais was a game changer then imagine what Bozak could do!

 

[Starat327]

I'm gonna assume the kid drafted 2nd OA and the 23 year old kid pacing for 60 points were part of the franchise moving forward.


But tell me more

Again, maybe I misunderstood what you meant, but your original wording of "franchise players" comes off as viewing them as 'franchise's players, like a Giroux, a Doughty, an Eichel, or something like that.

I think what you mean is we lost two 'core pieces', and that I would agree with. But noones building their franchise around a Nolan Patrick or an Oskar Lindblom. Franchise level players are a tier just below Generational-level players, and that ain't them.

 

[Rebels57]

I'm gonna assume the kid drafted 2nd OA and the 23 year old kid pacing for 60 points were part of the franchise moving forward.


But tell me more

You referred to them as franchise players. They are not that and neither have the potential/ceiling to be franchise players. They could be important parts of the future in the same way that Hornqivst was important to Pittsburgh and Eller was important to Washington. You need quality depth players, but quality depth players are not franchise players.

 

[Striiker]

You may have been referring to Giroux and Voraek, but this is Couturier and Konecny's team now.

Giroux and Voracek didn't get replaced, it's just that the other two are also key players.

All 4 are insane.

 

[deadhead]

Can't see Fletch abandoning his plan with 30+ games left, and praying on Frost and LHV to bail him out

He set out to win big this year by blowing the cap on playoff talent, and players like Sanheim became collateral damage

whether you agree or not of the plan from the start, the cards have been played.

Making a trade at the TDL is very likely to happen

I don't think he set out to win big, he didn't trade a single prospect, and the only significant draft pick was #41 for Braun (recouped during the draft).
I think Fletcher tried to reshape the team to fit AV's preferences, L/R defensive pairs for example.
I think the Hayes signing was driven by Patrick as much the desire to make the playoffs.

Fletcher has said he learned from his mistakes in Minnesota. We'll see.

 

[bobbythebrain]

I think if Fletch is so stubborn that he's still full speed ahead at making a run at any cost, then we have a major GM problem. Losing Patrick and Lindblom for the year are two huge blows on their own and should necessitate a hard re-assessment of what is possible. And we lack the cap space to replace them. The cap numbers are such that we cannot get full value for Ghost in a manner that helps the team now rather than in the future, because his cap efficiency means that anyone comparable coming back will cost more; and we can't do that. Trading Voracek would be insanity because we are gonna have to trade him for lesser players, which only worsens our missing top 6 talent situation. I guess there's JVR? But for who, and would we have to retain?

It grinds my gears to see another year of Giroux go by, but I struggle to think of moves we can make which give us a suitable shot without making future shots harder. I think Fletch might just have to rely on Frost and LHV to bail him out. Otherwise we are looking at horizontal or backwards steps.

Who says it has to be Ghost? And I highly doubt he is going to ship out a top 6 roster player to get another roster player

despite the love affair some have w/ Frost, he at this point in the season is NOT the answer to give this team the big push. I'm not saying he can't, but banking on it would be irresponsible for Fletch at this point, especially after his lukewarm showing earlier

7mil players can cost you 2mil or less at the TDL. Moving Laughts or Raffl in a package wouldn't be the first time a GM got inventive w/ the cap at the deadline

If Fletch makes a trade to upgrade the 3rd line at the TDL...it would be more than logical

 

[Striiker]

In the end, whatever Fletcher does is the right move and don't any of you fans dare doubt him.