2019-20 Roster Thread XI

[Outlaw Samurai]

There's a huge difference between hoping a player is ready and knowing a player is ready.

We don't know if Frost is ready for 3rd line duties, and he's a bad fit on the 4th line.
We'll get a better feel after TC.

Last year Hextall hoped Lyon was ready as an insurance policy for Elliott and Neuvirth, to buy time for Hart.
That got him fired.

That's not why he was fired.

 

[deadhead]

Flyers had the worst goaltending in the league the first half of the season, that was the primary reason for the slow start that got Hextall fired.

 

[lancer247]

When did so many of you guys get so afraid of prospects?

I also love the insinuation that preseason/camp is how you should earn a spot, not last seasons play. As if that large sample size isn't enough but a tiny sample size of practices and mixed scrimmages will be a better way to judge.

They're ready. Give them the spot.

Isn’t that what they did with Voyobev last season.
Don’t want garbage vets gifted a spot either. Hopefully, AV doesn’t have his own VDV or Lehtera. (Glass retired right?)

If there is a way to get a Donskoi type short term and fits the cap, that’s fine. If the young guys bust through than Laughton, Pitlick, Raffl and Donskoi or whoever have to earn their time or gets scratched or traded.

I think everybody would prefer the prospects to take a spot but let’s see what they do.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Isn’t that what they did with Vorobyev last season.

It was 15 games with barely any icetime. It was under Jeffrey ****ing Hakstok - remember him? The worst coach in NHL history?

The Pimp didn't do well, obviously, but how exactly was he supposed to with that dinosaur piece of ****? This narrative that he "had his chance and failed" needs to die in a white-hot fire so ****ing bad.

 

[TCTC]

When you want to win of course you spend to the cap. Especially when you have enough short term contracts on the team coming off the books in a year or two.

 

[Starat327]

When did so many of you guys get so afraid of prospects?

I also love the insinuation that preseason/camp is how you should earn a spot, not last seasons play. As if that large sample size isn't enough but a tiny sample size of practices and mixed scrimmages will be a better way to judge.

They're ready. Give them the spot.

Prospects = risky. 20 year old goalie with 30 games played = franchise.

 

[lancer247]

It was 15 games with barely any icetime. It was under Jeffrey ****ing Hakstok - remember him? The worst coach in NHL history?

The Pimp didn't do well, obviously, but how exactly was he supposed to with that dinosaur piece of ****? This narrative that he "had his chance and failed" needs to die in a white-hot fire so ****ing bad.

Obviously, he didn’t have the benefits of great line mates but he did nothing to show he was ready in either chance. I don’t care enough about Pimp either way. Point is, that’s why people are saying let’s have some solid plan Bs so if a young guy wins a spot early but can’t cut it during the season the team has better options than calling up guys like Knight.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Flyers had the worst goaltending in the league the first half of the season, that was the primary reason for the slow start that got Hextall fired.

I would put the Couturier injury under primary reasons too, but this is also why we divorce Skater and Goalie stats whenever possible.

Every problem wasn't Hakstol's fault. Everything won't be to Vigneault's fault/credit either. If Hart/Elliott play out of their mind, it's not necessarily proof of improved play from their Defensemen. Likewise their D could play lights out and the Goalies sink them. Evidence of all of these will be there if we just look before we make up our minds.

I should probably bookmark this to copy and paste because I know how it's going to go over if what I see is the Goalies covering up a world of hurt after 20 Games. It's nice to think that's a possibility for a change.

 

[Starat327]

I would put the Couturier injury under primary reasons, but this is also why we divorce Skater and Goalie stats whenever possible.

Every problem wasn't Hakstol's fault. Everything won't be to Vigneault's fault/credit either. If Hart/Elliott play out of their mind, it's not necessarily proof of improved play from their Defensemen. Likewise their D could play lights out and the Goalies sink them. Evidence of all of these will be there if we just look before we make up our minds.

I should probably bookmark this to copy and paste because I know how it's going to go over if what I see is the Goalies covering up a world of hurt after 20 Games.

Nonsense. The Brauntosaur will save us.

 

[deadhead]

I should probably bookmark this to copy and paste because I know how it's going to go over if what I see is the Goalies covering up a world of hurt after 20 Games. It's nice to think that's a possibility for a change.

You mean like when Hart came up, Elliott came back and the Flyers went on a winning streak for a month and everyone crowded about how firing Hakstol turned the team around?

Then the goalies and the team came back to earth and it became evident that Gordon wasn't the answer.

 

[BiggE]

GOAT match

His teeth shot through his cheek

Great spots, crappy match.

For great matches, you need to check out:

Steamboat vs Savage WM3
Flair vs Steamboat at the Chicago Streetfight
Bret Hart vs Owen Hart WM10
Austin vs Bret Hart WM13
Austin vs The Rock WM 17

 

[Starat327]

You mean like when Hart came up, Elliott came back and the Flyers went on a winning streak for a month and everyone crowded about how firing Hakstol turned the team around?

Then the goalies and the team came back to earth and it became evident that Gordon wasn't the answer.

From the get go, No one thought Gordon was the answer.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Obviously, he didn’t have the benefits of great line mates but he did nothing to show he was ready in either chance. I don’t care enough about Pimp either way. Point is, that’s why people are saying let’s have some solid plan Bs so if a young guy wins a spot early but can’t cut it during the season the team has better options than calling up guys like Knight.

Plan B is the upgrade in coaching - we have a(n allegedly) top-notch coaching staff now. In a salary-cap world, you can't have Plan B players sitting around like morning after pills in case one slips through. You draft good players, develop them, evaluate them, trust your evaluation, and let them play, communicating with them and coaching them up as they go.

There is no reason to be such cowards about this situation that we have half-assed options playing just in case the younger players aren't "ready." You can't keep them in the AHL like it's some sort of chrysalis until they are fully formed - it doesn't work that way. They have to play, and they can play their way into comfort at the NHL level. I'm not sure what kind of reasonable contention people think we are capable of this year, and Hakstok wasted 3 1/2 years that should have been free passes, but these kids have been marinating and are now on the cusp. Let them ****ing play and trust them, and HELP them. We are going to need them in two years when AV has worn out his welcome and we are ready to jettison all the Rangers he will have made us acquire.

Again - this happened for us, to great success, and that was 30 years ago, before there was ever a cap. If these coaches are worth their salt, there's nothing to worry about - the talent is there.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

You mean like when Hart came up, Elliott came back and the Flyers went on a winning streak for a month and everyone crowded about how firing Hakstol turned the team around?

Then the goalies and the team came back to earth and it became evident that Gordon wasn't the answer.

It was evident all along if you cared enough to look. I was as tired of Hakstol's particular brand of mediocrity as anyone else, but that doesn't change Gordon's incompetence.

Nonsense. The Brauntosaur will save us.

I'm most worried about Vigneault. I think people are expecting a certain type of hockey that was not what you got with the Rangers. Hopefully he's made adjustments and all will be right with the world.

 

[Starat327]

It was evident all along if you cared enough to look. I was as tired of Hakstol's particular brand of mediocrity as anyone else, but that doesn't change Gordon's incompetence.



I'm most worried about Vigneault. I think people are expecting a certain type of hockey that was not what you got with the Rangers. Hopefully he's made adjustments and all will be right with the world.

I think hell be better than what we've had, but I still have my doubts that hell be enough to get us past the first round. This teams play still ultimately depends on kids taking the next step more than anything.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

You mean like when Hart came up, Elliott came back and the Flyers went on a winning streak for a month and everyone crowded about how firing Hakstol turned the team around?

Then the goalies and the team came back to earth and it became evident that Gordon wasn't the answer.

Except for the small fact that that didn't happen. Everyone knew that Gordo was garbage, and you know that everyone knew that.

 

[BiggE]

I think signing a guy to be a 3rd line wing would be waste of cap dollars as I think Farabee is going to win that job. But if he doesn’t grab it right out of camp, there is still no reason to panic. They can move Laughton up to 3rd line at the start of the season and roll with any of the following to start the season as the 4th:

Raffl-Pitlick-NAK
Raffl-Vorobyev-Pitlick or NAK
Raffl-Rubtsov-Pitlick/NAK

If they want to add some depth by signing a 4th line guy to a one year deal at no more than 1 million, fine. Any more than that is unnecessary.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Nonsense. The Brauntosaur will save us.

 

[tucson83]

Plan B is the upgrade in coaching - we have a(n allegedly) top-notch coaching staff now. In a salary-cap world, you can't have Plan B players sitting around like morning after pills in case one slips through. You draft good players, develop them, evaluate them, trust your evaluation, and let them play, communicating with them and coaching them up as they go.

There is no reason to be such cowards about this situation that we have half-assed options playing just in case the younger players aren't "ready." You can't keep them in the AHL like it's some sort of chrysalis until they are fully formed - it doesn't work that way. They have to play, and they can play their way into comfort at the NHL level. I'm not sure what kind of reasonable contention people think we are capable of this year, and Hakstok wasted 3 1/2 years that should have been free passes, but these kids have been marinating and are now on the cusp. Let them ****ing play and trust them, and HELP them. We are going to need them in two years when AV has worn out his welcome and we are ready to jettison all the Rangers he will have made us acquire.

Again - this happened for us, to great success, and that was 30 years ago, before there was ever a cap. If these coaches are worth their salt, there's nothing to worry about - the talent is there.

how is putting the prospects in the ahl going to hurt their development? what's the point of having a minor league system?

 

[pit]

When you want to win of course you spend to the cap. Especially when you have enough short term contracts on the team coming off the books in a year or two.

It's not about cap space though. If you told me I could leave an opening for Farabee at 925k* or a filler FA at 800k, I would still advocate for seeing what our in-house option could do 10/10 times even if it means using more cap space.

It's about letting the prospects get experience and learning at an NHL level if they are ready for it.

If none of the prospects managed to earn that spot, then you make a trade or sign someone who hasn't caught on yet for the 4th line and bump up Laughton/Raffl.

*Farabee used for argument's sake and not advocating for him specifically. Could be Rubstov, Frost, etc.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

You mean like when Hart came up, Elliott came back and the Flyers went on a winning streak for a month and everyone crowded about how firing Hakstol turned the team around?

Then the goalies and the team came back to earth and it became evident that Gordon wasn't the answer.

Why was it Elliot was hurt again? Oh right, Honk overplayed him to death.

Who the hell claimed Gordo was good? Ghosts Beer liked him is all I can recall.

He was just less incompetent.

 

[Starat327]

how is putting the prospects in the ahl going to hurt their development? what's the point of having a minor league system?

Facing inferior competition that doesn't challenge you hurts development.

Whether or not that's the case with who were talking about can be up for debate, but if your skill level is above the people you are playing, your development could be easily stunted by not having any challenges.

 

[TCTC]

It's not about cap space though. If you told me I could leave an opening for Farabee at 925k* or a filler FA at 800k, I would still advocate for seeing what our in-house option could do 10/10 times even if it means using more cap space.

It's about letting the prospects get experience and learning at an NHL level if they are ready for it.

If none of the prospects managed to earn that spot, then you make a trade or sign someone who hasn't caught on yet for the 4th line and bump up Laughton/Raffl.

*Farabee used for argument's sake and not advocating for him specifically. Could be Rubstov, Frost, etc.

I agree that we shouldn't try to add a 3RW at all costs. But if there's an opportunity, a player that becomes available at reasonable costs on an expiring contract, we should definitely look at it. If we add someone, it should be someone who actually improves us, not just someone to fill a roster spot.

 

[FlyerNutter]

It’s partly about taking the temptation away from AV.

I don’t for a second believe (and this goes for many NHL coaches) that he won’t think long and hard about a kid vs a veteran simply because of intangibles or some nonsense about experience.

Believe in the kids. The development of Farabee/Frost is much more valuable to the long term success of this team than some overpay for a 3rd line veteran.

Dave Scott needs to get it out of his stupid head that this is one of the top clubs in the league ready to make a cup run.

 

[lancer247]

Plan B is the upgrade in coaching - we have a(n allegedly) top-notch coaching staff now. In a salary-cap world, you can't have Plan B players sitting around like morning after pills in case one slips through. You draft good players, develop them, evaluate them, trust your evaluation, and let them play, communicating with them and coaching them up as they go.

There is no reason to be such cowards about this situation that we have half-assed options playing just in case the younger players aren't "ready." You can't keep them in the AHL like it's some sort of chrysalis until they are fully formed - it doesn't work that way. They have to play, and they can play their way into comfort at the NHL level. I'm not sure what kind of reasonable contention people think we are capable of this year, and Hakstok wasted 3 1/2 years that should have been free passes, but these kids have been marinating and are now on the cusp. Let them ****ing play and trust them, and HELP them. We are going to need them in two years when AV has worn out his welcome and we are ready to jettison all the Rangers he will have made us acquire.

Again - this happened for us, to great success, and that was 30 years ago, before there was ever a cap. If these coaches are worth their salt, there's nothing to worry about - the talent is there.

How is wanting young players earn their keep cowardly. Saying, “hey, they have talent so let’s just roll with them” is foolish. Plan B - Laughton, Raffl, maybe NAK doesn’t effect the cap and is a better option than guys like VDV or Knight. Getting another Raffl type player/contract isn’t hurting your cap. Moving a contract like Hagg and acquiring a contract like Donskoi for example.
It s also not gifting a job to a kid when they may not be ready just because (paraphrasing) “we’re so enlightened and everyone that thinks otherwise is a scared old dinosaur.”