2019-20 Roster Thread VII

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deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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Do you really think Scott would dare override Fletcher and AV if they're on the same page?
Once that hit the local media, his bosses would want his head for that kind of PR gaffe.
Because it would be spun as it is, some idiot suit without a clue overriding two experienced NHL men.
 

JojoTheWhale

CORN BOY
May 22, 2008
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All assets are moveable, but people underestimate the value of #11, probably because they can't put a face on the pick right now.

Yep. Yet teams value the picks more before they're made because they retain optionality. It gets even more stark when you look at the kind of year a prospect has to have to return an equivalent first rounder the following year.

If you're Fletcher, Step 1 should be tiering up your draft board. Obviously we know the top 2 picks, but it's the availability of the next tier or two of players they think have a reasonable shot at first line/pair type careers that should determine if the pick is ultimately available. In this case, no one's draft board outside of the Flyers' matters.
 

Striiker

Earthquake Survivor
Jun 2, 2013
89,705
155,794
Pennsylvania
Ken Holland got a new job in a pressure cooker. Jim Benning exists. McPhee makes trades because he wakes up on the left side of the bed. Fenton is throwing darts. Jim Nill is bipolar. Pick any name you want in Ottawa for any Ottawa reason. Bob Murray could do anything at any time. Treliving's always open for business. Doug Wilson is in a key offseason. Poile seemingly needs to clear salary. Chayka's super hit and miss. Bergevin is bound to turn back into a pumpkin sooner or later.

If you can't fathom it, I don't think you're being fair. I don't think it's likely. I'm just not ready to take it to that degree.

I don’t doubt that there’s a ton of horrible GMs who can easily be ripped off.

I just don’t trust that Scott and Holmgren won’t push Fletcher to add his own name to that list. Their constant squawking about “needing” certain things is a terrible start.

The way you rip off those idiots is by getting a lot for a little... if we’re giving up a lot then I doubt we’re the ones coming out on top. Most likely way to get a steal is by taking a great depth piece that they undervalue, for cheap. None of those are worth the 11th and even those GMs are unlikely to be dumb enough to trade their star players, which is the only thing the 11th is worth.
 

rinaldo

Ignored Mmber
Apr 7, 2019
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I don’t doubt that there’s a ton of horrible GMs who can easily be ripped off.

I just don’t trust that Scott and Holmgren won’t push Fletcher to add his own name to that list. Their constant squawking about “needing” certain things is a terrible start.

The way you rip off those idiots is by getting a lot for a little... if we’re giving up a lot then I doubt we’re the ones coming out on top. Most likely way to get a steal is by taking a great depth piece that they undervalue, for cheap. None of those are worth the 11th and even those GMs are unlikely to be dumb enough to trade their star players, which is the only thing the 11th is worth.
the 11th is only worth star players (guess using the 11th to move up is also bad or move down). Can you please define your criteria for a star player.

The fact is this team does need certain "things".
 

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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It's not the "star" part that matters, it's asset value.

Building a roster is an exercise in multi-period constrained optimization, you have a salary cap, a limited number of draft picks, etc.
So you have to factor the value of the player, the fit of the player and the player's cap cost.

The most valued assets are quality versatile players with attractive contracts, that is, players who can fit multiple roles (increased optionality when adjusting to stochastic events, i.e. injuries) - ROR is a good example, so was Schenn, a D-man who's comfortable playing both sides, etc.

Players who are harder fits have less value (i.e. a player with significant value based on PP1 play, for example).
Players on one year contracts have limited value, you're only getting the one year, if you have to extend them at a cap hit above their value (pay UFA prices) then the extension has almost no trade value (you paid for it in salary).

The ED adds another element, adding a player you must protect means losing a higher quality player (because you're pushing a better player off the protected list island), so that loss of expected value should be factored in.

A good GM takes into account all these factors in deciding which players to trade for and how much to give.
#11 is ED exempt and cost controlled to some extent for possibly a decade (ELC, RFA contract below UFA rates).
You don't give an asset like that for a one year rental.
 

FlyerNutter

In the forest, a man learns what it means to live
Jun 22, 2018
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28,480
Winnipeg
This fascination with BiggE, and copying his avatar.

Going back to threatening the man personally, and others on HB is disturbing. Only to do it here as well...
 
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WestrnPhlyr

Go away or I shall taunt you a second time.
Jul 17, 2015
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Call me crazy, but I would prefer to keep all of our current players and see what they can do under an actual NHL coach with an actual NHL system.

If, after a few months, there are a few players who dont seem to fit AV's style then, and only then should the team start to look at potential moves.

At this point in time, the 11th OA should be the only piece in play and it would have to be for exactly what Fletch said. Young, cost controlled, fits a need, etc..

Oh, and the lunatics on the main trade boards are going to be pissed, as they always are, when their favorite trade asset does not garner near the haul they think. Always happens, always will.
 
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JojoTheWhale

CORN BOY
May 22, 2008
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I don’t doubt that there’s a ton of horrible GMs who can easily be ripped off.

I just don’t trust that Scott and Holmgren won’t push Fletcher to add his own name to that list. Their constant squawking about “needing” certain things is a terrible start.

The way you rip off those idiots is by getting a lot for a little... if we’re giving up a lot then I doubt we’re the ones coming out on top. Most likely way to get a steal is by taking a great depth piece that they undervalue, for cheap. None of those are worth the 11th and even those GMs are unlikely to be dumb enough to trade their star players, which is the only thing the 11th is worth.

Star is a tricky term. I’ll give you a name that is a star, does not have a star rep, and is of an ideal age, albeit with health concerns — Ondrej Kase.

If my docs gave the go-ahead and none of the guys I have rated reasonably likely first line/pair Forwards are there, I’m dancing in the street to get him for 11.
 

Alex91

Registered User
Sep 12, 2014
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ED wise, can you imagine if we trade our 11th for a D, plus Ghost regains his past self.

You could prob make a case to protect 1G 5D 3F lol
 

FlyerNutter

In the forest, a man learns what it means to live
Jun 22, 2018
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28,480
Winnipeg
Call me crazy, but I would prefer to keep all of our current players and see what they can do under an actual NHL coach with an actual NHL system.

If, after a few months, there are a few players who dont seem to fit AV's style then, and only then should the team start to look at potential moves.

At this point in time, the 11th OA should be the only piece in play and it would have to be for exactly what Fletch said. Young, cost controlled, fits a need, etc..

Oh, and the lunatics on the main trade boards are going to be pissed, as they always are, when their favorite trade asset does not garner near the haul they think. Always happens, always will.

I’m very in line with this kind of thinking. I know the team desperately wants to move forward but I am not of the belief that giving out stupid contracts just to sniff winning a playoff round is the right way to go.

It should be about the “right player”, and now just the prettiest available toy.

If a deal can be made with the 11 as a focal piece for a Spurgeon or Trouba I’m a 100% in, they are very good players.

I’m digging in more and more, leaning toward keeping the guys often mentioned in rumors.
 
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deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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Or we can just wait for his little brother to take the same jump by the end of the coming season.
David is similar in style, just has needed to fill out and get stronger.
 
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