2019-20 Coaching Discussion: The Jon Cooper Watch

[These Are The Days]

Babs has only ever worked well with stacked teams. I don't think he's going to Detroit. I think he's over-rated too, but he's a guy who can force an all star team to play like a machine, even if they don't want to. That's probably his biggest strength.

Yeah I'll never forget how much trouble the Wings gave us his last year. Holy hell I don't ever want to be on the receiving end of that again. We could use machine mentality right now

 

[These Are The Days]

I'm more looking at upcoming guys, but Ken Hitchcock could be a stop gap if TB wants a different approach. He's 67 years-old.

Can Ken Hitchcock’s style of play still be successful in the modern game of hockey?
NHL WHITEBOARD.: Systems Theory: Ken Hitchcock and the Nonstop Blues

Kenny needs to stay gone. This isn't the DPE anymore and there isn't a team stacked enough to run the system he wants and win the Cup. Unless you've got 5 HHOF (2 at forward 2 on defense 1 in net) you're not gonna get very far. It took Trotz idk how many years to finally win it for the Caps and given Kucherov and Stamkos' propensity for crapping out as soon as a series gets tight I don't want Kenny here. He was a great coach but that was for days gone by.

 

[Felonious Python]

Kenny needs to stay gone. This isn't the DPE anymore and there isn't a team stacked enough to run the system he wants and win the Cup. Unless you've got 5 HHOF (2 at forward 2 on defense 1 in net) you're not gonna get very far. It took Trotz idk how many years to finally win it for the Caps and given Kucherov and Stamkos' propensity for crapping out as soon as a series gets tight I don't want Kenny here. He was a great coach but that was for days gone by.

Hitch doesn't jump out at me, but coaches also develop, which Hitch has done in his career. It'd be a change for sure, but he did get the Blues to the WCF in 2016.

I'm not really in favor of firing Coop at the moment, but I work with what's in front of me.

AHL coaches outside the organization I like the track record of success of are Derek Laxdal and Mike Vellucci, although the latter just started with WBS.

edit: What about Michel Therrien? He's been out a few years, but he's got a good playoff record at .535% with similarly styled teams in Pittsburgh and Montreal. Finding coaches with playoff records above .500 in the modern era is pretty difficult.
NHL Coach Register | Hockey-Reference.com

It'd be a very different experience I'm sure.


another example of yelling at the room, not individuals

 

[DFC]

I don't think a rookie coach would work. The team needs to respect the guy from Day 1. You can't have a team like this thinking they know more than the coach.

 

[Felonious Python]

I don't think a rookie coach would work. The team needs to respect the guy from Day 1. You can't have a team like this thinking they know more than the coach.

Maybe not a baby faced youngster who never played in the show, but if the guy is like 50, I don't think it really matters. Laxdal and Vellucci are both 53. Groulx is 51.

They've ridden a lot of busses over the years and probably would call out the luxuries NHL stars take for granted. I mean, Laxdal also was the coach of the Idaho Steelheads. Those are not short trips out west, and they play a physical, taxing brand of hockey.

 

[These Are The Days]

MT has scared me off over the years. I always thought he got a bad rap for what went down in Pittsburgh but his tenure in Montreal proved to me exactly what people had been saying about him all along in that he is stubborn, picks favorites (his obsession with David Desharnais was something to behold) and I did not like how a once great power play just basically went to shit as soon as he came back and how over-reliant they were on Price.

I'm in favor of firing Cooper if I know the guy who replaces him can get it done. My preferences in no particular order is

Todd Richards -it's the logical choice in the interim and he's revived both our PK and PP in successive years... he's not an idiot
Mike Babcock if he's fired -I DO NOT like him but I do think he can win us a Cup
John Tortorella if he's fired -say what you want but the old SOB still has it

Honorable mention to Bruce Boudreau but the guy has choked so many game 7's and 3-2 leads it makes the Cooper/Stamkos/Kucherov era seem forgettable. That's a hard pass because our guys are tailor-made for him but I don't trust that we're gonna reach the promised land.

I will say I like his style



He did that with just enough venom to make you mad but he wasn't being a jerk either. How many times have our guys needed to hear this?

 

[These Are The Days]

I don't think a rookie coach would work. The team needs to respect the guy from Day 1. You can't have a team like this thinking they know more than the coach.

I'd be over the moon if we landed Sheldon Keefe but it's hard to argue with that.

 

[Fabiobest]

MT has scared me off over the years. I always thought he got a bad rap for what went down in Pittsburgh but his tenure in Montreal proved to me exactly what people had been saying about him all along in that he is stubborn, picks favorites (his obsession with David Desharnais was something to behold) and I did not like how a once great power play just basically went to **** as soon as he came back and how over-reliant they were on Price.

I'm in favor of firing Cooper if I know the guy who replaces him can get it done. My preferences in no particular order is

Todd Richards -it's the logical choice in the interim and he's revived both our PK and PP in successive years... he's not an idiot
Mike Babcock if he's fired -I DO NOT like him but I do think he can win us a Cup
John Tortorella if he's fired -say what you want but the old SOB still has it

Honorable mention to Bruce Boudreau but the guy has choked so many game 7's and 3-2 leads it makes the Cooper/Stamkos/Kucherov era seem forgettable. That's a hard pass because our guys are tailor-made for him but I don't trust that we're gonna reach the promised land.

I will say I like his style



He did that with just enough venom to make you mad but he wasn't being a jerk either. How many times have our guys needed to hear this?

I totally agree with that and I want that your sentence will be fixed at the beginning of this thread.
I'm not in the "Fire Cooper" train, but I can accept a change if, and only if, BriseBois will improve the coaching staff.
I mean: I don't want to see neither a big bet nor a rookie coach. Only because, in case, we don't need a coach like these ones.
A change makes sense only if the new HC will be better than the previous one.
I can unserstand your position about Babcock and I can understand also your position on Torts.
Those two coaches would be 2 nice solutions, imho.
Todd Richards is not an idiot. That's for sure. But also Cooper is not an idiot and that's for sure too.
But Richards could be a "change not to change". So I don't like too much this solution.

 

[Felonious Python]

Basically the logic of this thread:

Can't hire new coach: won't be respected.
Can't hire old coach: failed before.

 

[Todd1a]

Who cares who we get just get cooper out of the locker room! Richards, halpren, giroxl Or t Tex! Just get cooper out of there he has gone stale

 

[Todd1a]

I'd be over the moon if we landed Sheldon Keefe but it's hard to argue with that.

They should steal him from Toronto! Before they hire him to replace Babcock

 

[DFC]

Basically the logic of this thread:

Can't hire new coach: won't be respected.
Can't hire old coach: failed before.

I'm all for hiring an old coach. Particularly one who has no problem stepping on players' toes. I do think Babcock is over-rated, for instance, but I also think it would be his way or the highway, and I think our team needs that right now. His rocky relationship with Matthews is proof of it.

I don't think it would be all rosey, mind you. Kucherov would drive him nuts, but Point would be like the son he never had.

 

[Todd1a]

MT has scared me off over the years. I always thought he got a bad rap for what went down in Pittsburgh but his tenure in Montreal proved to me exactly what people had been saying about him all along in that he is stubborn, picks favorites (his obsession with David Desharnais was something to behold) and I did not like how a once great power play just basically went to **** as soon as he came back and how over-reliant they were on Price.

I'm in favor of firing Cooper if I know the guy who replaces him can get it done. My preferences in no particular order is

Todd Richards -it's the logical choice in the interim and he's revived both our PK and PP in successive years... he's not an idiot
Mike Babcock if he's fired -I DO NOT like him but I do think he can win us a Cup
John Tortorella if he's fired -say what you want but the old SOB still has it

Honorable mention to Bruce Boudreau but the guy has choked so many game 7's and 3-2 leads it makes the Cooper/Stamkos/Kucherov era seem forgettable. That's a hard pass because our guys are tailor-made for him but I don't trust that we're gonna reach the promised land.

I will say I like his style



He did that with just enough venom to make you mad but he wasn't being a jerk either. How many times have our guys needed to hear this?

Omg johnson and palat have only played under cooper in the pro,s they might cry if there talked to like that lol

 

[Todd1a]

Our dud

 

[These Are The Days]

I'm all for hiring an old coach. Particularly one who has no problem stepping on players' toes. I do think Babcock is over-rated, for instance, but I also think it would be his way or the highway, and I think our team needs that right now. His rocky relationship with Matthews is proof of it.

I don't think it would be all rosey, mind you. Kucherov would drive him nuts, but Point would be like the son he never had.

Ahh Matthews... The only thing more overrated than Babs. But I'll say this much. If Marty St. Louis and Torts can drive each other nuts and win a Cup I know Babs and Kucherov can. Stamkos I think is an "aw shucks" kind of person and won't cause any problems and can probably keep Kucherov on line.

If we crap out again I'm all for that kind of change

 

[Coopers Gum]

I'd love Torts on this team.

Also, my favorite hockey quote ever is by Boudreau. "If you want it, don't just THINK ya want it... go out and f***IN want it!"

 

[Maelmoor]

Wait are people seriously considering Hitch, Babs and Therrien as options? Why not bring Mike Keenan as well into the mixture then?

 

[CupsOverCash]

Wait are people seriously considering Hitch, Babs and Therrien as options? Why not bring Mike Keenan as well into the mixture then?

Its going to be up and down all year until either thing happens. Coop gets fired or he wins the cup with this team. The only thing that really matters to me and all Lightning fans is the latter. I dont care if its Barney the Dinosaur coaching this team as long as he brings home the prize...

With that said, I hope the road gets smoother. Meaning I hope the team plays better overall hockey. I think the fanbase and myself would like to see wholesome efforts this year and isnt just getting by on the skill the team has. I think the days of getting a quick few goals and then coasting the rest of the game is actually really boring to watch. Even though the team won a ton of games last year, it wasnt an overly exciting season hockey wise. I think if they play better overall hockey, games should be more fun this year. However, if it means a repeat of last year as far as winning goes but we win the cup too, Ill take that. Either way, just give me the cup!!

 

[DFC]

Wait are people seriously considering Hitch, Babs and Therrien as options? Why not bring Mike Keenan as well into the mixture then?

We're talking about coaches who've won cups, rather than just lots of regular season games.

I think Babcock would work well here. His Wings and Ducks teams had tons of stars, but they played like machines. I think that would help a lot here. And the room would respect him immediately. Let's not forget he coached a vastly inferior Wings team to 7 games against us in 2015. I'd rather have him than a rookie coach.

 

[Todd1a]

We're talking about coaches who've won cups, rather than just lots of regular season games.

I think Babcock would work well here. His Wings and Ducks teams had tons of stars, but they played like machines. I think that would help a lot here. And the room would respect him immediately. Let's not forget he coached a vastly inferior Wings team to 7 games against us in 2015. I'd rather have him than a rookie coach.

Kucherov would hate Babcock and probably demand a trade

 

[Master P]

You know, to be fair to Cooper. Maybe its not JUST the coaching thats the issue. Maybe there needs to be some significant changes to the roster.

 

[Felonious Python]

We could confuse the casuals by hiring John Gruden away from the Islanders.

 

[Felonious Python]

If new coaches are out and old coaches are out, I guess that leaves NHL assistants.

John Gruden legitimately wouldn't be a terrible choice. Lane Lambert was interviewed for the Ducks job.

It's tough to tell who would actually be in the conversation without the media talking, and over the past few years old NHL head coaches have become increasingly common assistant coach hires.

Todd Nelson possibly, although he's an old coach now having 46 games with the Oilers. Maybe Mike van Ryn once he gets some more experience.

 

[CupsOverCash]

You know, to be fair to Cooper. Maybe its not JUST the coaching thats the issue. Maybe there needs to be some significant changes to the roster.

The argument is that it's easier to change the HC than the roster. Which is true. SY and JBB did well on term but they also gave out NTC like candy. A compromise that many outside of TB care to think or know about when it comes to TB contracts, but I digress.

I think your argument could definitely be made. Maybe the guys in there arent tough enough mentally to change things up on their own when things aren't working. I mean Coop and the GM arent really able to threaten much with the NTC but he could bench players and I think that could ruffle things up and maybe just maybe is the kind of attitude our HC needs to have. So I dont think you are off in your comments but I think the HC change could spark something with who we have now too. Like I said above, dont care if its Coop or someone else. Just bring it home.

 

[Felonious Python]

The argument is that it's easier to change the HC than the roster. Which is true. SY and JBB did well on term but they also gave out NTC like candy. A compromise that many outside of TB care to think or know about when it comes to TB contracts, but I digress.

I think your argument could definitely be made. Maybe the guys in there arent tough enough mentally to change things up on their own when things aren't working. I mean Coop and the GM arent really able to threaten much with the NTC but he could bench players and I think that could ruffle things up and maybe just maybe is the kind of attitude our HC needs to have. So I dont think you are off in your comments but I think the HC change could spark something with who we have now too. Like I said above, dont care if its Coop or someone else. Just bring it home.

Something that gives coaches a boost when they take over a team is that they're pretty cutthroat with their new roster. That always seems to fade as they grow attached to players although a coach could go out of their comfort zone to get back to that. If you're not out of your comfort zone, you're not growing and all that.

Coop can't trade a guy anyway so the only mechanism he really has is to mess with their playing time and deployment.

I prefer the NHL system of having the GM and Coach be different people, but having someone in the dual role like in the lower minors and junior leagues maybe allows them to compartmentalize better.