2018 Selke Winner - Anze Kopitar

[Rebels57]

Lol nice name

Its an unhealthy obsession.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

I don't understand this stance. You know, I know, and everyone knows it's not just about defense. This kind of weak argument is like seeing a defenseman lightly crosscheck a forward in front of the net and going nuts while reading the definition of a crosscheck. Stop pretending like a 40 point 3rd line shutdown center is ever going to win the Selke.

so who are all these specialist 3rd line shutdown centers that are being ignored?

why do people still act like that is a player type that exists in today's NHL? Guess what, the best defensive forwards are top 6 players now, get with the times.

 

[member 88115]

Very well deserved. Kopi was a great offensively, but his priority was D and went head to head with best all and every game, while being the best PK and PP. He was one of the main reasons why LA had the best GAA.

When the Bruins were winning their Cups, Bergeron was head and shoulders better than Kopitar and Co. But since 2012 Kopitar has surpassed Berg (who i think lost a little of his top end instinct from his Cup runs, even though he is still one of the best). Barkov and Couturier have the potential, but are not their yet.

 

[StoneHands]

You obviously haven't followed the NHL long enough. Originally it was awarded to players that were defensive specialists. Remember Bob Gainey. Somehow the award seems to now be awarded for the best 2way player instead.
Maybe do some research first before spouting off.

I've been following the NHL for a long time and you and I both know that things change. I don't really care what kind of player won the award 30 years ago and I don't really know why you think that's relevant today. The days of players winning purely based on defense are over. Keep hanging on to the past to make a point.

so who are all these specialist 3rd line shutdown centers that are being ignored?

why do people still act like that is a player type that exists in today's NHL? Guess what, the best defensive forwards are top 6 players now, get with the times.

I never said 3rd line shutdown centers are being ignored, I was saying the days of those kind of players getting recognition are over. There's a reason why Couturier finished 2nd this year and his highest previous finish was 8th though this probably wasn't Couturier's most impressive season from a purely defensive standpoint. Then you look at guys like Kesler who have been around forever. He's been a Selke Finalist 5 times in his 13 year career. Is it just a coincidence that the 5 times he was a finalist were also his 5 highest scoring seasons, in order? His Selke win was his best offensive season, his two 2nd place finishes were his 2nd and 3rd best offensive seasons and his two 3rd place finishes were his 4th and 5th best offensive seasons. Any time he's been under 50 points he hasn't been a finalist. I highly doubt he just forgot how to play good defense those years. Kopitar won it this year with 92 points and and 2 years ago with 74 points. last year he barely got any votes and finished 15th while scoring 52 points. Did he take the year off from defense? my point is, the award specifically since the lockout, has been purely the best two-way player. People need to get used to that and stop pretending like offense doesn't matter.

 

[Espresso Martini]

Very well deserved. Kopi was a great offensively, but his priority was D and went head to head with best all and every game, while being the best PK and PP. He was one of the main reasons why LA had the best GAA.

When the Bruins were winning their Cups, Bergeron was head and shoulders better than Kopitar and Co. But since 2012 Kopitar has surpassed Berg (who i think lost a little of his top end instinct from his Cup runs, even though he is still one of the best). Barkov and Couturier have the potential, but are not their yet.

As a Bruins fan, I don't agree at all with your statement. Not taking anything away from Kopitar but your statement about Bergeron losing his top end instinct is just not true.

 

[PB37]

[mod] Kopitar is equal to Bergeron defensively maybe just a little bit worse. But head and shoulders above offensively.

Bergeron just set an NHL record for 7th straight year as a Selke finalist. Kopitar finished 15th last year in voting. Equal my ass.

Kopitar deserved it this year and he won on games played, not because of offense like your comment made earlier.

 

[Sol]

Bergeron just set an NHL record for 7th straight year as a Selke finalist. Kopitar finished 15th last year in voting. Equal my ass.

Kopitar deserved it this year and he won on games played, not because of offense like your idiotic comment made earlier.

When he hits PPG for once in his career lemme know.

Never said he isn't good at defense. Offense on the other hand Kopitar has handedly outperformed him.

 

[redcard]

When he hits PPG for once in his career lemme know.

We can finally use this one!

 

[Little Psycho]

We can finally use this one!

 

[PB37]

When he hits PPG for once in his career lemme know.

Never said he isn't good at defense. Offense on the other hand Kopitar has handedly outperformed him.

Nahh, you just said they were equal defensively, which they really aren't. When Kopitar hits 7 straight selke finalist nominations, let me know!

 

[1865]

Bergeron just set an NHL record for 7th straight year as a Selke finalist. Kopitar finished 15th last year in voting. Equal my ass.

Kopitar deserved it this year and he won on games played, not because of offense like your idiotic comment made earlier.

You’re not taking this defeat very well are you?

 

[TheKingPin]

No way Bergeron wins it after getting undressed by Konecny. Haha jk.

All of these players are standout, including Barkov. Congrats to coots to being named among them! Next year I think he could win it.

 

[maacoshark]

I've been following the NHL for a long time and you and I both know that things change. I don't really care what kind of player won the award 30 years ago and I don't really know why you think that's relevant today. The days of players winning purely based on defense are over. Keep hanging on to the past to make a point.


I never said 3rd line shutdown centers are being ignored, I was saying the days of those kind of players getting recognition are over. There's a reason why Couturier finished 2nd this year and his highest previous finish was 8th though this probably wasn't Couturier's most impressive season from a purely defensive standpoint. Then you look at guys like Kesler who have been around forever. He's been a Selke Finalist 5 times in his 13 year career. Is it just a coincidence that the 5 times he was a finalist were also his 5 highest scoring seasons, in order? His Selke win was his best offensive season, his two 2nd place finishes were his 2nd and 3rd best offensive seasons and his two 3rd place finishes were his 4th and 5th best offensive seasons. Any time he's been under 50 points he hasn't been a finalist. I highly doubt he just forgot how to play good defense those years. Kopitar won it this year with 92 points and and 2 years ago with 74 points. last year he barely got any votes and finished 15th while scoring 52 points. Did he take the year off from defense? my point is, the award specifically since the lockout, has been purely the best two-way player. People need to get used to that and stop pretending like offense doesn't matter.

The point is that the Selke is an award for best an award for best defensive forward.
No one is saying that offense isn't important but it should have nothing to do with this award. Maybe they should change the criteria for this award.
Bottom line is that this is a DEFENSIVE AWARD.

 

[NDiesel]

When he hits PPG for once in his career lemme know.

Never said he isn't good at defense. Offense on the other hand Kopitar has handedly outperformed him.

I'm not here to argue that Kopitar isn't better offensively, but headedly? His .89 PPG vs. Bergeron's .76? That equates to a whole 72 points vs. 62 points in an 82 game season, hardly as far away as you want to make it seem.

Back to the topic, Kopitar is definitely worthy this year, my vote may have actually been Couturier, but Kopitar is my favourite non-Bruin so I am ecstatic to see him get one. Hopefully Bergeron stays healthy enough to break the record next year.

 

[NDiesel]

The point is that the Selke is an award for best an award for best defensive forward.
No one is saying that offense isn't important but it should have nothing to do with this award. Maybe they should change the criteria for this award.
Bottom line is that this is a DEFENSIVE AWARD.

So that's a fair argument, but question: Who are the low offensive number guys that you think should have been nominated over Kopitar, Couturier, Bergeron?

 

[StoneHands]

The point is that the Selke is an award for best an award for best defensive forward.
No one is saying that offense isn't important but it should have nothing to do with this award. Maybe they should change the criteria for this award.
Bottom line is that this is a DEFENSIVE AWARD.

I think the problem is, what is defined as the best defensive forward? To me, a guy who is good at blocking shots and sticking to a man in his own zone is less valuable than a guy who picks off a D to D pass and takes it the other way for a goal. I'm not saying they should vote for Ovechkin based on "the best defense is a good offense" but there's something to be said for a guy who can safely get the puck out of his own zone and then pin the opposition in their zone. Defense doesn't have to be just in the defensive zone. Breaking up outlet passes and cutting off breakouts before they start is playing defense, it just happens to be in the offensive or neutral zone.

Defense is pretty hard to measure and there are a lot of players who are on a very similar defensive level so the only way to really differentiate is by saying "both of these guys are great in their own zone but player A is able to translate that defense into goals better". I just look at it like, are the 3 finalist really not 3 of the absolute best defensive forwards in the NHL? Despite playing the other teams top lines every game, they're all among the best +/- on their respective teams (all 3 are +21 or higher) and they're all among the best possession players on their teams. All 3 are also primary PKers playing ~3:00 a game. And to top it off they can also translate that defense into goals going the other way. Gone are the days of bruisers who are out there with no goal but to stop the opponent from scoring. Today the best defensive players are also guys who can score and that's not a bad thing.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

Bergeron just set an NHL record for 7th straight year as a Selke finalist. Kopitar finished 15th last year in voting. Equal my ass.

Kopitar deserved it this year and he won on games played, not because of offense like your comment made earlier.

Now while I agree Bergy is better, Kopitar being 15th in last years voting doesn't say much

 

[Stizzle]

 

[PAZ]

The Selke award is for the player who displays the best defensive skill over a season, not who's the best defensive player.

Was it not you who said that being healthy is a talent? You've spent years saying that Crosby can't be the best, because his missed games work against him. Why the sudden change? Bergeron only played 64 games

I like how @PatriceBergeronFan posted later on in this thread, but conveniently seems to have missed this comment.

 

[redcard]

Those stats are all relative to teammates. They aren't on the same team. If your teammates suck, your rel stats look better.

 

[Sombastate]

Do these same people also cut out of work at 3pm every day to get home and ignore their families to watch East coast games that start at 4pm?

My girlfriend can certainly attest to the fact that I 100% do this. I would be blown away if she isn't having an affair.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Those stats are all relative to teammates. They aren't on the same team. If your teammates suck, your rel stats look better.

Kings fans can't even get out of one offseason without a "KARLSSON WUZ ROBBED"-esque slander campaign directed at one of their players where the opposition doesn't even bother to try to understand what the winner does well.

Looking forward to next year's "Kopitar iz overrated, only one good seazon" threads already.

 

[joe dirte]

Those stats are all relative to teammates. They aren't on the same team. If your teammates suck, your rel stats look better.

Methinks yes needs to dig avlittle deeper on his research.

It drives me nuts when people quote relative stats without realizing they don't level the playing field from raw stats, they just use a different set of players as a benchmark.

 

[Sasso09]

I have no problem with Kopitar winning it, he's the best overall player of the 4 top choices. . But defensively alone, he did not have a selke worthy season. Well behind Couturier and Bergeron, significantly behind Barkov.


Couturier was Robbed based on how the award should be given.

Couturier
Bergeron

Barkov

Kopitar.


Rest of the league

 

[FinlandPanther]

I have no problem with Kopitar winning it, he's the best overall player of the 4 top choices. . But defensively alone, he did not have a selke worthy season. Well behind Couturier and Bergeron, significantly behind Barkov.


Couturier was Robbed based on how the award should be given.

Couturier
Bergeron

Barkov

Kopitar.


Rest of the league

Nope.