Prospect Info: 2018 OHL Prospects Review

[Brock]

My annual review of St. Louis' OHL prospects.

OHL Prospects: 31 Teams in 31 Days - St. Louis Blues

Happy to answer any questions.

Click to read more...

 

[Chief Steele]

My annual review of St. Louis' OHL prospects.

OHL Prospects: 31 Teams in 31 Days - St. Louis Blues

Happy to answer any questions.

My big question is does Torp go back to the OHL or will they send him to Rampage?

 

[Majorityof1]

Good write-up. Thanks.

My question is based on this sentence in the Kyrou write-up: "We saw him improve his points per game average by 50 points". 50 points PER GAME?!?!?! Is that some sort of record?

Ok, just kidding, but did want to point that out for you to do a stealth edit.

 

[simon IC]

Nice write-up. Thank you, much appreciated!

 

[simon IC]

Uuuum..... who and what is a Tyler Tucker, and when did we draft him? EDIT ...NM. I forgot about this selection. (never mind the old guy!)

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

I’m definitely intrigued with Tucker

 

[Dbrownss]

Great write up as usual.

 

[Brock]

My big question is does Torp go back to the OHL or will they send him to Rampage?

Possible, but very unlikely IMO. Guelph chose not to select any players in this year's Import Draft. NHL teams usually keep CHL teams in the loop as per their intentions with Import players. And if there's any chance, OHL teams usually will cover their bases by selecting an additional player in the Import Draft (so long as one of the Imports has an NHL deal, is an NHL first rounder, or is a pending Overager....complicated I know).

Here's the Guelph Storm's head beat writer on the subject.

 

[Brock]

Good write-up. Thanks.

My question is based on this sentence in the Kyrou write-up: "We saw him improve his points per game average by 50 points". 50 points PER GAME?!?!?! Is that some sort of record?

Ok, just kidding, but did want to point that out for you to do a stealth edit.

I suppose it's just how I would refer to it. His points per game average increased from 1.42 to 1.95. You don't often hear anyone say...his ppg average increased by 0.50 points. Often reffered to as whole numbers. Ditto for something like baseball where batting averages are talked about similarly. "Player x has increased their batting average by 10 points in the last two weeks."

Apples to apples I suppose.

 

[Dbrownss]

@Brock what do you feel the ceilings are for Thomas and Kyrou?

From listening to scouts, Thomas is viewed as a top line center prospect...not elite in the sense of ppg production but north of 60pt all situations production.

With Kyrou, it's more of a high end elite potential but more has to go right for him. With his 2 way games, I've seen him described as a capable 2 way winger..... really conflicting reports with him. Nothing too consensus other then his high ceiling

 

[Brock]

@Brock what do you feel the ceilings are for Thomas and Kyrou?

From listening to scouts, Thomas is viewed as a top line center prospect...not elite in the sense of ppg production but north of 60pt all situations production.

With Kyrou, it's more of a high end elite potential but more has to go right for him. With his 2 way games, I've seen him described as a capable 2 way winger..... really conflicting reports with him. Nothing too consensus other then his high ceiling

I would actually say that both have extremely high ceilings as NHL players. In a perfect world, both could be first line players. Thomas is the much safer bet because of how well rounded his game is and because of how high his hockey sense is. Where as Kyrou is the electric offensive sparkplug. I don't ever see him developing into a terrific two-way player to be honest. So it will be as a top 6 player or not at all IMO. But I have a hard time seeing him not succeeding. Both are nearly as good as it gets, although as very different players. Think of Thomas as a Paul Stastny type, where as Kyrou could be that Martin St. Louis, Daniel Briere type.

 

[Majorityof1]

I suppose it's just how I would refer to it. His points per game average increased from 1.42 to 1.95. You don't often hear anyone say...his ppg average increased by 0.50 points. Often reffered to as whole numbers. Ditto for something like baseball where batting averages are talked about similarly. "Player x has increased their batting average by 10 points in the last two weeks."

Apples to apples I suppose.

Ah, I see. I have never heard it expressed like that in hockey. I think its more confusing in hockey because the term used as the numerator is also called points. So 1.0 is a full point (per game) but would also be 100 points. .50 is a half a point per game but also 50 points? Thats just confusing to me. In baseball there is no confusion because the numerator is hits. Hits/at-bats. If you said, he increased his batting average by 10 hits then it would be confusing. Did he get 10 more hits or did he raise his average by 10 hits per thousand? Anyway, its a small quibble.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

I would actually say that both have extremely high ceilings as NHL players. In a perfect world, both could be first line players. Thomas is the much safer bet because of how well rounded his game is and because of how high his hockey sense is. Where as Kyrou is the electric offensive sparkplug. I don't ever see him developing into a terrific two-way player to be honest. So it will be as a top 6 player or not at all IMO. But I have a hard time seeing him not succeeding. Both are nearly as good as it gets, although as very different players. Think of Thomas as a Paul Stastny type, where as Kyrou could be that Martin St. Louis, Daniel Briere type.

Not that they would turn into the same players, but I saw them as a Toews, Kane combination where the winger is much more powerful on offense, and the center isn't a PPG center, but a solid, 2 way center, with some scoring touch and leadership capabilities.

 

[stl76]

I would actually say that both have extremely high ceilings as NHL players. In a perfect world, both could be first line players. Thomas is the much safer bet because of how well rounded his game is and because of how high his hockey sense is. Where as Kyrou is the electric offensive sparkplug. I don't ever see him developing into a terrific two-way player to be honest. So it will be as a top 6 player or not at all IMO. But I have a hard time seeing him not succeeding. Both are nearly as good as it gets, although as very different players. Think of Thomas as a Paul Stastny type, where as Kyrou could be that Martin St. Louis, Daniel Briere type.

I have yet to see an NHL comparison for Kyrou that really fits IMO.

Briere's playoff performances really stand out in my memory, and Kyrou's have been a bit disappointing so far TBH. You addressed this a bit in your post chalking it up to bad luck and lack of support/frustration/etc...how concerned are you moving forward about Kyrou's past playoff performances?

One of my big concerns with Kyrou is his shot, and guys like MSL or Panarin (another guy I've seen Kyrou compared to) had/have shots that are light years ahead of Kyrou's IMO. Should I be less concerned about Kyrou's shot? Do you think his shot is good enough to consistently beat AHL or NHL goalies clean?

Thank you for the write up, Brock. Appreciate the work you put into these.

 

[Dbrownss]

I have yet to see an NHL comparison for Kyrou that really fits IMO.

Briere's playoff performances really stand out in my memory, and Kyrou's have been a bit disappointing so far TBH. You addressed this a bit in your post chalking it up to bad luck and lack of support/frustration/etc...how concerned are you moving forward about Kyrou's past playoff performances?

One of my big concerns with Kyrou is his shot, and guys like MSL or Panarin (another guy I've seen Kyrou compared to) had/have shots that are light years ahead of Kyrou's IMO. Should I be less concerned about Kyrou's shot? Do you think his shot is good enough to consistently beat AHL or NHL goalies clean?

Thank you for the write up, Brock. Appreciate the work you put into these.

Too much is made of his shot. Not everyone has to have a 90mph wrist shot. Look at guys with less then powerful shots. Johnny Gaudreau and McDavid for example. If you can utilize your assets you can beat goalies with your hands and edgework. Two things Kyrou has in spades.

 

[Brock]

I have yet to see an NHL comparison for Kyrou that really fits IMO.

Briere's playoff performances really stand out in my memory, and Kyrou's have been a bit disappointing so far TBH. You addressed this a bit in your post chalking it up to bad luck and lack of support/frustration/etc...how concerned are you moving forward about Kyrou's past playoff performances?

One of my big concerns with Kyrou is his shot, and guys like MSL or Panarin (another guy I've seen Kyrou compared to) had/have shots that are light years ahead of Kyrou's IMO. Should I be less concerned about Kyrou's shot? Do you think his shot is good enough to consistently beat AHL or NHL goalies clean?

Thank you for the write up, Brock. Appreciate the work you put into these.

That's generally why I'm not a big fan of comparisons and why I don't make them a lot in my reports. Very rare to have that "perfect match."

Regarding his previous playoff performances. Not sure we can really go off previous years. In 2017, for example, the Sting were matched up against Erie in round one, the eventual OHL Champions. Not much chance there for Kyrou as the Sting were completely outclassed.

This year though, he just wasn't on his game and Sarnia (as a team) were a major disappointment. It wasn't just Kyrou. It was nearly all the teams star players, especially ones that the team brought in. Adam Ruzicka, 0 goals. Jonathan Ang, 2 goals. Cam Dineen, 1 goal. Michael Pezzetta, 1 goal. I saw several of Sarnia's playoff games and Kyrou got very little help. Now, as I said, frustration was evident in his game. Turnovers that he normally doesn't commit in the offensive end. He was clearly pressing. What that means for his NHL future? I don't think it's extremely alarming. He was a standout at the WJC's this year, which is about as pressure packed as you can get.

As for his shot, it's certainly not elite. But it's not bad either. As @Dbrownss said, not every player has to have a shot pushing triple digits to be effective. Kyrou has a good release, and when you combine that with his mobility, he'll be able to beat pro netminders. Now, do I expect him to be a 50 goal scorer? No. He's probably always the type that will have more assists. But there's no reason to suggest that Kyrou couldn't be a consistent 30/50 guy at the upper range of his ceiling.

 

[JoshFromMO]

Too much is made of his shot. Not everyone has to have a 90mph wrist shot. Look at guys with less then powerful shots. Johnny Gaudreau and McDavid for example. If you can utilize your assets you can beat goalies with your hands and edgework. Two things Kyrou has in spades.

I think maybe it was Mike Smith that said something along the lines of the slow and accurate shots are harder to save than the rockets that fly top shelf and Brock Boesser is one of the best at that right now.

 

[Dbrownss]

I think maybe it was Mike Smith that said something along the lines of the slow and accurate shots are harder to save than the rockets that fly top shelf and Brock Boesser is one of the best at that right now.

Not disagreeing, but Boesser has a rocket for shot? It's just pin point accurate.

Even if we concede and say Kyrou has a weak shot....its not something that cant and wont improve. That's why I like comparing to Johnny Gaudreau, he's tiny and doesn't have a hard shot, but its quick and accurate. Couple that with his edge work, and you have a guy who can score at the NHL level

 

[Robb_K]

@Brock what do you feel the ceilings are for Thomas and Kyrou?

From listening to scouts, Thomas is viewed as a top line center prospect...not elite in the sense of ppg production but north of 60pt all situations production.

With Kyrou, it's more of a high end elite potential but more has to go right for him. With his 2 way games, I've seen him described as a capable 2 way winger..... really conflicting reports with him. Nothing too consensus other then his high ceiling

Being a "capable 2-way player" on The OHL level does NOT guarantee that he'll start out that way, or even become one in The AHL, or NHL at his start, or even eventually. It's clear to me that he DOES play some defence, and its quality is "passable" in general, and even "good" at times, on The OHL level. But, it's also clear to me, that like ALL Juniors, he'll have a period adjusting on defence, to the pro game (and from the AHL game, to The NHL game.

Thomas, on the other hand, had an "excellent" 2-way game for The Junior level (and OHL is most difficult). So, that, along with his excellent play without the puck, is why most observers expect him to make The Blues' opening day roster, outright, and many expect him to stay with the team all season. On the other hand, they expect Kyrou to play at least 25-30 games in The AHL, and possibly all season long (other than a short "trial", because of his need to develop a "pro-level" defensive game.

Capability levels at different levels of the game, have different levels of meaning. Thomas' 2-way "competence" is 2 levels above Kyrou's, in my view. Therefore, he is expected to be ready to play in The NHL, without being a risk to the team's overall defence, whereas, Kyrou's level of competence in that area IS expected to be a glaring weak link in team defence for his 5-man shift. Therefore, it is thought by most, that he'll need something like at least 1/3 season in The AHL, to develop mastery of a pro-level defensive game (awareness, reaction, reading plays, knowing what to do instinctively, etc.).

 

[Dbrownss]

Being a "capable 2-way player" on The OHL level does NOT guarantee that he'll start out that way, or even become one in The AHL, or NHL at his start, or even eventually. It's clear to me that he DOES play some defence, and its quality is "passable" in general, and even "good" at times, on The OHL level. But, it's also clear to me, that like ALL Juniors, he'll have a period adjusting on defence, to the pro game (and from the AHL game, to The NHL game.

Thomas, on the other hand, had an "excellent" 2-way game for The Junior level (and OHL is most difficult). So, that, along with his excellent play without the puck, is why most observers expect him to make The Blues' opening day roster, outright, and many expect him to stay with the team all season. On the other hand, they expect Kyrou to play at least 25-30 games in The AHL, and possibly all season long (other than a short "trial", because of his need to develop a "pro-level" defensive game.

Capability levels at different levels of the game, have different levels of meaning. Thomas' 2-way "competence" is 2 levels above Kyrou's, in my view. Therefore, he is expected to be ready to play in The NHL, without being a risk to the team's overall defence, whereas, Kyrou's level of competence in that area IS expected to be a glaring weak link in team defence for his 5-man shift. Therefore, it is thought by most, that he'll need something like at least 1/3 season in The AHL, to develop mastery of a pro-level defensive game (awareness, reaction, reading plays, knowing what to do instinctively, etc.).

Patrick Kane>Alex Steen.

If Kyrou's is an offensive impact, his pro game will develop in the NHL

 

[Robb_K]

Patrick Kane>Alex Steen.

If Kyrou's is an offensive impact, his pro game will develop in the NHL

The difference between The Hawks' situation with Kane was that when Kane started, they were a weak team, and it didn't matter that he had defensive lapses at the start of his rookie year. They had no 2-way players to play in his place that could add even 35% of the offensive production he added. In The Blues' case now, they have enough veteran forwards

 

[Dbrownss]

The difference between The Hawks' situation with Kane was that when Kane started, they were a weak team, and it didn't matter that he had defensive lapses at the start of his rookie year. They had no 2-way players to play in his place that could add even 35% of the offensive production he added. In The Blues' case now, they have enough veteran forwards

how many are defensive studs? If Kyrou displaces one, big deal. We need offense, not medicore players. Kyrou isn't going to magically turn into a 2 way forward in a few months of the AHL. If he's ready, he's ready.


Kyrou for whatever reason gets put under a scanning electron microscope and has to be 100% ready for some posters. He is our most offensively gifted prospect, on a team that failed to produce offense, especially fast attack high IQ offense. If he produces in the preseason, he won't see the AHL. Forcing him to the AHL to ice guys like Jaskin, Thorburn, Soshnikov and Maroon would be an issue.

My sole question to Kyrou is, Are you willing to play the 200ft game? If that's displayed, then he's in.

 

[STL fan in MN]

how many are defensive studs? If Kyrou displaces one, big deal. We need offense, not medicore players. Kyrou isn't going to magically turn into a 2 way forward in a few months of the AHL. If he's ready, he's ready.


Kyrou for whatever reason gets put under a scanning electron microscope and has to be 100% ready for some posters. He is our most offensively gifted prospect, on a team that failed to produce offense, especially fast attack high IQ offense. If he produces in the preseason, he won't see the AHL. Forcing him to the AHL to ice guys like Jaskin, Thorburn, Soshnikov and Maroon would be an issue.

My sole question to Kyrou is, Are you willing to play the 200ft game? If that's displayed, then he's in.

I guess I just don’t see the point in pointing out the Blues mediocre offense last season. He’s not trying to make a team consisting of those players. He’s trying to make a team that has a DRASTICALLY improved top-9 with the additions of O’Reilly, Bozak, Perron and Maroon...not to mention likely Fabbri as well.

I really like Kyrou but he’s facing an extreme uphill battle to make it unless there are a few injuries to key guys ahead of him.

And most of the guys you mentioned are 4th liners. I don’t really see him as even being in position to compete for those spots.

 

[Dbrownss]

I guess I just don’t see the point in pointing out the Blues mediocre offense last season. He’s not trying to make a team consisting of those players. He’s trying to make a team that has a DRASTICALLY improved top-9 with the additions of O’Reilly, Bozak, Perron and Maroon...not to mention likely Fabbri as well.

I really like Kyrou but he’s facing an extreme uphill battle to make it unless there are a few injuries to key guys ahead of him.

And most of the guys you mentioned are 4th liners. I don’t really see him as even being in position to compete for those spots.

Why?

Unless the Blues are going to stick with the old mentality of grinder 4th line, I see no reason 10min a night in the NHL being a bad thing. I just keep seeing this moving goal post for Kyrou for him to be on the Blues.

Even with those additions, how many of those guys drive offense?

 

[STL fan in MN]

Why?

Unless the Blues are going to stick with the old mentality of grinder 4th line, I see no reason 10min a night in the NHL being a bad thing. I just keep seeing this moving goal post for Kyrou for him to be on the Blues.

Even with those additions, how many of those guys drive offense?

I just don’t see Kyrou as a good 4th line option. Personally, I find some of the “4 scoring lines” talk to be fantasy.

And what are these shifting goal posts for Kyrou? I haven’t followed what everyone has said but for me, my thoughts have been consistent. I thought he had a good shot to make the team before all of the additions but there just isn’t room for him now. It’s not like they’re going to send down guys they just signed for millions so they can play a waiver exempt Kyrou instead. Kyrou would have to be WAY better for them to even consider something like that (or trade someone to make room for Kyrou) and I just don’t see that happening.

Kyrou has good skill but I don’t see it as elite (other than his skating) and certainly not to the level to where he can push out some guys ahead of him out of the top-9 unless some of them severely disappoint (and he’s lights out) or some injuries. And he’s competing with Thomas and other rookies/prospects too.

I think Kyrou will see some NHL games this season and I really like his future but he’s simply facing a big uphill climb to make the team out of camp IMO.