Prospect Info: 2018 OHL Prospects Review

Evocable Manager

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How is rolling 4 scoring lines in any way a fantasy?

Maroon-O'Reilly-Tarasenko
Schwartz-Schenn-Kyrou
Steen-Bozak-Perron
Fabbri-Thomas-Soshnikov

That's a lot of options, without mentioning the possibility of Blais, Jaskin, or Barbashev playing. Even without Kyrou the Blues could roll 4 scoring lines. It's not like the line combinations can't be mixed and mashed as well.

And none of those lines would be liable in the defensive end.

Whether the coaching staff goes for this approach or not is the only thing standing in the way of it happening.
 
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Dbrownss

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I just don’t see Kyrou as a good 4th line option. Personally, I find some of the “4 scoring lines” talk to be fantasy.

And what are these shifting goal posts for Kyrou? I haven’t followed what everyone has said but for me, my thoughts have been consistent. I thought he had a good shot to make the team before all of the additions but there just isn’t room for him now. It’s not like they’re going to send down guys they just signed for millions so they can play a waiver exempt Kyrou instead. Kyrou would have to be WAY better for them to even consider something like that (or trade someone to make room for Kyrou) and I just don’t see that happening.

Kyrou has good skill but I don’t see it as elite (other than his skating) and certainly not to the level to where he can push out some guys ahead of him out of the top-9 unless some of them severely disappoint (and he’s lights out) or some injuries. And he’s competing with Thomas and other rookies/prospects too.

I think Kyrou will see some NHL games this season and I really like his future but he’s simply facing a big uphill climb to make the team out of camp IMO.
Why is it fantasy talk? Roll 4 lines that can score. Vegas may not have won it all but they steamrolled the league.
 

TK 421

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It's an interesting idea to consider. I guess it really comes down to having enough skill to construct a 4th scoring line and also Blues management being comfortable with each of those players and the amount of minutes they'll be playing.

For guys like Jaskin or Barbashev the team is clearly fine with them getting limited minutes at the NHL level. Maroon may be forced to play 4th line minutes with the other LW's being really good so there's one quality vet. I'm guessing Barbashev for the 4C, Jaskin as a 4RW. Kyrou could really be a huge offensive boost to that 4th line in place of Jaskin, he also offers an intriguing PK option further into the season. Kyrou is going to be a 1st year pro so obviously the safe bet is that he starts in S.A., however I hope he forces a tough decision regarding this very topic in camp.
 

STL fan in MN

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Why is it fantasy talk? Roll 4 lines that can score. Vegas may not have won it all but they steamrolled the league.

I keep seeing this narrative of Vegas rolling 4 scoring lines but since when are guys like Reaves, Bellemare, Carpenter and Lindberg scoring line guys?

Also, 4 lines that can score isn’t the same thing as 4 scoring lines. Also, a coach won’t care how much a line can score if it’s getting scored upon more than it’s scoring.

The Blues could theoretically put together 4 scoring lines but 1. it’d take a lot of guys performing better either offensively or defensively than what we should expect of them for it to work and 2. who thinks Mike Yeo would actually construct a roster that way?
 

Dbrownss

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I keep seeing this narrative of Vegas rolling 4 scoring lines but since when are guys like Reaves, Bellemare, Carpenter and Lindberg scoring line guys?

Also, 4 lines that can score isn’t the same thing as 4 scoring lines. Also, a coach won’t care how much a line can score if it’s getting scored upon more than it’s scoring.

The Blues could theoretically put together 4 scoring lines but 1. it’d take a lot of guys performing better either offensively or defensively than what we should expect of them for it to work and 2. who thinks Mike Yeo would actually construct a roster that way?
That is a good point....maybe it was their strategy didnt change. They just kept attacking.


I still believe it would be detrimental for Kyrou to get bumped due to depth and not readiness. From army's comments though, it sounds like Kyrou is in control of his path
 

STL fan in MN

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That is a good point....maybe it was their strategy didnt change. They just kept attacking.


I still believe it would be detrimental for Kyrou to get bumped due to depth and not readiness. From army's comments though, it sounds like Kyrou is in control of his path

If that’s been your argument the whole time, I wouldn’t argue against that. However, I’ll just say that sometimes guys can be Good enough for the NHL and there just happens to be more guys ahead of him who are currently even better. And those guys usually have to wait a bit...even if there are guys on other teams that make the NHL that they’re clearly better than. He could be ready but if others are more ready, then he doesn’t get the spot.

And I guess that’s what I think will happen. That Kyrou will be good in camp but not good enough to displace enough guys in front of him to earn a spot in camp. Unless there are some injuries. Or he plays a level or two above what I’m expecting.

Regardless, it should be a heck of a competitive camp in terms of the forwards.
 

Celtic Note

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I don’t think there is anything wrong with Kyrou playing a season in the AHL to start. He has things to work on and that’s a good place to do that. I would rather he play high minutes than 4th line minutes at first.
 

Dbrownss

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If that’s been your argument the whole time, I wouldn’t argue against that. However, I’ll just say that sometimes guys can be Good enough for the NHL and there just happens to be more guys ahead of him who are currently even better. And those guys usually have to wait a bit...even if there are guys on other teams that make the NHL that they’re clearly better than. He could be ready but if others are more ready, then he doesn’t get the spot.

And I guess that’s what I think will happen. That Kyrou will be good in camp but not good enough to displace enough guys in front of him to earn a spot in camp. Unless there are some injuries. Or he plays a level or two above what I’m expecting.

Regardless, it should be a heck of a competitive camp in terms of the forwards.
That's the thing though. I see a handful of guys that I dont think are better then him that will be given a roster spot
 

Dbrownss

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I don’t think there is anything wrong with Kyrou playing a season in the AHL to start. He has things to work on and that’s a good place to do that. I would rather he play high minutes than 4th line minutes at first.
Theres a difference between needing to go to the AHL and being forced to go
 

Reality Czech

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That's the thing though. I see a handful of guys that I dont think are better then him that will be given a roster spot

I get your concern, but on the other hand do we NEED Kyrou on the roster for a full 82-game season? Even if he is able to handle himself in the NHL, I also see the argument for starting him slowly in the AHL and calling him up when an injury (inevitably) occurs. If the ultimate goal is to have Kyrou make a smooth transition and contribute as much as possible this season, I could imagine them not forcing him on the roster right out of training camp. Who knows, maybe he would burn out midseason. Of course this can happen to any player, but I have said this in past years....just because player A makes the team over player B doesn't necessarily mean player A is the better overall player. The team just might have different strategies for developing each player. With a guy like Kyrou, it's probably smart to call him up when you know he is 100% ready, whereas you might take a different approach with a lower tier prospect.

Also, if putting Kyrou on the roster means we might lose someone else on waivers, that could play into their decision. It is a long season, injuries WILL happen. Not sure it would be wise to risk losing a guy like Soshnikov or whoever just to force Kyrou on the roster from Game 1.
 

Dbrownss

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I get your concern, but on the other hand do we NEED Kyrou on the roster for a full 82-game season? Even if he is able to handle himself in the NHL, I also see the argument for starting him slowly in the AHL and calling him up when an injury (inevitably) occurs. If the ultimate goal is to have Kyrou make a smooth transition and contribute as much as possible this season, I could imagine them not forcing him on the roster right out of training camp. Who knows, maybe he would burn out midseason. Of course this can happen to any player, but I have said this in past years....just because player A makes the team over player B doesn't necessarily mean player A is the better overall player. The team just might have different strategies for developing each player. With a guy like Kyrou, it's probably smart to call him up when you know he is 100% ready, whereas you might take a different approach with a lower tier prospect.

Also, if putting Kyrou on the roster means we might lose someone else on waivers, that could play into their decision. It is a long season, injuries WILL happen. Not sure it would be wise to risk losing a guy like Soshnikov or whoever just to force Kyrou on the roster from Game 1.
I'm not saying to force him on the roster, I'm saying if he genuinely earns his spot.
 

STL fan in MN

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That's the thing though. I see a handful of guys that I dont think are better then him that will be given a roster spot

I guess that’s the difference then. I just don’t see anyone he’d reasonably be competing with for a spot that I can say he’s better than right now. But super hard to say when we’re talking about a kid with no NHL experience.

If it was last year’s roster and he was competing with the likes of Paajarvi, Sundqvist etc for a 3rd line role, I’d give him very good odds of making the team. But this year’s group of forwards is much better so his chances goes down considerably IMO.

And I don’t think he’d be harmed one bit by playing some in the AHL. He still has plenty to work on and oftentimes it’s better for offensive guys like him to get top minutes and play in all situations than get lesser NHL minutes to start anyway. Let him build some confidence. The OHL to AHL is still a huge step up.
 

Dbrownss

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I guess that’s the difference then. I just don’t see anyone he’d reasonably be competing with for a spot that I can say he’s better than right now. But super hard to say when we’re talking about a kid with no NHL experience.

If it was last year’s roster and he was competing with the likes of Paajarvi, Sundqvist etc for a 3rd line role, I’d give him very good odds of making the team. But this year’s group of forwards is much better so his chances goes down considerably IMO.

And I don’t think he’d be harmed one bit by playing some in the AHL. He still has plenty to work on and oftentimes it’s better for offensive guys like him to get top minutes and play in all situations than get lesser NHL minutes to start anyway. Let him build some confidence. The OHL to AHL is still a huge step up.
Well just have to agree to disagree then
 
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Reality Czech

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I'm not saying to force him on the roster, I'm saying if he genuinely earns his spot.

Yeah, my words not yours. Just saying generally, the team will probably consider several factors when they decide the opening day roster. Not only talent and "NHL-readiness" but roster considerations/who they would have to expose to waivers. Of course an injury to another winger in camp could make this discussion moot.

I just feel that it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to let him join the team 10-20 games into the season, unless he blows everyone away at camp of course.
 

Dbrownss

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Yeah, my words not yours. Just saying generally, the team will probably consider several factors when they decide the opening day roster. Not only talent and "NHL-readiness" but roster considerations/who they would have to expose to waivers. Of course an injury to another winger in camp could make this discussion moot.

I just feel that it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to let him join the team 10-20 games into the season, unless he blows everyone away at camp of course.
This is what I'm getting at. I could be misreading poster, but it sounds like some just have him penciled in the AHL regardless of how well he does.
 

Stealth JD

Don't condescend me, man.
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@Dbrownss, I love ya, man...but there's nothing wrong with natural skepticism taking a cautious approach with a young guy who's about to be playing professionally against men for the first time. I don't think anyone is doubting Kyrou's skills or whether he'll ultimately be a productive NHL'er, rather when it's practical and reasonable for him to begin that process. As IA said, if this were last year's roster with Brodziak, Jaskin, Chef Pay-R-Vee, Sobotka, Andrea Roth, Thompson, Thorburn & Upshall dressed for opening-night...chances are Kyrou beats one of those schlubs out of a roster spot easily.

But now, by putting him on the NHL roster you're asking him to be a better NHL'er than established guys who have contracts and in most cases can't be sent down without risk of being claimed on waivers. Even if Kyrou looked better than Bozak or Steen in pre-season, it's naive to think that an AHL-eligible rookie has any chance of making this roster without some serious injury problems or some time in the minors allowing Army to make some roster decisions. Yes - Kyrou killed it in junior, and looks like he has a good-to-great future in the NHL; but you've got to think the Blues front office is going to be prudent here. Sure, he'd only theoretically have to beat out a few guys this list...but who? Can Kyrou really do the role that guy was going to play, better? Will he have enough time to prove it to a veteran roster and front-office?

Roster Locks (8):
ROR, Schenn, Steen, Perron, Tarasenko, Schwartz, Maroon, Bozak

Guys competing with Kyrou for final (5) spots:
Thomas, Fabbri, Jaskin, Sosnikov, Blais, Barbashev, Sundqvist, Nolan, Thorburn & Sanford

Every one of those guys, sans Thomas, has spent significant time in the NHL or the AHL. Skipping Kyrou to the head of the line doesn't seem all that likely. At least, not until he's proven over ~30 games that he is in fact ready for prime-time. Yeo knows Jaskin or Soshnikov probably won't lose him too many games...the front office can't say that for certainty about Kyrou just yet.
 
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Dbrownss

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@Dbrownss, I love ya, man...but there's nothing wrong with natural skepticism taking a cautious approach with a young guy who's about to be playing professionally against men for the first time. I don't think anyone is doubting Kyrou's skills or whether he'll ultimately be a productive NHL'er, rather when it's practical and reasonable for him to begin that process. As IA said, if this were last year's roster with Brodziak, Jaskin, Chef Pay-R-Vee, Sobotka, Andrea Roth, Thompson, Thorburn & Upshall dressed for opening-night...chances are Kyrou beats one of those schlubs out of a roster spot easily.

But now, by putting him on the NHL roster you're asking him to be a better NHL'er than established guys who have contracts and in most cases can't be sent down without risk of being claimed on waivers. Even if Kyrou looked better than Bozak or Steen in pre-season, it's naive to think that an AHL-eligible rookie has any chance of making this roster without some serious injury problems or some time in the minors allowing Army to make some roster decisions. Yes - Kyrou killed it in junior, and looks like he has a good-to-great future in the NHL; but you've got to think the Blues front office is going to be prudent here. Sure, he'd only theoretically have to beat out a few guys this list...but who? Can Kyrou really do the role that guy was going to play, better? Will he have enough time to prove it to a veteran roster and front-office?

Roster Locks (8):
ROR, Schenn, Steen, Perron, Tarasenko, Schwartz, Maroon, Bozak

Guys competing with Kyrou for final (5) spots:
Thomas, Fabbri, Jaskin, Sosnikov, Blais, Barbashev, Sundqvist, Nolan, Thorburn & Sanford

Every one of those guys, sans Thomas, has spent significant time in the NHL or the AHL. Skipping Kyrou to the head of the line doesn't seem all that likely. At least, not until he's proven over ~30 games that he is in fact ready for prime-time. Yeo knows Jaskin or Soshnikov probably won't lose him too many games...the front office can't say that for certainty about Kyrou just yet.
Its a sound argument, but I can't get behind it. The guys in bold are not going to win you any games, even if we say...they wont lose you a game. You make the room for talent.
 

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