Speculation: 2018 Off-Season: We fell short again... now what do we do?

[Sky04]

Now I know why the Rangers could never get over the hump, it wasn't Lundqvist after all. It was the collection of garbage that is Callahan, McDonagh, Stralman, Girardi, Miller and even Boyle. Yzerman needs to stop shopping in a trash heap and get some quality in.

You can imagine how bad their defense was if this broken McDonagh was logging in all the heavy minutes?

Definitely not worth a raise.

 

[DFC]

The only choice I'll go with is Sheldon Keefe if we need to replace Cooper. He hasn't won a heck of a lot of championships but he's basically the hottest guy out there right now and it's highly possible he will cash in a Calder Cup to boot. I don't want a retread like AV or Ruff. Give me new blood if we HAVE TO fire Cooper. But we really don't. He got a better roster and it played better. We lost in the ECF again because (per usual) the big guns went quiet. They were completely invisible all night. How much of that is REALLY on the coach? What is he gonna do? Tell them to play harder? Split up lines that already have fragile chemistry between them -especially Stamkos/Kucherov and Palat/Johnson?

I'm otherwise in favor of overhauling the defense

Okay... I obviously don't think we're going to fire the coach, but if you don't think we got out-coached here, I don't know what you're watching. There's a REASON those players were invisible. Because Trotz had a plan for them. The Caps didn't chase us; they waited for us. We had no response. They created a wall in front of their net, forcing us to the perimeter... so we kept playing the perimeter.

It's up to the coach to figure out a way through that. If you see players trying the same things over and over and over, and failing every time, it's on the coach to give them a new gameplan.

We had one minor adjustment in Game 2 or 3, when we started delaying in the neutral zone rather than rushing into their trap game. Aside from that, I really don't think we made a single adjustment in the entire series. We just kept banging our head against the same wall.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Now I know why the Rangers could never get over the hump, it wasn't Lundqvist after all. It was the collection of garbage that is Callahan, McDonagh, Stralman, Girardi, Miller and even Boyle. Yzerman needs to stop shopping in a trash heap and get some quality in.

except for Miller those players are on a decline, they used to be very good at some point.

 

[Sky04]

We should trade Miller's rights to try to get back into the 1st round.

With Johnson, we should look to Calgary and try to bring back a D.

I don't think Killorn is movable.

While I do think we got pretty badly outcoached in this series (which tends to be the case in serieses we lose), I think there's no way we fire Cooper. That said, I do think the bar for him is set at the ECF now, and if we fall short of that next year, his seat will warm up.

He's not going to get fired after this run but it definitely decreases the confidence you have of him ever winning a cup here. If Gallant can take it to Washington, even more question marks will be raised - this team didn't score a goal for nearly 8 periods straight with the best offense in the league, we'll see if a coach with a good system beats out a coach with the most talented forward group.

 

[These Are The Days]

he had 3 very good chances with same team and failed, you really want to bet that he is the right coach to win a Cup?

Star players falling dead in late round elimination games (especially Stamkos) is a player issue. You mean to tell me that (in elimination games) Stamkos is goose eggs except a 3 point game vs Pittsburgh in the 1st round of 2011 and Kucherov going 0 in game 6 and 7 of both ECF's against Pittsburgh and Washington is all on Cooper? I know you're not directly saying that but point the finger where it belongs. Alex freaking Killorn actually showed life compared to them. They failed us.... AGAIN

 

[HoseEmDown]

except for Miller those players are on a decline, they used to be very good at some point.

You could say the same about Stamkos, Johnson, Palat and Killorn. Maybe not Killorn but the rest fit the description.

 

[Sky04]

Star players falling dead in late round elimination games (especially Stamkos) is a player issue. You mean to tell me that (in elimination games) Stamkos is goose eggs except a 3 point game vs Pittsburgh in the 1st round of 2011 and Kucherov going 0 in game 6 and 7 of both ECF's against Pittsburgh and Washington is all on Cooper? I know you're not directly saying that but point the finger where it belongs. Alex freaking Killorn actually showed life compared to them. They failed us.... AGAIN

So you're saying it's Yzerman's fault for assembling a group of duds. Not the coach who's supposed to get the most out of their players right?

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Star players falling dead in late round elimination games (especially Stamkos) is a player issue. You mean to tell me that (in elimination games) Stamkos is goose eggs except a 3 point game vs Pittsburgh in the 1st round of 2011 and Kucherov going 0 in game 6 and 7 of both ECF's against Pittsburgh and Washington is all on Cooper? I know you're not directly saying that but point the finger where it belongs. Alex freaking Killorn actually showed life compared to them. They failed us.... AGAIN

or maybe the coach failed to get his players going or rally with team effort and strong defense?

 

[DFC]

Star players falling dead in late round elimination games (especially Stamkos) is a player issue. You mean to tell me that (in elimination games) Stamkos is goose eggs except a 3 point game vs Pittsburgh in the 1st round of 2011 and Kucherov going 0 in game 6 and 7 of both ECF's against Pittsburgh and Washington is all on Cooper? I know you're not directly saying that but point the finger where it belongs. Alex freaking Killorn actually showed life compared to them. They failed us.... AGAIN

...It's been established for like 3 years that Stamkos isn't a big-time playoff performer. He's not the guy we look to in Game 7s anyway.

But I mean... I'm not sure what you think a coach does. Just says, "Go play hard, boys!"???

Washington beat us by sticking to a structure that trumped ours. We kept crashing into the same wall over and over and over, playing a dump-and-cycle game they were more than ready for. I don't know what the answer to that is, but I know Cooper didn't have it.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

You could say the same about Stamkos, Johnson, Palat and Killorn. Maybe not Killorn but the rest fit the description.

maybe, but the ex Rangers other than McD and Miller are well into their 30's.

 

[More 2004]

Hedman better win the Norris..

 

[HoseEmDown]

maybe, but the ex Rangers other than McD and Miller are well into their 30's.

Which makes it even sadder with how far and fast ours have fallen.

 

[DFC]

We have another season to assess McDonagh. A lot of players look different when they get a full training camp in with the coach.

I think Yzerman's gonna use Miller to recoup some picks. I just hope scouts weren't watching Rounds 2 and 3 too closely.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Which makes it even sadder with how far and fast ours have fallen.

this tends to happen to so many players, which is why I hate long term contracts. But that is more reason to get a coaching change to get these players a bit of a reboot and a better or more effective system

 

[Sky04]

I'd keep Miller who's definitely an upgrade over Killorn if it was one or the other, we could fit them both under the cap with a little work but that'd take more effort then they put in this series so it's one or the other.

 

[Sky04]

this tends to happen to so many players, which is why I hate long term contracts. But that is more reason to get a coaching change to get these players a bit of a reboot and a better or more effective system

Yeah except the best option and everybody's answers last off season is currently getting ready for the Cup Finals, at this point it's a crapshoot to who could do better than Cooper.

 

[HoseEmDown]

I'd keep Miller who's definitely an upgrade over Killorn if it was one or the other, we could fit them both under the cap with a little work but that'd take more effort then they put in this series so it's one or the other.

Is he an upgrade though? In the regular season sure, he will put up more points but he was pretty pathetic in the playoffs. Killorn didn't produce like he did in the past but the guy was way more dangerous than Miller, Miller was as dangerous as Paquette.

 

[DFC]

I'd keep Miller who's definitely an upgrade over Killorn if it was one or the other, we could fit them both under the cap with a little work but that'd take more effort then they put in this series so it's one or the other.

I just don't see anybody taking Killorn's contract off our hands.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

I think it was a mistake playing Miller on top line, you increased his asking price, and he is a type of player that does well and has chemistry on almost any line so I think 2nd or 3rd line would have made more sense.

 

[These Are The Days]

Okay... I obviously don't think we're going to fire the coach, but if you don't think we got out-coached here, I don't know what you're watching. There's a REASON those players were invisible. Because Trotz had a plan for them. The Caps didn't chase us; they waited for us. We had no response. They created a wall in front of their net, forcing us to the perimeter... so we kept playing the perimeter.

It's up to the coach to figure out a way through that. If you see players trying the same things over and over and over, and failing every time, it's on the coach to give them a new gameplan.

We had one minor adjustment in Game 2 or 3, when we started delaying in the neutral zone rather than rushing into their trap game. Aside from that, I really don't think we made a single adjustment in the entire series. We just kept banging our head against the same wall.

You're not wrong. But how else is Cooper to adjust? So let's stop playing perimeter and send someone into the teeth of the defense and crash the net. Let's get some traffic in front of Holtby and take his eyes away while the Caps build the wall. Who do we have that's gonna get the puck through traffic for rebounds from the point? Sergachev can shoot the lights out of anything but he's not gonna get 20 minutes TOI in a game like this. Not til he's ready. Hedman shoots wide seemingly 9 out of 10 shots, Stalman handles the puck like a grenade, Coburn, Girardi and McDonagh either don't shoot well enough or not enough. Who is gonna put that puck in while Orpik slashes their legs like he's chopping a tree? Killorn? Callahan? Kunitz? Maybe Gourde? I mean we can try but with how much success?

But even then let's say we pinch a defenseman down the half wall and we get someone like Stamkos to take those shots through traffic. How confident are we if the puck gets blocked and a rush springs the other way. Tonight we saw the same fundamental problem we ran into with Detroit and Babcock. He'd put the wall up and we looked almost as bad then as we have now. We cycled ourselves to death and got little done. I don't want to say we aren't built for the kind of adjustment we need but I look down the lineup on how we would execute that game plan and I'm scratching my head. I'm no coach but we don't have a enough versatility outside of quick transition game. We wanted that to be our plan but the big guns who pulled that off were AWOL. I feel like we've tried to model ourselves after the Penguin team that beat us but what made them so dangerous last year and before was that they could play the speed game but if they needed to win dirty they had guys like Letang who could shoot it and others who could pick up the garbage.

I think we're close. There's no precise formula to winning it all but if the Caps taught us anything it's that you gotta tweak it and not give up on it. I have to imagine Yzerman isn't going to sit on his hands and wait for it to work.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

I just don't see anybody taking Killorn's contract off our hands.

Killorn for Marc Staal?

 

[These Are The Days]

So you're saying it's Yzerman's fault for assembling a group of duds. Not the coach who's supposed to get the most out of their players right?

You're right. Let's blame Cooper that guys like Point were all over the ice trying their damnedest to make something out of nothing instead of holding the slugs accountable for their own play. Yzerman is totally omnipotent and omnipresent and knew what performance our guys were gonna put on. What was a better plan? Play a trap and try to win 1-0 and hope that wild shot by Coburn headed for nowhere deflects off Gourde's stick and hinge hope that our PK doesn't let in a goal?

 

[DFC]

You're not wrong. But how else is Cooper to adjust? So let's stop playing perimeter and send someone into the teeth of the defense and crash the net. Let's get some traffic in front of Holtby and take his eyes away while the Caps build the wall. Who do we have that's gonna get the puck through traffic for rebounds from the point? Sergachev can shoot the lights out of anything but he's not gonna get 20 minutes TOI in a game like this. Not til he's ready. Hedman shoots wide seemingly 9 out of 10 shots, Stalman handles the puck like a grenade, Coburn, Girardi and McDonagh either don't shoot well enough or not enough. Who is gonna put that puck in while Orpik slashes their legs like he's chopping a tree? Killorn? Callahan? Kunitz? Maybe Gourde? I mean we can try but with how much success?

But even then let's say we pinch a defenseman down the half wall and we get someone like Stamkos to take those shots through traffic. How confident are we if the puck gets blocked and a rush springs the other way. Tonight we saw the same fundamental problem we ran into with Detroit and Babcock. He'd put the wall up and we looked almost as bad then as we have now. We cycled ourselves to death and got little done. I don't want to say we aren't built for the kind of adjustment we need but I look down the lineup on how we would execute that game plan and I'm scratching my head. I'm no coach but we don't have a enough versatility outside of quick transition game. We wanted that to be our plan but the big guns who pulled that off were AWOL. I feel like we've tried to model ourselves after the Penguin team that beat us but what made them so dangerous last year and before was that they could play the speed game but if they needed to win dirty they had guys like Letang who could shoot it and others who could pick up the garbage.

I think we're close. There's no precise formula to winning it all but if the Caps taught us anything it's that you gotta tweak it and not give up on it. I have to imagine Yzerman isn't going to sit on his hands and wait for it to work.

Whatever the answer is, it's not to do the exact thing that led to the Caps dominating us in 5 of the first 6 games.

The point is he didn't seem to try ANYTHING. He did exactly what you seem to be saying, which is to go play harder. I get that Coop isn't known as an Xs and Os guy, but we got Xed in the O here. Trotz flat-out out-coached him.

And hey, I'm giving Cooper some credit for our success, which is why I think it's ridiculous to think he might get fired right now. But he also deserves a lot of blame for our failures. It's just, right now, the success outweighs that, when it comes to job security.

 

[DFC]

You're right. Let's blame Cooper that guys like Point were all over the ice trying their damnedest to make something out of nothing instead of holding the slugs accountable for their own play. Yzerman is totally omnipotent and omnipresent and knew what performance our guys were gonna put on. What was a better plan? Play a trap and try to win 1-0 and hope that wild shot by Coburn headed for nowhere deflects off Gourde's stick and hinge hope that our PK doesn't let in a goal?

The problem wasn't so much tonight as it was Games 1, 2, and 6. Even if you call Game 1 a mulligan, getting his feet wet and well, having no response in Game 2 is pretty bad. And yeah, we won Games 3 and 4, but again, no adjustment, and we got dominated in Game 3 and borderline dominated in Game 4. Games 5 and 7 were our best of the series.

But it's on the coach to figure out how to win games, or at least get his team competitive. If we'd seen TB trying different things early in the series, I'd cut Coop a little more slack. But once Cooper finds success with something, as he did all season with our speedy cycle game, he simply HAS to die by that same sword (2015 TJ taking one-timers with a broken wrist on the PP). That's what happened here. I mean, sometimes it works, like Point vs. Bergeron, but it's like that only fuels his idea that staying the course is better than adapting on the fly.

We were in serious trouble against this structure. It was evident in Game 1.

 

[These Are The Days]

Whatever the answer is, it's not to do the exact thing that led to the Caps dominating us in 5 of the first 6 games.

The point is he didn't seem to try ANYTHING. He did exactly what you seem to be saying, which is to go play harder. I get that Coop isn't known as an Xs and Os guy, but we got Xed in the O here. Trotz flat-out out-coached him.

And hey, I'm giving Cooper some credit for our success, which is why I think it's ridiculous to think he might get fired right now. But he also deserves a lot of blame for our failures. It's just, right now, the success outweighs that, when it comes to job security.

Truth be told I think he was out of answers. I try to armchair this and I really have no answer on how we were going to win. I mean literally if it was up to me I'd have put Cirelli with Stamkos and Kucherov, Palat with Gourde and Point, double and triple shifted them and I would have had them out skate the Capitals defense. Combine your speed with skill and cross your fingers. I'd have done everything to invoke the "Miracle on Ice" mantra of "You don't defend them you attack them" the only thing I'd have done differently is demand any defenseman to shoot, shoot, shoot. But even then how effective would that have been? They can't shoot that well.

But I too would have failed because Kucherov and Stamkos didn't have a shooting mentality or their legs under them tonight. For what it's worth you and Macho are in a dead heat for who has come around most to Cooper. All you ever wanted was to see a fast team play fast and focus on attacking instead of defending. Well we got it and we got to within a win of the SCF again.

This is one of those times I really wish we drafted Seth Jones....