Prospect Info: 2018 NHL Draft / Pick #22 - K'Andre Miller (D)

[ColonialsHockey10]

He did this like twice.

He used to be able to move once he got going but he was never an excellent skater. He's always looked like he was about to trip over his own feet, not smooth at all.

It’s a lost cause trying to have an objective discussion on Marc Staals career, similar to Girardi.

If Miller turns out to be Staal he’s one of the biggest steals in the draft.

 

[pblawr]

He skates too well to be compared to a young Marc Staal. Even in his best days, he was never a great skater. But in the way they break up plays before a team has a chance to set up shop (well, for Staal the way he used to) I guess I kind of get it.

I get the impression you don't like Staal

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I get the impression you don't like Staal

What gave you that impression?

I liked the good Staal, not the one we've seen since the 2015-16 season who was getting force fed minutes under our last coach.

 

[Dijock94]

player comparisons are hilarious

Is he black? Only comparisons are other black players (Duclair was compared to Evander Kane all the time)

Swedish? Definitely only comparable are other Swedes

Russian? You know the drill

It's stereotyping at its finest

I agree with comparing black guys. But when it comes to country comparisons I don’t hate it. You tend to see Russian players have elite hands and fluid skating. Swedish players tend to be similar in that they have solid all around games with less flash. Like people say stereotypes exist for a reason, but yea comparing guys cause they’re black is really lazy.

 

[Levitate]

I loved Staal back in the day

His concussions and puck to the eye hurt his career a lot. He could still be a Vlasic style defenseman if he hadn't gone through all those injuries that definitely took a toll on his abilities.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Staal was really good rushing the puck in Jrs at the same age because he had a powerful stride and a huge reach which allowed him to shield the puck extremely well.

But Miller's edge work, lateral mobility and acceleration is miles better. He's a great skater for sure. I do see a lot of Skjei with the way he transports the puck, would like him to keep his head up and change gears a bit more instead of bearing down all the time. Also optimistic about Miller's ability to develop his offensive game.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

Staal was really good rushing the puck in Jrs at the same age because he had a powerful stride and a huge reach which allowed him to shield the puck extremely well.

But Miller's edge work, lateral mobility and acceleration is miles better. He's a great skater for sure. I do see a lot of Skjei with the way he transports the puck, would like him to keep his head up and change gears a bit more instead of bearing down all the time. Also optimistic about Miller's ability to develop his offensive game.

He doesn’t need to be a PPQB in order to rack up points either, like Skjei.

We’re increasingly seeing defenseman in the NHL bring offense by simply mastering the breakout pass/transition game. TJ Brodie is one that jumps out to me.

Would be great if Miller learns to play the PP, but I think the offense will most likely come in the way it does for Skjei, rather than someone like DeAngelo. Both are great.

 

[Edge]

Do you pay no mind to the advanced stats that say he's already a good defenseman?

Personally, I am aware of it.

With that said, I think there are concerns from others as to how those numbers look when the competition gets more intense and the games transition faster.

 

[offdacrossbar]

The same Marc Staal that used to rush the puck end to end back in the day?

He was an excellent skater once upon a time. Let’s not let a few brutal years cloud our full judgement of him.

yep.

many here forget or maybe didn't even know that marc staal was a mobile skating dman. long and lanky and mostly defensive. one heck of mobile defender. he would and could skate back then. ask ovie about that...

hes always handled the puck like a hand grenade imo but skating wasnt a problem for him at all back then.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Personally, I am aware of it.

With that said, I think there are concerns from others as to how those numbers look when the competition gets more intense and the games transition faster.

i get your drift here.

much of this is built in imo because he's only been playing defense a short time. the skill are there but is the intuitive feel there as he plays against bigger stronger smarter players. ? fair point.

i watched alot of this kid following the us ndpt team and mainly joel farabee. this kid ALWAYS stood out as a money player for that team. a minute eating, mobile big body who always played sound defense. i kept noticing him and his size out there. he is a large kid who moves very well.

i would say his stride, leg strength and overall skating are near the top of the entire draft.

with better coaching at u of w and better technical positioning, no doubt this kid is a potential monster.

i leave you with this, he reminds me of chris kreider when he was drafted. a physical freak who skates like the wind. an athlete on skates. this kids strength, like CK, is rare. he's a gifted physical specimen. if he booms, he's gonna boom big. the hockey IQ is the only caveat. like CK still today, thats the only thing i see as an issue.

 

[Levitate]

yep.

many here forget or maybe didn't even know that marc staal was a mobile skating dman. long and lanky and mostly defensive. one heck of mobile defender. he would and could skate back then. ask ovie about that...

hes always handled the puck like a hand grenade imo but skating wasnt a problem for him at all back then.

Eh, I don't really agree. He was a an OK skater but I dont' think he was ever really a great "mobile" defenseman. He did well in the past because he was good at positioning and stick work.

 

[Tawnos]

i get your drift here.

much of this is built in imo because he's only been playing defense a short time. the skill are there but is the intuitive feel there as he plays against bigger stronger smarter players. ? fair point.

i watched alot of this kid following the us ndpt team and mainly joel farabee. this kid ALWAYS stood out as a money player for that team. a minute eating, mobile big body who always played sound defense. i kept noticing him and his size out there. he is a large kid who moves very well.

i would say his stride, leg strength and overall skating are near the top of the entire draft.

with better coaching at u of w and better technical positioning, no doubt this kid is a potential monster.

i leave you with this, he reminds me of chris kreider when he was drafted. a physical freak who skates like the wind. an athlete on skates. this kids strength, like CK, is rare. he's a gifted physical specimen. if he booms, he's gonna boom big. the hockey IQ is the only caveat. like CK still today, thats the only thing i see as an issue.

I like the comparison, although it's easier to get past some of those issues as a winger than a D.

The thing with Kreider is that he's shown to be extremely coachable, even when he hates his coach (Tortorella). I get the sense, and it's only a sense, that Miller is too.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Eh, I don't really agree. He was a an OK skater but I dont' think he was ever really a great "mobile" defenseman. He did well in the past because he was good at positioning and stick work.

dont mistake "mobile" for fast or elusive. he wasnt that.

he was mobile meaning he could play mobile defense and his defensive postioning was excellent along with his work along the boards and especially one on one. he was very good at playing defense to middle of the ice and pushing forwards to the wall. his reach and long stick took away alot of ice.

long strides and rather hunched over was way i remember but he was deft as defending and keeping his man in front.

 

[Ola]

I think back in juniors Staal was pretty decent at moving the puck with his skating but his best work was always positioning, stick work, controlling the neutral zone or making plays in his own end, but could move things out decently well when needed. The NHL is another level though and I think he's gone through some ankle injuries over the years

e: The thing I like about taking a shot at a "risky and raw" pick like Miller is that from all accounts he is a hard worker and a smart person. If you have a lot to learn about a position and a lot to improve on to match your physical gifts, having the smarts and dedication to work on it will give you a better chance at reaching your potential. Some guys have great gifts but rely on them too much. Miller sounds like a guy who will do what it takes to improve on his weaknesses

Yeah, and I think many of us was questioning when not if Staal would take that final step and start contributing more offensively. Staal was also at his peak a clear No 1 D on a team that made the POs.

But somewhere along the line I have always felt that Staal changed completely and became a player that just played to get by, and stopped going to war out there, stopped dreaming of doing great things and so forth. Eric’s hit and that shot to the face just got to him.

Lev- I haven’t followed the conversation, but on the mobile part: The league was pretty immobile when Staal was a rookie. Rich Pilon, Excelby, White, Sutton, the Hatchers and a bunch of other guys like that still played.

Nobody would think about callin Staal a mobile D if he was 18 today, but like back in what 06’, compared to some he was definitely very mobile...

Edit: Reading more of the thread and grasping the context — I don’t think it’s dumb to compare Miller to Staal. But like I said, the game was very different 12 years ago. But taking that into mind I think we all would — love it — if Miller can copy Staals development path the first 5-6 years. Becoming a No 1 D on his team and leading it to the POs. But I don’t think it makes sense to claim that Miller will look in the NHL in 2020 like an 20 y/o Staal who went into a time machine in 2006 would look in 2020. If you get what I mean.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

am i wrong to be concerned that the disclaimer on his defense is that he has only played defense for 2 years and needs to be taught but also on the flipside he won't provide any offense? is he a hockey player? or is he a great athlete that they hope can be made into a hockey player?

Unpopular opinion, considering our team just drafted this guy, but I've been saying this for months, and I'll stick to it. Reminds me of Sean Day without the character and work-ethic concerns. Hockey skills are way behind, maybe even non-existent. Sean Day, John Moore, Brady Skjei, something of that mold. Obviously they play that game to a variety of degrees. We hope he's more Skjei than Day. I think its overly optimistic though to think he'll be more Skjei than Day, based on where his game was at this season. He looked like a player who regressed more than anything, if I was to be honest.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

- Falsly labeled as a Physical defenseman. He has the tools to be, but he doesnt impose like some are saying

I mostly agree with everything you said, but I think there's a needed distinction here. Miller can be very physical and hit players. He's not a soft player, at all, but he doesn't yet know how to use it to his advantage. There are defensemen his age who already know exactly how to leverage their size advantage. The physicality part of his game is present, but not there in the right ways yet.

 

[Kaapo di tutti capi]

am i wrong to be concerned that the disclaimer on his defense is that he has only played defense for 2 years and needs to be taught but also on the flipside he won't provide any offense? is he a hockey player? or is he a great athlete that they hope can be made into a hockey player?

This is a worry for me as well - I mean, Lionel Messi is a great athlete - doesn't mean I want to see him strap on a pair of skates.

 

[Algernop Kreider]

In the Houston Rockets front office they have a rule that, if a player isn't black, you're not allowed to make any comparison to another player of the same ethnicity. This should be a rule on hfboards.

 

[bl02]

IDK I watched some video of his games and he looks like he has a ton of potential. I am really excited to see how this kid develops for the next 2 years. Forgetting the second we gave up (cause we had to make the trade and move up to pick either Bokk or this kid) I am very happy we selected him. Only Bokk I would have preferred. There is no way no how this kid would have made it to 26 never mind the second round.

 

[broadwayblue]

No way he would have lasted 4 more picks? Perhaps, perhaps not.

 

[Kaapo di tutti capi]

No way he would have lasted 4 more picks? Perhaps, perhaps not.

The rumors seem to suggest that Minnesota and Toronto were both heavily interested, so he probably wouldn't have made it to 26.

 

[Polar Bear]

No way he would have lasted 4 more picks? Perhaps, perhaps not.

Gorton wouldn't have moved up if he didn't have good info that he would've gone ahead of us.

Off the bat, Minnesota (who also took a d-man and Miller is from the state) and Toronto (rumored to have wanted him and moved down when he wasn't there and also took a d-man) seemed like the threats.

 

[Polar Bear]

According to Carpinello, it was going to be the Ducks at 23.

 

[broadwayblue]

Well that makes it sting a bit less. I guess Ottawa was able to use that leverage against us to get #49 when it really should have been closer to #70 to move up only 4 spots.

 

[Fvital92]