Line Combos: 2018/19 Roster Discussion

[Calgareee]

I've never seen anything from Wills about Valimaki making the team. It's all been Boomer, Rhett & Francis.

The only comment from Wills regarding Valimaki was during the last game, when he said Valimaki was playing like he doesn't want to be sent to Stockton

This morning they had him on the boomer show and he said quite emphatically that he expected to see Valimaki paired with Stone on opening day.

Went on to say that he was under the impression that Valimaki and Andersson aren’t in direct competition for a spot as they didn’t see Stone or Rasmus playing in the left side.

 

[Lunatik]

This morning they had him on the boomer show and he said quite emphatically that he expected to see Valimaki paired with Stone on opening day.

Went on to say that he was under the impression that Valimaki and Andersson aren’t in direct competition for a spot as they didn’t see Stone or Rasmus playing in the left side.

Thanks for the clarification, when I heard that earlier it was just said the morning show, so I assumed it was the other morons.

 

[Calgareee]

Thanks for the clarification, when I heard that earlier it was just said the morning show, so I assumed it was the other morons.

No problem! I typically listen as it’s always good for a laugh when they get Rhett telling stories and the guests they bring on. I was a little surprised to hear that they’re considering Valimaki already tbh. Was expecting him to start out in Stockton myself.

Still hoping for

Brodano
Hanifin - Andersson
Valimaki - Hamonic

by the end of the year!

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I think Andersson is probably more ready than Valimaki. But Valimaki plays a style that Peters loves, I won’t be surprised to see him make the team.

 

[CraigsList]

I'm hoping Valimaki gets top pairing AHL minutes. He may be ready, but I think a year in the AHL wouldn't hurt.

 

[Fig]

For anyone expecting Stone to move, I really disagree. Frolik easily will be a cap causality long before Stone for quite a few reasons.

- Stone plays with a physicality and clearing of the crease that few other dmen we have play with
- Stone can play left and right D. I don't think Kulak plays RD and there was an interview where apparently Andersson stared blankly when asked if he'd be able to try to play LD. Stone could pair with either Rasmus or Juuso.
- Stone can play into the top 4 which is extremely valuable later in the season when injuries occur.
- Stone is a vet, running a bottom pairing of kids is not good for their development. His ability to shelter them and mentor them is valuable.
- Having Stone here *may* help to lure his bro here and sign a favourable deal.
- Stone has known Tre longer than any other dman on our roster. He knows how to play with Smith the most effectively in comparison to many of our other dmen.

 

[Rubi]

 

[Sparky93]

As much as I’d like to see an internal upgrade on Kulak and Stone, this year, I’m not sure if it would be the right decision.

Stone will have to be moved by next season, in order to make room for the Tkachuk contract. We have to showcase this guy, even if it’s in a sheltered role, to maximize the return.

I also think there’s a great opportunity for the likes of Dube, Mangiapane, Andersson and Valimaki to build some really solid chemistry, playing top line minutes that could carry over to bottom 6 roles in the NHL next year.

 

[Anglesmith]

I found it very interesting that Valimaki has a contract slide option, so the Flames could be planning to give him his "regular season tryout," especially with the first two games being against the... non-powerhouse Canucks.

 

[Lunatik]

I found it very interesting that Valimaki has a contract slide option, so the Flames could be planning to give him his "regular season tryout," especially with the first two games being against the... non-powerhouse Canucks.

That is a possibility, but they also have that option at any point in time because unlike the CHL, if Valimaki plays in the AHL, he can go up and down whenever.

 

[Anglesmith]

That is a possibility, but they also have that option at any point in time because unlike the CHL, if Valimaki plays in the AHL, he can go up and down whenever.

True.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I think Valimaki gets a shot. In terms of development 3rd pairing D is not the same as 4th line F in the NHL. Playing against the best guys makes you better.

Power play is probably the easiest thing to recreate in practice so I don’t think that hurts him. He reminds me of Dougie Hamilton the more I watch him. But I also see shades of Gio.

No guarantee he’s ready but I think he gets a shot.

 

[DFF]

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk Backlund Neal
Bennett - Jankowski - Frolik
Dube- Ryan- Czarnik

Lazar, Hathaway

Giordano - Brodie
Hanifin - Hamonic
Andersson - Stone
Kulak

Smith
Rittich


Valamaki may replace Andersson cause coaching staff may like him more
Giles has been better than Rittich but he is better off in the AHL learning how to play goaltending. If Rittich needs to play more than 20 games then god helps us.
3rd and 4th lines are swapable based on performance

Mangepane is not an NHLer. He adds nothing to the team as a bottom 6 and not good enough to be top 6. Should be in the minor waiting for top 6 opening.....probably same with Dube but he earned the spot

 

[JPeeper]

For anyone expecting Stone to move, I really disagree. Frolik easily will be a cap causality long before Stone for quite a few reasons.

- Stone plays with a physicality and clearing of the crease that few other dmen we have play with
- Stone can play left and right D. I don't think Kulak plays RD and there was an interview where apparently Andersson stared blankly when asked if he'd be able to try to play LD. Stone could pair with either Rasmus or Juuso.
- Stone can play into the top 4 which is extremely valuable later in the season when injuries occur.
- Stone is a vet, running a bottom pairing of kids is not good for their development. His ability to shelter them and mentor them is valuable.
- Having Stone here *may* help to lure his bro here and sign a favourable deal.
- Stone has known Tre longer than any other dman on our roster. He knows how to play with Smith the most effectively in comparison to many of our other dmen.

This is false, Stone sucks and can't even play bottom pairing let alone top 4. And he most definitely does not clear the crease/front of the net, this is a fallacy conjured up because he plays physical. His physically often leads to him missing checks leading to odd man breaks, holding penalties because he pins guys on the boards for too long without any thought of the puck and never winning puck battles because he doesn't understand hockey is played with a stick.

If Flames are going to go big game hunting next off season for a goalie, both Fro and Stone need to be traded.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

This is false, Stone sucks and can't even play bottom pairing let alone top 4.

Unfair... Stone's a solid #6 defenseman, maybe one of the best in the league in that role. He's paid more like a #4 so sometimes it can be a bit concerning that he lacks the trade value to make room for raises to some of our RFAs, but you can't say he can't play bottom pairing. If Mike Stone is your sixth best defenseman (which he is even among our vets group, never mind Oliver, Juuso, and Rasmus) you are in a very healthy position.

If you care, here are the 5-on-5 stats for the five pairs Stone played any real minutes on last year:

Kulak-Stone
661.88 minutes
52.8%xGF

Brodie-Stone
163.08 minutes
54.11% xGF

Bartkowski-Stone
113.38 minutes
39.15% xGF

Giordano-Stone
80.43 minutes
54.79% xGF

Stone-Hamonic
63.5 minutes
39.84% xGF

When Stone was paired with one of our three NHL LD, he posted at least a 52.8% expected goals for. Sure, one of those pairs doesn't belong in the NHL - because Bartkowski is not an NHLer. And sure, another one of those pairs is just idiotic - Stone is not a left side defenseman. But the other three pairs are exactly what you want out of your #6 defenseman - who also has quite a rocket of a slap shot when he has Brodie to set him up for it.

If our bottom pair had any issues last year, it was that Kulak as our #5 just didn't have that natural chemistry in setting Stone up for the one-timer that Brodie did. I think Kylington has a better feel for that offensive side stuff. Still, our third pair was exceptionally reliable defensively and they broke the puck out as well as you would want a third pair to - even if Kulak had to do a good bit of the heavy lifting it wasn't a case of one guy being anchored down by his partner. Our bottom pair defended the middle, they won their fair share of puck battles, and they were solid on breakouts. Of course Stone isn't perfect - if he had the skating to be tighter in the neutral zone it would be huge, but that also applies to Hamonic who plays bigger and tougher minutes.

If Andersson is an upgrade on Stone, it's because Andersson is very good, not because Stone is bad. Replacing Engelland with Stone was a very good thing and last year we had our best third pair in ages, dragged down only by a terrible season teamwide in shooting percentage.

 

[Sparky93]

This is false, Stone sucks and can't even play bottom pairing let alone top 4. And he most definitely does not clear the crease/front of the net, this is a fallacy conjured up because he plays physical. His physically often leads to him missing checks leading to odd man breaks, holding penalties because he pins guys on the boards for too long without any thought of the puck and never winning puck battles because he doesn't understand hockey is played with a stick.

If Flames are going to go big game hunting next off season for a goalie, both Fro and Stone need to be traded.

We have almost $13 million coming off the books, if we manage to move both of Frolik and Stone, without taking back salary. A conservative estate for Tkachuk, Bennett and replacing the other 2 would be $8 million. $5-6 million is hardly big game hunting, in the top goalie market. The top guys, in our price range will likely be Varlamov, Talbot and Lehner. I wouldn’t say any of those guys are clearly an upgrade on Smith. Then, of course, there’s Brodie and Hamonic looking for raises the following year.
Our best bet still lies in the AHL. If Gillies can figure out how to hold his net or Parsons can stay standing just a little longer, we have 2 guys with starter potential.

 

[JPeeper]

We have almost $13 million coming off the books, if we manage to move both of Frolik and Stone, without taking back salary. A conservative estate for Tkachuk, Bennett and replacing the other 2 would be $8 million. $5-6 million is hardly big game hunting, in the top goalie market. The top guys, in our price range will likely be Varlamov, Talbot and Lehner. I wouldn’t say any of those guys are clearly an upgrade on Smith. Then, of course, there’s Brodie and Hamonic looking for raises the following year.
Our best bet still lies in the AHL. If Gillies can figure out how to hold his net or Parsons can stay standing just a little longer, we have 2 guys with starter potential.

$13 mil? We have Smith, Hathaway and Prout as our only UFA's leaving and Bennett, Tkachuk, Kulak as RFA's. UFA's and RFA's combined (+the buyouts) that's around 10 (which also includes Lazar). Tkachuk's raise and Bennett staying at his current hit is $8.5-9 mil right there so that leaves us with $1 mil to sign 2 d-man and 2 forwards.

 

[DFF]

If Andersson is an upgrade on Stone, it's because Andersson is very good, not because Stone is bad. Replacing Engelland with Stone was a very good thing and last year we had our best third pair in ages, dragged down only by a terrible season teamwide in shooting percentage.

Somewhere in Vegas, Mr. Engelland agreed

 

[Sparky93]

$13 mil? We have Smith, Hathaway and Prout as our only UFA's leaving and Bennett, Tkachuk, Kulak as RFA's. UFA's and RFA's combined (+the buyouts) that's around 10 (which also includes Lazar). Tkachuk's raise and Bennett staying at his current hit is $8.5-9 mil right there so that leaves us with $1 mil to sign 2 d-man and 2 forwards.

Stone and Frolik will be traded. That should cover the Tkachuk and Bennett raises. Kulak, we can probably find a similar caliber #7 for cheaper. That basically leaves the Smith, Bouma and Murphy contracts for a new goalie, about $5-6 million depending on the Tkachuk/Bennett deals. I don’t even count the Prout, Hathaway, Lazar and company deals, they’ll all have to be filled regardless, with the savings being minor.

 

[super6646]

Stone and Frolik will be traded. That should cover the Tkachuk and Bennett raises. Kulak, we can probably find a similar caliber #7 for cheaper. That basically leaves the Smith, Bouma and Murphy contracts for a new goalie, about $5-6 million depending on the Tkachuk/Bennett deals. I don’t even count the Prout, Hathaway, Lazar etc. deals, they’ll all have to be filled regardless and the savings would be minor.

You think Bennett gets a raise?

 

[Sparky93]

You think Bennett gets a raise?

He’ll get a raise, how much depends on the season. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him get a 2 or 3 year deal similar to Strome.

 

[Fig]

This is false, Stone sucks and can't even play bottom pairing let alone top 4. And he most definitely does not clear the crease/front of the net, this is a fallacy conjured up because he plays physical. His physically often leads to him missing checks leading to odd man breaks, holding penalties because he pins guys on the boards for too long without any thought of the puck and never winning puck battles because he doesn't understand hockey is played with a stick.

If Flames are going to go big game hunting next off season for a goalie, both Fro and Stone need to be traded.

You have your opinion, I have mine. I personally believe that Stone plays out his contract here. If he doesn't play out his contract, I believe Frolik has been traded before him. I also think that a guy like Kulak is traded before Stone.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Isles fan coming in peace. Just checking on my fantasy league prospects. I see no mention of Kylington. I thought he'd at least get a long look this preseason, but I don't see him in anybody's roster discussion. Guess he hasn't impressed yet?

 

[Calgareee]

Isles fan coming in peace. Just checking on my fantasy league prospects. I see no mention of Kylington. I thought he'd at least get a long look this preseason, but I don't see him in anybody's roster discussion. Guess he hasn't impressed yet?

He’s progressing but we have Gio, Hanifin as the top 2 lhd then he’s fighting with Kulak, Valimaki for the last spot. Looks like right now Valimaki has the inside track to start there and Kulak would have to go through waivers.

Personally think Kylington has a ton of potential, anyone that skates like he does has a shot. His problem is that he tends to make a pretty diasterous mental mistake a couple times a game that wipes out the good he’s done.

 

[Lunatik]

Isles fan coming in peace. Just checking on my fantasy league prospects. I see no mention of Kylington. I thought he'd at least get a long look this preseason, but I don't see him in anybody's roster discussion. Guess he hasn't impressed yet?

Kylington was cut last week