Prospect Info: 2017 Leafs Board Prospect Ranking #20

[Schenn]

Hello all, I will make a thread everyday until we have determined the top 30 prospects according to Leaf fans on HFBoards.

Rankings:
1. Timothy Liljegren -- 57.66%
2. Kasperi Kapanen -- 89.47%
3. Travis Dermott -- 83.75%
4. Carl Grundstrom -- 55.23%
5. Yegor Korshkov -- 35.67%
6. Jeremy Bracco --34.48%
7. Andreas Johnsson -- 25.48%
8. Andrew Nielsen -- 42.07%
9. Andreas Borgman -- 31.45%
10. Joseph Woll -- 31.54%
11. Eemeli Rasanan -- 26.67%
12. Kerby Rychel -- 27.87%
13. Calle Rosen -- 36.67%
14. Adam Brooks -- 43.42%
15. Dmytro Timashov -- 31.75%
16. Miro Aaltonen -- 34.38%
17. Frederik Gauthier -- 46.67%
18. JD Greenway -- 41.05%
19. Martin Dzierkals -- 19.51%
20.

______________
On The Docket:
Nikolai Chebykin
Garrett Sparks
Vladislav Kara
Tobias Lindberg
Jesper Lindgren
Ian Scott
Fedor Gordeev
Justin Holl
Dakota Joshua
Rinat Valiev
Nicolas Mattinen
Keaton Middleton
Kasimir Kaskisuo
Trevor Moore
Vladimir Bobylev


____________
Next on the List:

John Piccinich
Pierre Engvall
Nolan Vesey
Jack Walker
Ryan McGregor
Ryan O'Connell


______________
Past Results:

Prospect Ranking #1
Prospect Ranking #2
Prospect Ranking #3
Prospect Ranking #4
Prospect Ranking #5
Prospect Ranking #6
Prospect Ranking #7
Prospect Ranking #8
Prospect Ranking #9
Prospect Ranking #10
Prospect Ranking #11
Prospect Ranking #12
Prospect Ranking #13
Prospect Ranking #14
Prospect Ranking #15
Prospect Ranking #16
Prospect Ranking #17
Prospect Ranking #18


2016 Final Result
2015 Final Result
2014 Final Result
2013 Final Result
2012 Final Result
2011 Final Result
2010 Final Result

Suggest who I should add next.

Click to read more...

 

[WilliamInLondon]

I think Trevor Moore could develop into a cost-efficient, serviceable NHL winger. played very well in spurts in his first professional season - expect him to build on that in the AHL this year.

 

[Once]

Went with Lindgren, RHD, New-era defensemen who's skill set will match well with the teams makeup.

 

[kbooks]

Aaltonen

I think he should be much higher on your list. about 8th is where I would him considering many think he will get a solid shot to make the team this fall. In fact all the European prospects except Johnson are ranked too low in my opinion.

I would add Trevor Moore at #20

 

[7even]

It's Joshua.

 

[Cor]

Ian Scott.

 

[AppsSyl]

Voted Middleton, would add Engvall to the list next.

 

[Lauro]

It's Valiev. He was 16th last year, ahead of Bracco. One season with knee surgery shouldn't make him fall that much.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

It's Valiev. He was 16th last year, ahead of Bracco. One season with knee surgery shouldn't make him fall that much.

He wasn't that great before his injury either. The Marlies defense was not great last year, and he was the worst of the worst. Two of the guys in the top 6 were rookies.

He still has all of the potential he had before as a top 4 RD. A good year next year and a bunch of teams could covet him in a trade. A bunch of teams could covet him now. He's got good value and good potential. Personally, I question his NHL abilities: he makes a ton of questionable decisions and does not have the skills to back it up; his skills will only translate to the NHL if he has suitable IQ to accompany it. With his injury hurting his development a little bit + other guys taking a step forward + new guys coming in, he's going to drop, quite possibly out of the top 30 for me. I may never vote for him (for one because I do not consider him a prospect anymore, and two because I do not think he'd be top 30 even if he was).

Lindberg is falling into the same trend, but unlike Valiev, he was actually good whenever he was on the ice last year. Both just need to stay healthy, and if they do, they could be on the Leafs next year without a doubt... Or they could be dealt next offseason to a team willing to give them a shot.

 

[showtime8]

Ian Scott.

 

[wasting time]

Sorry for dredging-up Gauthier again, but this article was just published this morning. It's like I wrote it or something given the points I was trying to convey in earlier voting threads. Bottom line: Gauthier is not an NHL player, even before his injury he sucked considerably worse that Ben Smith. Colin Greening was better. Brian Froese was better. He is an OK AHL player. Not a top 25 prospect, much less #17.

https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/...leafs-no-love-for-the-bottom-half-of-the-draw

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Sorry for dredging-up Gauthier again, but this article was just published this morning. It's like I wrote it or something given the points I was trying to convey in earlier voting threads. Bottom line: Gauthier is not an NHL player, even before his injury he sucked considerably worse that Ben Smith. Colin Greening was better. Brian Froese was better. He is an OK AHL player. Not a top 25 prospect, much less #17.

https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/...leafs-no-love-for-the-bottom-half-of-the-draw

There are a lot of inaccuracies to that article. Everything they dredged up about his usage and abilities in the AHL is pretty far off. The only thing that was right was he took major strides forward and improved his skating (among many other things they failed to mention), so it is tough to trust anything they wrote about his AHL season. I find it laughable that they tried comparing him to Froese, when they did not play even remotely the same role. Froese played with Leipsic and Kapanen a lot more than Gauthier ever did, and then a wealth of other guys came in to play higher up too once Froese was dealt.

NHL, sure. Smith may have been a little bit better. I didn't hate Smith. However Babcock liked Gauthier enough to give him 21 NHL games in favour of Smith, who sat in the press box in his place the entire time Gauthier was in the NHL. You know they were grasping at straws when they tried to convince readers that a 21 year old big guy who was already so far ahead in his projected development that he was getting legit NHL ice time is never going to be better than 29 year old Ben Smith because he was slightly worse than him right now. 21 year old Ben Smith was picking his nose in the NCAA. Smith did not even get half the opportunities Gauthier did until he was like 24.

So let's cool the jets on the GOAT hate. He made major strides last year. If his injury does not affect him much, he should make more next year. He was a totally different player than he was last year, and the fact people like Valiev got votes before he even got one shows they know little about Leafs prospects.

 

[Menzinger]

There are a lot of inaccuracies to that article. Everything they dredged up about his usage and abilities in the AHL is pretty far off. The only thing that was right was he took major strides forward and improved his skating (among many other things they failed to mention), so it is tough to trust anything they wrote about his AHL season. I find it laughable that they tried comparing him to Froese, when they did not play even remotely the same role. Froese played with Leipsic and Kapanen a lot more than Gauthier ever did, and then a wealth of other guys came in to play higher up too once Froese was dealt.

NHL, sure. Smith may have been a little bit better. I didn't hate Smith. However Babcock liked Gauthier enough to give him 21 NHL games in favour of Smith, who sat in the press box in his place the entire time Gauthier was in the NHL. You know they were grasping at straws when they tried to convince readers that a 21 year old big guy who was already so far ahead in his projected development that he was getting legit NHL ice time is never going to be better than 29 year old Ben Smith because he was slightly worse than him right now. 21 year old Ben Smith was picking his nose in the NCAA. Smith did not even get half the opportunities Gauthier did until he was like 24.

So let's cool the jets on the GOAT hate. He made major strides last year. If his injury does not affect him much, he should make more next year. He was a totally different player than he was last year, and the fact people like Valiev got votes before he even got one shows they know little about Leafs prospects.

Is the Goat really "ahead of his development"? I mean management decided they'd rather spend a 2nd round pick on Boyle last year than let the Goat keep the job.

I just don't get why we're ready to pencil him into the lineup when he's hardly a dominant force in the AHL either.

We'll see how he looks with a another year in the minors but I'm not going to hold my breath.

 

[wasting time]

There are a lot of inaccuracies to that article. Everything they dredged up about his usage and abilities in the AHL is pretty far off. The only thing that was right was he took major strides forward and improved his skating (among many other things they failed to mention), so it is tough to trust anything they wrote about his AHL season. I find it laughable that they tried comparing him to Froese, when they did not play even remotely the same role. Froese played with Leipsic and Kapanen a lot more than Gauthier ever did, and then a wealth of other guys came in to play higher up too once Froese was dealt.

NHL, sure. Smith may have been a little bit better. I didn't hate Smith. However Babcock liked Gauthier enough to give him 21 NHL games in favour of Smith, who sat in the press box in his place the entire time Gauthier was in the NHL. You know they were grasping at straws when they tried to convince readers that a 21 year old big guy who was already so far ahead in his projected development that he was getting legit NHL ice time is never going to be better than 29 year old Ben Smith because he was slightly worse than him right now. 21 year old Ben Smith was picking his nose in the NCAA. Smith did not even get half the opportunities Gauthier did until he was like 24.

So let's cool the jets on the GOAT hate. He made major strides last year. If his injury does not affect him much, he should make more next year. He was a totally different player than he was last year, and the fact people like Valiev got votes before he even got one shows they know little about Leafs prospects.

Stats don't count - check.
"Article failed to mention improved skating." Wrong - it did. False News - check.

You're just making stuff up now at this point. Gauthier played because Smith was on the IR. A few games they played together when other guys were out. Babcock played GOAT 3 minutes less a game and in far more protected minutes. Then Boyle came.

NCAA Hockey is equivalent to picking your nose now?

It's not hate. It's just not shared delusion.

 

[MJ65]

Bobylev

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Is the Goat really "ahead of his development"? I mean management decided they'd rather spend a 2nd round pick on Boyle last year than let the Goat keep the job.

I just don't get why we're ready to pencil him into the lineup when he's hardly a dominant force in the AHL either.

We'll see how he looks with a another year in the minors but I'm not going to hold my breath.

There was more at play with that Boyle acquisition, like his 100+ games of NHL playoff experience and things he could teach Matthews, Nylander and Kadri as a vet center. It'd be different if Ben Smith took his job back, but as soon as Gauthier came up, Smith never regained his position on the depth chart.

I never expected Gauthier's skating to be as good as it was last year. I did not expect he would ever be capable of a lot of the things he did last year, and I was optimistic about him. He got to the point I thought he would be at after 3 pro seasons a year and a half earlier. I never thought he would get 21 NHL games unless there were serious injuries either.

I think the problem a lot of people are having is that everyone who has made the NHL from the Marlies in recent years has first dominated the AHL offensively. Kapanen, Brown, Nylander, and even Leivo, Rychel and Leipsic were all at, above or near a PPG in the AHL. So I do see your point.

I will raise the counter argument of Soshnikov and Hyman though. Both played more consistent top offensive 6 minutes than Gauthier has received to this point, but Hyman only had a 0.63 PPG and Soshnikov a 0.53 PPG in their AHL careers before making the jump. Hyman made it in with strong forechecking and defensive abilities, not for lighting up the score sheet (this trend continued in the NHL when he put up less than 30 points with two 60+ point players but still played with them all year). Soshnikov was not entirely ready for the jump like I kind of expected, but the point still remains that Babcock picked him over Rychel and Leivo due to non-offensive intangibles and likely would have continued with him had it not been for Kapanen.

Gauthier only has a 0.3 PPG in the AHL career thus far with the caveat that technically Hyman and Soshnikov were not even in the AHL at Gauthier's age (and the aforementioned fact that he did not get the type of offensive opportunities Hyman and Soshnikov received). Gauthier has another half season before he reaches the age Soshnikov started in the AHL, and another full season+ on Hyman. The point being is that you do not need to dominate offensively before making the jump to the NHL. Gauthier is likely never going to dominate offensively. However, he can (and in many cases already has in the AHL) dominate defensively. His defensive play got him the call up (obviously), and his defensive game will likely get him to the NHL some day. I am not going to argue against giving him another year in the AHL to get as much out of his offensive game as he can, get better minutes and fine tune whatever else he needs to, but I find it funny that people are so quick to write him off at this stage given what he has done, but think Timashov is a top 15 prospect.

 

[TLeafsFan]

Sparks with more votes now than Valiev?

Oh well. Based on the ranking list here, some surprises are definitely in store outside of who was selected top 5.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Sparks with more votes now than Valiev?

Oh well. Based on the ranking list here, some surprises are definitely in store outside of who was selected top 5.

Why is that considered a surprise? Even last year they were on a similar standing.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

I don't think Trevor Moore is that special of a prospect, but he should definitely be in our top 20. He's produced at every level so far and is still young.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Stats don't count - check.
"Article failed to mention improved skating." Wrong - it did. False News - check.

You're just making stuff up now at this point. Gauthier played because Smith was on the IR. A few games they played together when other guys were out. Babcock played GOAT 3 minutes less a game and in far more protected minutes. Then Boyle came.

NCAA Hockey is equivalent to picking your nose now?

It's not hate. It's just not shared delusion.

Stats are not the only thing that count. Not my problem if you believe otherwise.

"The only thing that was right was he took major strides forward and improved his skating". That's all they mentioned. They still failed to mention a ton of other things he improved.

NCAA is nothing like the AHL, so comparatively, yes it is. It's not a pro league, and while it is still impressive to do well in that league, it does not mean anything unless it translates to the pros.

I will admit Ben Smith was on the IR longer than I remember, so I will give you that one. That being said, Smith only played <2 minutes more on average than Gauthier, and that includes many times Smith was overused by Babcock and failed miserably. The majority of the time Smith was a mediocre 4C (at best) playing a 4C role. He was not going up against top lines, at least not enough to warrant attention. Both played PK.

And once again I stress we are comparing a 21 year old to a 29 year old as a basis of determining whether the 21 year old will ever make the NHL. Even if that 29 year old was one of the worst players in the NHL, the fact the 21 year old even kept up with him (and many would say outperformed him) and was able to be a call up to the NHL when they could have just called up Froese, who was the Leafs' 4C last year, speaks volumes.

But like your handle suggests, you are just wasting time.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I don't think Trevor Moore is that special of a prospect, but he should definitely be in our top 20. He's produced at every level so far and is still young.

I voted him at 19 but voted Scott this time because I thought he made it over Dzierkals. Weird how Dzierkals made the top 20 after he barely got a PPG in his D+2 year in the CHL. A bunch of things contribute to that, but I would put Moore ahead of him at least. Scott too if we go on potential.

 

[TLeafsFan]

Why is that considered a surprise? Even last year they were on a similar standing.

Didn't Kaskiosuo take over as starter for the Marlies in playoffs?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Didn't Kaskiosuo take over as starter for the Marlies in playoffs?

Sparks was injured. His major blocker at this point and likely the only reason he would ever be this low if he was a prospect. Otherwise he'd probably be in Woll range. He ignited the Marlies' turn around this year and is a rock pretty much every time he is in net. Good chance he beats out McElhinney for the backup job this year.

 

[Battle Lin]

wasting time hates gauthier SO much, like SO much lol, how can you hate a kid THAT much lol

 

[SeaOfBlue]

wasting time hates gauthier SO much, like SO much lol, how can you hate a kid THAT much lol

He is not hating him, but thinking Gauthier is good makes you delusional.