Prospect Info: 2017 Leafs Board Prospect Ranking #13

[darrylsittler27]

Could someone rank our pool please?

I just read one saying we are ranked 8th in the NHL. What do you guys think? I'm not good on other teams pool/prospects but knew Arizona was better than ours. It is hard for me to believe you grad your whole top 7 from last year and then only sink to 8th? Interested in your comments on this.

 

[LeafsRReady]

...after Ben Smith was injured. Yea, Ben Smith (who tore up the AHL when he was a prospect)

Ya, he sucks and yet he's played over 200 NHL games and 36 of those for Babcock. And the Leafs played better with Gauthier than with an experienced NHL player.

 

[wasting time]

Ya, he sucks and yet he's played over 200 NHL games and 36 of those for Babcock. And the Leafs played better with Gauthier than with an experienced NHL player.

You need to watch more hockey. Seriously, you're new at this. Are you seriously correlating 8 minutes a game from a 4th line Center (who scored barely any points whatsoever and did not play on special teams) with Martin & whoever else that day, prior to the trade deadline, was the key winning ingredient post-Christmas? Is this what you are saying?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

...after Ben Smith was injured. Yea, Ben Smith (who tore up the AHL when he was a prospect, unlike Gauthier)

Ben Smith was never the defensive forward Gauthier is. Ben Smith was not even in the AHL at the age Gauthier is right now either.

Finally, Ben Smith did not play on any teams where he was one of the only forwards who truly excelled defensively. On a team that had so many talented offensive forwards who could hardly defend for their lives, a slightly less capable offensive forward who has more defensive talent than all of them combined will likely be used in more defensive situations than offensive situations.

Also, watching Gauthier play last year, his points totals are a lot lower than his true offensive skill, and he still has a ton of potential to grow. Last year was the first year he started to get more physical, and his skating started to improve to the point where he started to be good (and not just for his size).

Gauthier is 7 years younger than Ben Smith, and he outperformed Smith in the NHL last year too. Hopefully his injury does not affect him too much, because had it not been for that, he would have had a >50% shot at making the NHL in 2017-2018, and would have easily been the favourite for the job in 2018-2019 had he not.

 

[wasting time]

Ben Smith was never the defensive forward Gauthier is. Ben Smith was not even in the AHL at the age Gauthier is right now either.

Finally, Ben Smith did not play on any teams where he was one of the only forwards who truly excelled defensively. On a team that had so many talented offensive forwards who could hardly defend for their lives, a slightly less capable offensive forward who has more defensive talent than all of them combined will likely be used in more defensive situations than offensive situations.

Also, watching Gauthier play last year, his points totals are a lot lower than his true offensive skill, and he still has a ton of potential to grow. Last year was the first year he started to get more physical, and his skating started to improve to the point where he started to be good (and not just for his size).

Gauthier is 7 years younger than Ben Smith, and he outperformed Smith in the NHL last year too. Hopefully his injury does not affect him too much, because had it not been for that, he would have had a >50% shot at making the NHL in 2017-2018, and would have easily been the favourite for the job in 2018-2019 had he not.

OK great. All I said he is not an NHL player and will not be qualified next year. We'll see who is right.

 

[LeafsRReady]

You need to watch more hockey. Seriously, you're new at this. Are you seriously correlating 8 minutes a game from a 4th line Center (who scored barely any points whatsoever and did not play on special teams) with Martin & whoever else that day, prior to the trade deadline, was the key winning ingredient post-Christmas? Is this what you are saying?

What I'm saying is that you're saying the Goat is not an NHL player and yet Babcock has put him in NHL games two years in a row. wasting time vs Babcock. Hmm - let me think.

 

[Menzinger]

At 23 how much more really will the Goats game develop?

He might be better than Smith but I don't think I'd want ether on the team at present

 

[Mr Hockey]

At 23 how much more really will the Goats game develop?

He might be better than Smith but I don't think I'd want either on the team at present

I know they trying to get the Goat to switch from a defensive role to offensive role quicker during a shift.

 

[wasting time]

What I'm saying is that you're saying the Goat is not an NHL player and yet Babcock has put him in NHL games two years in a row. wasting time vs Babcock. Hmm - let me think.

Just a quick reminder, 2 years ago the Leafs were the worst team in the NHL (i.e. EVERYONE PLAYED). They picked up Smith off Waivers, then traded for Boyle. They played practically every rookie they could last year. Who the hell was left for 4th line Center? Babcock looked around the room and said "go get the 6'5" kid, who else we got?"

 

[Marmoset]

Ben Smith was never the defensive forward Gauthier is. Ben Smith was not even in the AHL at the age Gauthier is right now either.

Finally, Ben Smith did not play on any teams where he was one of the only forwards who truly excelled defensively. On a team that had so many talented offensive forwards who could hardly defend for their lives, a slightly less capable offensive forward who has more defensive talent than all of them combined will likely be used in more defensive situations than offensive situations.

Also, watching Gauthier play last year, his points totals are a lot lower than his true offensive skill, and he still has a ton of potential to grow. Last year was the first year he started to get more physical, and his skating started to improve to the point where he started to be good (and not just for his size).

Gauthier is 7 years younger than Ben Smith, and he outperformed Smith in the NHL last year too. Hopefully his injury does not affect him too much, because had it not been for that, he would have had a >50% shot at making the NHL in 2017-2018, and would have easily been the favourite for the job in 2018-2019 had he not.

Hold on - are you serious? He had 4 goals and 13 points in 46 AHL games this past season, and about the same pace in the previous season. Are you really suggesting that we should expect any significant jump in offense in the NHL, when he is consistently putting up poor offensive numbers at the AHL level?

I'm not going to argue about Smith's play in that he wasn't that great, and they needed him to play for the expansion draft requirement as much as anything. But Gauthier wasn't significantly better, or he would have played more, and he has done little to suggest he deserves to play in the NHL. As I have said many times, I would be happy if he proves me wrong.

 

[Bullseye]

I know they trying to get the Goat to switch from a defensive role to offensive role quicker during a shift.

It's true they want him to focus on the offensive game more. Boyle provided them a more experienced 4th line centre but not a lot more offence either so the posters here may as well make a Ben Smith/Brian Boyle/Fred Gauthier comparison. Fred is a prospect with 21 games NHL experience.

IMHO he's good for at least #13 in our pool. Nothing crazy about that.

 

[Battle Lin]

in a year where we were fighting for a playoff spot and in the playoffs most the year, meaning we were trying to WIN, babs gave gauthier 21 games at the age of only 22 and he looked decent already

he isnt some star nhler, but imo is gonna be a good role player...lol cant believe he cant crack our top 15, where some guys imo wont even make the league

 

[LeafGrief]

Aaltonen is going to knock our socks off at camp

 

[blueberrie]

There's probably 8-10 prospects I'd still take over the GOAT.

 

[ChrisCall]

Aaltonen is going to knock our socks off at camp

This. Hopefully.

With the Goat, i don't know what his future is. What i do know is that around the time he was drafted, a top scout in junior called him a 'generational defensive player'. How that pans out over time is up for debate, ... and will inevitably be lost comlpetely on lots of people due to lack of production. ... but i would say he has so far proven to be an excellent defender in the NHL... who can also win the faceoff...

I haven't voted for him yet due to the depth of the system, but i also don't want to be caught under rating him. His hockey sense is off the charts. The intelligence of his positioning last year in the NHL, and how well he was able to read plays... the way he moved other players on the ice to where he wanted them to be without ever going near the puck ... (watch and rewatch the video of him and tell me you don't see the brilliance of it) ... just by being able to see the game several moves ahead of where it is in the moment like a star chess player ... it blew my mind. He was at times the best defensive forward on the ice and it wasn't even close.

His offensive ceiling might be 10-15 points. Entirely possible. But he wins everywhere he goes for a reason.

 

[MagicalRazor]

13 and adam brooks is still here wow. he had 90! primary points this past season

 

[Man Bear Pig]

There's probably 8-10 prospects I'd still take over the GOAT.

Same. I took Brooks. I'm off the GOAT train. It was fun while it lasted but the guy is a fourth line NHLer at best. You can't tell me that Brooks,Rosen,Greenway etc dont have higher upside.

 

[wasting time]

This. Hopefully.

With the Goat, i don't know what his future is. What i do know is that around the time he was drafted, a top scout in junior called him a 'generational defensive player'. How that pans out over time is up for debate, ... and will inevitably be lost comlpetely on lots of people due to lack of production. ... but i would say he has so far proven to be an excellent defender in the NHL... who can also win the faceoff...

I haven't voted for him yet due to the depth of the system, but i also don't want to be caught under rating him. His hockey sense is off the charts. The intelligence of his positioning last year in the NHL, and how well he was able to read plays... the way he moved other players on the ice to where he wanted them to be without ever going near the puck ... (watch and rewatch the video of him and tell me you don't see the brilliance of it) ... just by being able to see the game several moves ahead of where it is in the moment like a star chess player ... it blew my mind. He was at times the best defensive forward on the ice and it wasn't even close.

His offensive ceiling might be 10-15 points. Entirely possible. But he wins everywhere he goes for a reason.

1 scout may have considered him a "generational defensive player" as a JUNIOR, but the reality is that 4th line centers in the NHL are predominately guys who can score in the minors but realize they are not good enough to do the same in the NHL. So they reinvent themselves into defensive centers. As such, they can still score once in a while. GOAT cannot even claim being a scorer in the minors.

You guys hanging your hat 21 games under Babcock clearly are not watching closely.
- GOAT did not make the team last year in a year where clearly TONS of rookies did
- Instead they claimed a guy off waivers from one of the worst teams in the past decade
- He sucked, but they kept playing him
- He gets injured - GOAT gets called up (because who else is there?)
- Scores 3 points in 21 games, gets sent back down when Smith is off IR
- Then Boyle is signed.

Tea leaves here guys. The Leafs would rather sign a guy off waivers from Colorado, then trade away a 2nd round pick and a prospect NOT TO PLAY Gauther.

 

[Bullseye]

1 scout may have considered him a "generational defensive player" as a JUNIOR, but the reality is that 4th line centers in the NHL are predominately guys who can score in the minors but realize they are not good enough to do the same in the NHL. So they reinvent themselves into defensive centers. As such, they can still score once in a while. GOAT cannot even claim being a scorer in the minors.

You guys hanging your hat 21 games under Babcock clearly are not watching closely.
- GOAT did not make the team last year in a year where clearly TONS of rookies did
- Instead they claimed a guy off waivers from one of the worst teams in the past decade
- He sucked, but they kept playing him
- He gets injured - GOAT gets called up (because who else is there?)
- Scores 3 points in 21 games, gets sent back down when Smith is off IR
- Then Boyle is signed.

Tea leaves here guys. The Leafs would rather sign a guy off waivers from Colorado, then trade away a 2nd round pick and a prospect NOT TO PLAY Gauther.

So getting Brian Boyle for a playoff run has everything to do with the Goat not being good enough to be the #13 prospect in our pool? Experienced NHL playoff centreman>a 22 yr. old rookie. Yes he must be a bust. Boyle must also be a bust to the stats watcher - 3 pts in 21 games. Maybe there's more to evaluating a 4th line centre than the number of points he tallies.