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Prospect Info: 2017 Carolina Hurricanes Prospect Ranking

Anton Dubinchuk

Anton Dubinchuk

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Lethargic said:
Gauthier is the hardest to determine, I ranked him high in my list sent to Dave. He's a boom or meh guy. I think his upside is Ladd or Cole. If not, he's going to be a 3rd line wrecker.
Click to expand...

I think Cole is a good comparison. Big, fast, and just good enough at hockey to be a Top 6er. Lots of north/south, not a ton of finesse or passing.

I always think of Goat like Nichushkin in my head. Similar play styles, builds, and probably ceilings.
 
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My Special Purpose

My Special Purpose

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Although that does seem to be the prevailing opinion regarding Gauthier, RF has gone out of his way lately to talk about the vast improvements he has made over the past year. That doesn't sound to me like a guy who succeeded due to a physical advantage. It sounds to me like he worked on his game to the point that he even surprised some folks who already had high hopes for him.

In the best of times, the power forward game takes time to develop (see Lucic, Milan and Cole, Erik). If anything, I think Gauthier may be on track for even better things that we thought.

Or Ronnie may just be talking him up to have him included in the Duchene trade.
 
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Anton Dubinchuk

Anton Dubinchuk

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I certainly hope you're right, Kev, it'd be great to have that. I'll admit I don't watch the guy, it's all secondary sources feeding my opinion.

The "he can't complete a pass" criticism scared me a bit.

Also to note: this doesn't mean I don't like the guy. I think he's probably the surest NHLer in our system, the size/speed combo gives him that.

And, let me append one more of my previous statements: the size/speed combo gives the guy a VERY high ceiling. I just think that the probability curve is highly skewed to the right for him, the kind of guy that might've been rated in the 9.0D category were HF to still do that type of thing. But, I don't think he's boom or bust, I think he's "less likely to boom, or high floor."
 
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NotOpie

NotOpie

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totaltank said:
Although that does seem to be the prevailing opinion regarding Gauthier, RF has gone out of his way lately to talk about the vast improvements he has made over the past year. That doesn't sound to me like a guy who succeeded due to a physical advantage. It sounds to me like he worked on his game to the point that he even surprised some folks who already had high hopes for him.

In the best of times, the power forward game takes time to develop (see Lucic, Milan and Cole, Erik). If anything, I think Gauthier may be on track for even better things that we thought.

Or Ronnie may just be talking him up to have him included in the Duchene trade.
Click to expand...

When drafted the primary rap on Gauthier was that he didn't know how to use his teammates (or just chose not to). This was best exemplified by his gaudy goal scoring numbers juxtaposed with his relatively low assist totals.

My understanding was that this was something he was told he would need to improve. Lo and behold, he flips his numbers and becomes a much more balanced overall scorer (yet in the playoffs and in international play he again demonstrated his goal scoring prowess). I do believe there's still a learning curve in that he needs to balance his instincts with his intellect, relying more on the former than the latter. Even in my few live viewings, I've seen Gauthier make some very slick passes to go along with his bull rushes.

I believe the time in the AHL will be invaluable, but I don't believe his floor is as low as some do.
 
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geehaad

geehaad

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NotOpie said:
When drafted the primary rap on Gauthier was that he didn't know how to use his teammates (or just chose not to). This was best exemplified by his gaudy goal scoring numbers juxtaposed with his relatively low assist totals.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure who was imposing that rap, but I'm not sure where it's justified when looking at the numbers prior to being drafted. This is ignoring the "eye test", because I don't have one (literally, poison ivy has one of my eyes swollen shut, atm):

62GP/9G/21A
68GP/38G/35A
54GP/41G/16A

Couple that with this past year:

46GP/17G/34A

I'm not saying those assist numbers prove he utilized his teammates, but the year where he had nearly 3x goals more than assists is clearly an anomaly. If assists do, even in a small way, measure his ability to utilize his teammates, he's doing just fine, thankyouverymuch.
 
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NotOpie

NotOpie

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geehaad said:
I'm not sure who was imposing that rap, but I'm not sure where it's justified when looking at the numbers prior to being drafted. This is ignoring the "eye test", because I don't have one (literally, poison ivy has one of my eyes swollen shut, atm):

62GP/9G/21A
68GP/38G/35A
54GP/41G/16A

Couple that with this past year:

46GP/17G/34A

I'm not saying those assist numbers prove he utilized his teammates, but the year where he had nearly 3x more assists than goals is clearly an anomaly. If assists do, even in a small way, measure his ability to utilize his teammates, he's doing just fine, thankyouverymuch.
Click to expand...

G - the rap came from a number of folks (I'll look for the links if I can), but there were also rumors that this was the thing the coaches told him to work on. While it doesn't always manifest itself in increased assist totals, the issue, if I understand it correctly had a lot to do with doing more than just "going to the front of the net" both with and without the puck.

As far as saying this season is an anomaly, I beg to differ. To me it reflects a guy who made a significant attempt to hear what his coaches are telling him and to attempt to improve in a particular area. One only has to look at what our own Haydn Fleury did. Many have rightfully defended his D+1 season and its reduced offensive output on the coaches efforts to get him to specifically focus on the defensive side of the puck. He did and was praised for it.

Finally, just watching Gauthier in the prospects camp and game, the clear difference is that he actually looked to make the pass if it was there. If not, then so be it, I'll just bull my way to the net....and I don't care how big your are as an NHLer, when a 6'4", 225 lbs. freight train of solid muscle bears down on you, you're still going to have a tough time with him.

EDIT: Not the exact quote, but a quick find:

“He’s a finisher, with a great release. The change he made with us was to play a more complete game."

http://www.heraldsun.com/sports/hockey/carolina-hurricanes/article158604479.html
 
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My Special Purpose

My Special Purpose

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The bottom line is that there seems to be across-the-board buy-in from our prospects the past few years as far as taking advice from management to heart. And I think a lot of that comes down to the type of guys we're drafting. We're drafting hockey players now. Guys who eat, sleep and breathe hockey, who understand it, and want to play at the highest level.

I know it seems obvious -- if you want to make the NHL, listen to the guys who have done it -- but there are some guys who really just don't care (see Tanabe, David or Murphy, Ryan or literally countless others). For a while, I was worried Elias Lindholm would fit into this group. Now I'm hopeful we've surrounded him with enough hard-workers that he's had a real awakening.

To me, it's one of the best parts of this rebuild. I just really like these guys because they really seem to care about winning in Carolina.
 
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Bjornar Moxnes

Bjornar Moxnes

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Anton Dubinchuk said:
That's awesome Kev thank you.

Based on that list, I've removed anyone over 24 or with more than 25 NHL games played, and that list is below (sorted by points scored last year in their respective seasons):

Morgan Geekie (C)
Nicolas Roy (C)
Spencer Smallman (RW)
Hudson Elynuik (C)
Warren Foegele (LW)
Janne Kuokkanen (C/LW)
Steven Lorentz (C/LW)
Stelio Mattheos (RW/C)
Andrew Poturalski (C)
Julien Gauthier (RW)
Lucas Wallmark (C)
Jake Bean (D)
Aleksi Saarela (C/LW)
Valentin Zykov (RW/LW)
Josh Wesley (D)
Gregory Hofmann (C/LW)
Eetu Luostarinen (C)
Haydn Fleury (D)
Noah Carroll (D)
David Cotton (C)
Ville Räsänen (D)
Brendan De Jong (D)
Sergei Tolchinsky (LW/RW)
Matt Filipe (LW/C)
Martin Necas (C/RW)
Clark Bishop (C)
Trevor Carrick (D)
Brendan Collier (LW)
Roland McKeown (D)
Max Zimmer (LW)
Luke Martin (D)
Keegan Kanzig (D)
Luke Stevens (LW)
Tyler Ganly (D)
Callum Booth (G)
Jack LaFontaine (G)
Eetu Mäkiniemi (G)
Jeremy Helvig (G)
Alex Nedeljkovic (G)
Collin Olson (G)

Please let me know if I've made any mistakes, but this should be an ok list to go off of.
Click to expand...

Lol when I first saw this list I was like "So Big Breyden finally made it in the NHL..." Then I realized it was Brendan De Jong, not Breyden De Jong... I swear the Canes have far too many players that have some sort of connection to my life lol (De Jong has the exact name except for Breyden and Brendan as one of my friends). Patrick Brown is the Anglo name version of my best friend in North Carolina, and of course I know people who know Lindholm and Carrick personally (Best part is these people lived in both of mentioned players hometowns).
 
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Joe McGrath

Joe McGrath

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totaltank said:
The bottom line is that there seems to be across-the-board buy-in from our prospects the past few years as far as taking advice from management to heart. And I think a lot of that comes down to the type of guys we're drafting. We're drafting hockey players now. Guys who eat, sleep and breathe hockey, who understand it, and want to play at the highest level.

I know it seems obvious -- if you want to make the NHL, listen to the guys who have done it -- but there are some guys who really just don't care (see Tanabe, David or Murphy, Ryan or literally countless others). For a while, I was worried Elias Lindholm would fit into this group. Now I'm hopeful we've surrounded him with enough hard-workers that he's had a real awakening.

To me, it's one of the best parts of this rebuild. I just really like these guys because they really seem to care about winning in Carolina.
Click to expand...

Interestingly you named Murphy and Tanabe who both were similar players and both had severe concussions early in their career. May have effected their desire to eat/sleep/breathe hockey. Not a knock on your overall point as there were "countless others" as you said that fit a similar mold without the head injury aspect.
 
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My Special Purpose

My Special Purpose

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Joe McGrath said:
Interestingly you named Murphy and Tanabe who both were similar players and both had severe concussions early in their career. May have effected their desire to eat/sleep/breathe hockey. Not a knock on your overall point as there were "countless others" as you said that fit a similar mold without the head injury aspect.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I didn't put much research into examples. Those two just stood out as guys who didn't seem to care much what management had to say in terms of improving their games. Tanabe was uncoachable way before he was injured. He was the single most overconfident guy I've ever met, and that's saying something in an NHL locker room. There's no way our current management team would draft a guy like Tanabe.

But my point was really about development. Our prospects seem to be *developing* now and not just getting older. Some of that has to do with our long-term plan, but a lot of it has to do with the type of players. These kids are coachable, and it's fun to watch. Kinda has a Patriots vibe to it, where Belichick believes in drafting football players and figures out roles later.
 
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Joe McGrath

Joe McGrath

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totaltank said:
Yeah, I didn't put much research into examples. Those two just stood out as guys who didn't seem to care much what management had to say in terms of improving their games. Tanabe was uncoachable way before he was injured. He was the single most overconfident guy I've ever met, and that's saying something in an NHL locker room. There's no way our current management team would draft a guy like Tanabe.

But my point was really about development. Our prospects seem to be *developing* now and not just getting older. Some of that has to do with our long-term plan, but a lot of it has to do with the type of players. These kids are coachable, and it's fun to watch. Kinda has a Patriots vibe to it, where Belichick believes in drafting football players and figures out roles later.
Click to expand...

I agree, the focus on development seems to have improved. I also saw a statistic or chart somewhere the other day that the Canes now have about the average number of resources dedicated to scouting as the rest of the league. I know that certainly hasn't always been the case.
 
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