Salary Cap: 2017-18 Roster Building Thread VI | Contract/FA charts in Post #1 | CAP SET at $75M

[Lustaf]

Oshie for 8 years is insane but it seems pretty clear Washington was scared ****less of taking a step back in loosing him.

 

[66-30-33]

Do they have the defenseman?

Nope. I think it comes down to Islanders and Hurricanes.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

It's one phone call to tell them they're talking out of their behinds and it would be nice if they backtracked - or to do a different journalist telling them they can release their story about how Phil is great and not getting traded. This isn't a strenuous difficult task, it's five minutes of doing their every day job.

Also, if they're anything like any other major organisation I know of, every day they're getting an email filled with everything said about them in the media. Maybe it's different in the US, but in the UK, they will know, the information will have been passed to them.

So you're saying that instead of the simple explanation, it's that the organization decided the best way to help the team move Phil is to spread rumors about him being a problem, and consequently driving his value down?

 

[KIRK]

I think Skej + 1st + conditional pick next year is a reasonable basis of a trade

It will cost them a young forward too, and honestly, I wouldn't mind if they did that . . . they are so weak on the blueline, it would be cutting the nose to spite the face.

 

[Peat]

It's one thing to want ruthlessness if you aren't having success or struggling, as they were, but they haven't even lost a flipping series yet since Kessel got here, why the eff would you want change for the sake of change. Which is what that would be tantamount to considering the results so far. It's not even like he's been a passenger in the two wins, he's been key. The only move that makes sense is to wait until they actually encounter a problem, and then work to fix it, not fix non-existent issues that may or may not happen. JR seems like a pragmatic dude, if it stops working then I expect changes.

I'm pretty sure people here have been demanding ruthlessness to ensure the organisation keeps moving forwards and keep winning. The whole "Don't sit still, don't assume what worked last year will work next".

Also, you shouldn't wait until you actually have problems, because it's a lot harder to solve a problem once its obvious to everyone.

Which is not to say Phil is a problem, a passenger or anything like that.

Its to say that saying trading Phil falls outside the "Don't sit still, don't assume what worked last year will work next" thing is wrong. If it improves the organisation, do it. Difficult to see how it will do it... but I assume, if it doesn't actually do so, Rutherford won't do it.

 

[Lustaf]

I expect Duchene to start the season in Colorado.

Joe is a joke of a GM and he doesn't have the balls to pull the trigger.

 

[mpp9]

It will cost them a young forward too, and honestly, I wouldn't mind if they did that . . . they are so weak on the blueline, it would be cutting the nose to spite the face.

Isles writer is saying Sakic is dragging Snow through the mud again.

 

[T1K]

It will cost them a young forward too, and honestly, I wouldn't mind if they did that . . . they are so weak on the blueline, it would be cutting the nose to spite the face.

Neither would I, as much as I like Duchene. They have a huge need for a 1C after trading Stepan. I would think Skjei and Hayes/Miller/Buchnevich would be too much, maybe the Avs send something back if they're able to land two roster players for Duchene.

 

[Peat]

So you're saying that instead of the simple explanation, it's that the organization decided the best way to help the team move Phil is to spread rumors about him being a problem, and consequently driving his value down?

If multiple journos are giving the same story on a sports team, then the idea that the team don't mind it being out there is a simpler explanation than some guy's not doing his job.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Since nobody in the NFL is smart enough to copy the pats and Bellichick, maybe it takes someone from another league to do what they do to remain on top.

Already see some similarities since sully took over. Getting production from basically everyone plugged into the lineup. The system is the main reason(like the pats).

If they did trade kessel, that's another pats type move. They do what's best for the organization, not players. They don't get stale, getting attached to players keeping them past their prime. They either let them go before they decline or will trade an important player knowing he won't re-sign. Isntwd of letting them walk for nothing. I don't see us trading kessel now, but if in a year or two he slows down a bit...why not? Get a solid return and look towards the future. Don't just keep him around because of what he's done for us so far. Again, saying only if he slows down.

Next thing would to be to bring in someone like Kane. Over the years , the pats have brought in very talented players who other teams were afraid to sign because of being a "lockeroom cancer". Yet when they went there, things were fine. Got great production from them.

Anyways, pats stay on top by doing things the right way. And for some reason, teams can't follow suit. It starts with coaching/system and thats what we have right now over others (just like the pats...imagine the steelers roster with Bellichick... My God). Now they need to follow suit by not keeping players too long. Do what's best for the team. And occasionally, get the talented " lockeroom cancer " for a cheap price

 

[KIRK]

Isles writer is saying Sakic is dragging Snow through the mud again.

He did it to JR at the deadline. From what I gather, both Snow and JR eventually said yes to Sakic, and Sakic backed out on both of them.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Yeah, sure, you cling to that. The media are the team's lapdogs, and you never hear concerted voices about a narrative unless the team at least winks. But, a concerted narrative that Phil drives the coaches nuts (and some ancillary narratives) is just too small fries for a PR unit that smacks anyone in the media at the most modest of slights. But, hey, whatever makes you feel better.

And yet you still cannot name any people involved in this "concerted narrative."


I'm done talking about this, unless some legit names/sources can be referenced.

 

[KIRK]

If multiple journos are giving the same story on a sports team, then the idea that the team don't mind it being out there is a simpler explanation than some guy's not doing his job.

Correct in general. Absolutely correct with this team. If they wanted this concerted narrative ended, it would be over.

Look, as I said in the beginning, I don't see dealing Kessel. And, even if they're toying with it, it's a big leap from toying to doing, which is why this narrative being out there unchallenged makes sense . . . plausible deniability if, as expected, nothing comes of it, but groundwork laid and media lapdogs on board in case something actually happens.

And yet you still cannot name any people involved in this "concerted narrative."


I'm done talking about this, unless some legit names/sources can be referenced.

Our loss, for sure.

 

[KIRK]

Since nobody in the NFL is smart enough to copy the pats and Bellichick, maybe it takes someone from another league to do what they do to remain on top.

Already see some similarities since sully took over. Getting production from basically everyone plugged into the lineup. The system is the main reason(like the pats).

If they did trade kessel, that's another pats type move. They do what's best for the organization, not players. They don't get stale, getting attached to players keeping them past their prime. They either let them go before they decline or will trade an important player knowing he won't re-sign. Isntwd of letting them walk for nothing. I don't see us trading kessel now, but if in a year or two he slows down a bit...why not? Get a solid return and look towards the future. Don't just keep him around because of what he's done for us so far. Again, saying only if he slows down.

Next thing would to be to bring in someone like Kane. Over the years , the pats have brought in very talented players who other teams were afraid to sign because of being a "lockeroom cancer". Yet when they went there, things were fine. Got great production from them.

Anyways, pats stay on top by doing things the right way. And for some reason, teams can't follow suit. It starts with coaching/system and thats what we have right now over others (just like the pats...imagine the steelers roster with Bellichick... My God). Now they need to follow suit by not keeping players too long. Do what's best for the team. And occasionally, get the talented " lockeroom cancer " for a cheap price

Trading Kessel would be a ruthless move.

 

[DeadPuckEra]

This Kessel stuff is asinine, I don't care who knows who here. Team is coming off back to back cups and the guy was not only a huge part of that, but is universally loved in this city. Whatever little quirks he has as a player are irrelevant right now.

Do you know who else drives the coaches nutts, Malkin. So what, they're winning championships and they're set up to win more. Anyone buying into this crap needs to get out of the house.

 

[Brandinho]

Trading Kessel would be a ruthless move.

Indeed. Ruthless and stupid are not mutually exclusive.

 

[KIRK]

This Kessel stuff is asinine, I don't care who knows who here. Team is coming off back to back cups and the guy was not only a huge part of that, but is universally loved in this city. Whatever little quirks he has as a player are irrelevant right now.

Do you know who else drives the coaches nutts, Malkin. So what, they're winning championships and they're set up to win more. Anyone buying into this crap needs to get out of the house.

Question (not just for you): When the narrative started about James Neal, what did you post about that? Not after the trade, but at the time?

EDIT: Has it dawned on you why you'll never hear multiple voices talking about Malkin driving the coaches nuts? Here's a hint: Because even if it does, the Pens will directly and through their media lackeys smack down anyone who says that. It's the Pens' media lackeys right now who are pushing the Kessel narrative. And pushed the Neal narrative two years ago. But, whatever makes you feel better . . .

AND AGAIN, I DON'T SEE DEALING KESSEL. I'M ONLY COMMENTING ON THE PECULIAR THING THE PENS MEDIA LACKEYS ARE UP TO, AND IT MATCHES SOMETHING A SOURCE ONE OF THE MODS HERE KNOWS ABOUT SAID TO ME 10 DAYS AGO.

 

[CertifiedLurker]

I'm pretty sure people here have been demanding ruthlessness to ensure the organisation keeps moving forwards and keep winning. The whole "Don't sit still, don't assume what worked last year will work next".

Also, you shouldn't wait until you actually have problems, because it's a lot harder to solve a problem once its obvious to everyone.

Which is not to say Phil is a problem, a passenger or anything like that.

Its to say that saying trading Phil falls outside the "Don't sit still, don't assume what worked last year will work next" thing is wrong. If it improves the organisation, do it. Difficult to see how it will do it... but I assume, if it doesn't actually do so, Rutherford won't do it.

They largely sat still and won two cups back-to-back. Doing nothing works if its not broken.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Trading Kessel would be a ruthless move.

Right now yeah. And I wouldn't do it now...ruthlessness aside. He's still a great player. So don't know where this is coming from anyways.

Just talking about a few years from.now if they can see him slipping a bit. You have to be on top of that and make that trade before he falls off and get some valuable back. You don't keep players just because of what they did for you in the past. Its a business, and why the pats have stayed on top.

If the steelers had half of their smarts, this past era...we would have 4 more Superbowls. Way more talented than them, but that's where it ends

And like I said with the pens, great news is it looks like we are exactly like the pats when it comes to coaching/system. And have the talent in place already. There's a reason we won back to back cups tho, and it wasn't just due to talent. Or that would have happened under bylsma.

I'm excited about our future because of who we have behind the bench.

 

[mpp9]

I wouldn't rock the boat, but I'm cool with trading anyone not named Sid or Geno if it improves the team.

 

[KIRK]

They largely sat still and won two cups back-to-back. Doing nothing works if its not broken.

Until it doesn't work.

They key is to figure out when the music is going to stop, not figure it out after it has stopped. Ray Shero never did (or refused to). I'm not sure JR is inclined to repeat that mistake given how well set up this team is in so many respects.

 

[KIRK]

I wouldn't rock the boat, but I'm cool with trading anyone not named Sid or Geno if it improves the team.

Apparently, some people here have a far more expansive list than you (or I) do.

EDIT: I'd add Murray right now.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

So.... how good would Big Joe look as 3C

 

[T1K]

Question (not just for you): When the narrative started about James Neal, what did you post about that? Not after the trade, but at the time?

EDIT: Has it dawned on you why you'll never hear multiple voices talking about Malkin driving the coaches nuts? Here's a hint: Because even if it does, the Pens will directly and through their media lackeys smack down anyone who says that. It's the Pens' media lackeys right now who are pushing the Kessel narrative. And pushed the Neal narrative two years ago. But, whatever makes you feel better . . .

I don't have a take regarding narratives the media is pushing-- most of our media members are chumps, but the Neal trade was far more obvious/realistic. Trading Kessel doesn't seem like a logical move unless a team is actively trying to trade for him and is willing to pay a premium for him.

People are floating the idea, but what sort of trade is even being speculated? I haven't spent any time reading into this rumor at all.

 

[Peat]

They largely sat still and won two cups back-to-back. Doing nothing works if its not broken.

They won the second one by doing not much. They won the first one by doing a lot.

And we don't know yet what the best approach for the next one will be.