Prospect Info: 2017-18 Flyers Prospects - Top 30 SKATERS, #20

[Rebels57]

I've voted for him in the last few polls, but we won't know if Vecchione is better on draws or defense than Laughton till he is playing in the NHL.

For sure. I am just going off of what those that have watched him a lot say about his ability on draws and defense. He also looked like he had good faceoff technique in my limited viewings of him. He did win 8 out of 12 in his 1st NHL game, which is impressive all things considered.

http://puckbase.com/player/mike-vecchione

 

[Flyerfan13]

My how things have changed in our prospect pool when a forward free agent hobey baker finalist may be our 20th best prospect in the system and that does not include where the goalies fit in. #future is bright

 

[sobrien]

Going to 30 players in a top 30 poll just seems silly.

WOW! missed that. Thanks!

 

[Tripod]

My how things have changed in our prospect pool when a forward free agent hobey baker finalist may be our 20th best prospect in the system and that does not include where the goalies fit in. #future is bright

Just as a comparison, Zac Auston-Reese was Pittsburgh's College signing this summer. He is ranked 3rd in their prospects voting poll.

But I would trade all the kids for cups.

 

[Rebels57]

Just as a comparison, Zac Auston-Reese was Pittsburgh's College signing this summer. He is ranked 3rd in their prospects voting poll.

But I would trade all the kids for cups.

This.

I will say this though, it's gonna be a freefall down the standings for Pitt once Crosby-Malkin drop off.

 

[deadhead]

If I'm Leier, I'd be pissed at y'all.

He played 10 NHL games, didn't embarrass himself, showed steady improvement in the WHL and the AHL, can skate, is responsibly defensively, and doesn't turn 24 until February.

And you want to vote some kid who can't shave or a geriatric college player ahead of him?

Shame!

It does show how much deeper the system is, Leier was a mid-teens selection the last couple years, improves and now can't crack the top 20. Put him on waivers, however, and I'll bet he doesn't last 10 minutes.

 

[Curufinwe]

Leier is only one year younger than Vecchione.

 

[tymed]

I've always been a big Leier fan, got to see him over a handful of times in juniors. His finish is gonna have to continue to improve as he's not much of a play maker in the offensive end. He makes quick decisions and is effective in getting the puck going up the ice. Although he needs to be centered by a more creative player that likes the puck on their stick, he's always been good at reading off of players and plays.

I think he's an NHL'er and that the reason he's slipped this year in the poll, aside from continued development and influx of higher end prospects, is that yet another crucial year in his near-closed window in this organization has come to pass with little to show. Right now it looks as though he'll be starting once again in LV. He's got other bottom 6 vets above him with contracts we may just be stuck playing out, and he's got a horde of younger and better prospects behind him that are about to start blowing down the door he's been too politely knocking on for too long. If he gets another shot this year, he better make sure he clinches it because if not then he's likely on another team's prospect poll next summer.

 

[Alex91]

If I'm Leier, I'd be pissed at y'all.

He played 10 NHL games, didn't embarrass himself, showed steady improvement in the WHL and the AHL, can skate, is responsibly defensively, and doesn't turn 24 until February.

And you want to vote some kid who can't shave or a geriatric college player ahead of him?

Shame!

It does show how much deeper the system is, Leier was a mid-teens selection the last couple years, improves and now can't crack the top 20. Put him on waivers, however, and I'll bet he doesn't last 10 minutes.

Leier issue is that he isn't good enough to beat anyone off the current roster.

2Gs
7Ds
8F locks
2F prospects that near locks
2F in weise and lethera that they are committed to for one more year

That pretty much leaves two roster spots for Read, Laughton, Vecchione and/or Leier. Vecchione has options so that eliminates him. Laughton has a better track record then Leier and is "owed" one more opportunity. That's leaves the last spot for the 14th FW (Weise being 13th). I think the Flyers would rather take the chance of placing Leier on waivers and hoping he continues to improve on the first line in the AHL then being a hs 75% of the year.

 

[Pantokrator]

This.

I will say this though, it's gonna be a freefall down the standings for Pitt once Crosby-Malkin drop off.

Pfft. Winning a few draft lotteries will fix that in seasons when the next generational talents comes out.

 

[Magua]

What is wrong with people for not yet voting Leier?!

Leier was impressive in terms of AHL play, but not physically, he's not a highly skilled speed forward nor a big, tough forechecker (he has the heart but not the body). So he gets docked as a "tweener," similar to Cousins. It's just hard to find a role for these guys.

Leier might get claimed, but he's not a huge loss, he can play in the NHL but isn't going to be good enough for this team, isn't skilled enough for a top 9 spot, isn't big enough to be a great fit on a checking line.

Shame!

As for improving, on a significantly better team, where he got all-situations prime usage, his point totals went from 49 to 54 (71 game pace). He didn't blow the doors off; easier to argue he stagnated. And I reckon he would clear waivers. He's a fine player, whether it's as a AAAA guy or a potential solid 4th line piece, but frankly, those guys aren't that hard to find. Hitting on an upside guy matters a lot more. Just rather ironic to drive the Leier bus after ripping on him and spending all season saying he wasn't an upgrade on VandeVelde......

 

[Tripod]

Nothing wrong with Leier...could be an NHLer.

But he is now fighting for 4th line duties against guys that have played in our top 6 the last few years....Raffl, Read, Weise, Laughton, etc...

 

[Rebels57]

What is wrong with people for not yet voting Leier?!





Shame!

As for improving, on a significantly better team, where he got all-situations prime usage, his point totals went from 49 to 54 (71 game pace). He didn't blow the doors off; easier to argue he stagnated. And I reckon he would clear waivers. He's a fine player, whether it's as a AAAA guy or a potential solid 4th line piece, but frankly, those guys aren't that hard to find. Hitting on an upside guy matters a lot more. Just rather ironic to drive the Leier bus after ripping on him and spending all season saying he wasn't an upgrade on VandeVelde......

Thank you for doing the leg work that I didn't feel like doing.

Dude changes his opinions like the wind.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Thought I was the only one who noticed that.

Also 5'10 176. He's just a fun size forward.

 

[Magua]

Thank you for doing the leg work that I didn't feel like doing.

Dude changes his opinions like the wind.

I didn't dig deep. Those were from all of a couple weeks ago.

 

[Merchant]

I will say this though, it's gonna be a freefall down the standings for Pitt once Crosby-Malkin drop off.

Not to worry...Mario will whine, and Uncle Gary will find a way to take care of them.

 

[deadhead]

It's the exact same opinion, we're talking the 20th SKATER on this team.
MV is a college player who was undrafted, but people assume because he had good college stats he can play.
And someone like Cates is years away from playing at a level where you'll be able to guage his talent.
Leier has actually played in the NHL, and wasn't totally outmatched (he actually looked better than Weal the previous year).

So yeah, Leier may be a 4th line forward, and on another team, but he's probably has the highest probability of playing in the NHL of anyone left on this list. And yes, I'd expect him to be claimed on waivers, look at the dreck playing on the 4th line for us the last five years - you don't think there's a half dozen NHL teams with worse players at the bottom of their roster?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I get what you're saying about Leier. But he just doesn't seem to have any real NHL upside to me. I could see him making it as a 10 minutes per game 4th liner, for sure. But he's small and not particularly skilled. Doesn't take faceoffs. He's the definition of fungible. I don't blame people for voting for guys who seem to have higher ceilings in this leftover group of candidates.

 

[deadhead]

Players who are far away from the AHL (much less the NHL) have more "upside" because you can project from basically no data (gee, he looks like he might be a player in five years). Even the first couple junior years, well, he's only 17 . . .

My problem is the odds are really long against prospects, and get shorter only as they get older and produce. With top prospects, they have already produced or showed a lot of flashes (Frost, Ratcliffe). With someone like Kase, well, we have no clue until he plays a year in the SHL, at least with Hogberg and Bernhardt, they have enough SHL games to know they weren't overmatched. Same with Provorev in the KHL.

So while it's nice that say Cates has a skill set, he hasn't even played USHL hockey yet. At least with Marody, you have someone who's produced at the major college level, though his behavior does raise some red flags.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

With someone like Kase, well, we have no clue until he plays a year in the SHL, at least with Hogberg and Bernhardt, they have enough SHL games to know they weren't overmatched. Same with Provorev in the KHL

I must be misunderstanding because you can't possibly be saying Provorov played in the KHL.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Players who are far away from the AHL (much less the NHL) have more "upside" because you can project from basically no data (gee, he looks like he might be a player in five years). Even the first couple junior years, well, he's only 17 . . .

My problem is the odds are really long against prospects, and get shorter only as they get older and produce. With top prospects, they have already produced or showed a lot of flashes (Frost, Ratcliffe). With someone like Kase, well, we have no clue until he plays a year in the SHL, at least with Hogberg and Bernhardt, they have enough SHL games to know they weren't overmatched. Same with Provorev in the KHL.

So while it's nice that say Cates has a skill set, he hasn't even played USHL hockey yet. At least with Marody, you have someone who's produced at the major college level, though his behavior does raise some red flags.

I agree. I voted Bernhardt. I'm just saying I understand why Leier was left out. There's nothing exciting about a 5'10 170 lbs. 4th line wing.

 

[deadhead]

Opps, Vorobyev, those Russian names all sound alike.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I must be misunderstanding because you can't possibly be saying Provorov played in the KHL.

I think he meant Vorobyev.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Got it.

 

[Alex91]

It's the exact same opinion, we're talking the 20th SKATER on this team.
MV is a college player who was undrafted, but people assume because he had good college stats he can play.
And someone like Cates is years away from playing at a level where you'll be able to guage his talent.
Leier has actually played in the NHL, and wasn't totally outmatched (he actually looked better than Weal the previous year).

So yeah, Leier may be a 4th line forward, and on another team, but he's probably has the highest probability of playing in the NHL of anyone left on this list. And yes, I'd expect him to be claimed on waivers, look at the dreck playing on the 4th line for us the last five years - you don't think there's a half dozen NHL teams with worse players at the bottom of their roster?

The question is how do you make room for Leier? I think he can play NHL 4th minutes. Just no room for him.

40-28-17
96-19-93
51-14-11
12-xx-xx
in some order that should be top 10.

Lethera has inside track for 4C, with Laughton being only comp.

Weise will be first fill-in if someone in top 9 go down. And if he really impresses in camp he might even get stapled to Konecny-Couts and move Flippula to 4C (doubtful tho).

Read should be 14th FW and waived if needed. even if we have multi injuries I can see him still being a hs and someone from the AHL filling in. Similar to RJ.

That leaves Laughton vs Leier. Both cant be on the roster at once (minus 2+ injuries). Laughton has more upside and size. Laughton was also protected, which means that didn't want to lose him for nothing.

I hope Leier clears waivers if waived. Only having to go through waivers once is huge. their will prob be more talented players being waived that day as well so his chances decreased with that alone.