Prospect Info: 2017-18 Flyers Prospects - Top 30 SKATERS, #16

[BernieParent]

Water bear.

 

[tymed]

For the sake of discussion, I'm really curious why so many are choosing Bunnaman over Strome? I haven't seen much of either player and don't imagine many people here have, but by most accounts they seem to be similar types of players/prospects, with Strome having the better skill package.

At a year younger, Strome's already been outproducing him 2 years in a row. You can say that it was attributed to lack of opportunity in Kitchener for Bunnaman, but at the same time Strome had to deal with team's top lines more consistently and was still able to finish leading his team in scoring as a 17 year old with less support.

Bunnaman just seems like Strome, in general, but with less talent and producing less at a year senior to boot. Outside of the skating talk, which isn't a particular strength for Bunnaman either, what am I missing? The bias against Strome here has been more than obvious from the get-go but there's gotta more to it than that. Strome and Hogberg seem a tier up here.

 

[Striiker]

Because Strome has a MASSIVE roadblock stopping him from getting to the NHL. It's probably harder for him to fix his skating than it is for Bunnaman to continue progressing and becoming a potential NHL player.

Of course we all hope he can fix his skating and I do like him as a prospect, but until we see real progress it's just too big of a flaw to ignore.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I voted Bunnaman because I simply value Captain Dave's feelings too much to allow this to go on any longer

You are obviously the man

**** him and his salmon eating ways. I voted Hogberg.

I will let you in on a little secret, some inside information that Big Salmon doesn't want you to know. When you go full polar, you don't just break wind - you shatter it.

I hereby fart in your general direction.

 

[tymed]

Because Strome has a MASSIVE roadblock stopping him from getting to the NHL. It's probably harder for him to fix his skating than it is for Bunnaman to continue progressing and becoming a potential NHL player.

Of course we all hope he can fix his skating and I do like him as a prospect, but until we see real progress it's just too big of a flaw to ignore.

It seems like the whole skating thing is blown a bit out of the water. Sure his skating may be bad but how unfixable can it be that he's still good enough at 17 to lead an OHL team in scoring and at nearly a point per game as a winger. From everything I've read, he's trusted in all situations as well, which would also be odd for someone with truly terrible mobility. The thing here is that if he can become even a "decent" skater compared to now, average per say, like Bunnaman, which is highly likely, then he blows Bunnaman out of the conversation because he's equal to or better than him in every other facet of skill, size, IQ, and track record, etc. If Bunnaman was a +skater it would make the conversation more doable to me but that's not the case. Strome is a better prospect in almost every way outside of skating, which an older Bunnaman has a very slight, by all accounts, advantage in.

This time next year, I'd put a pretty strong guarantee that Strome makes some leaps up the list compared to Bunny. This isn't intended as a slight to Bunnaman, who I also like as a prospect. I think Strome is being very heavily underrated to be compared to him, that's all.

 

[Rebels57]

It seems like the whole skating thing is blown a bit out of the water. Sure his skating may be bad but how unfixable can it be that he's still good enough at 17 to lead an OHL team in scoring and at nearly a point per game as a winger. From everything I've read, he's trusted in all situations as well, which would also be odd for someone with truly terrible mobility. The thing here is that if he can become even a "decent" skater compared to now, average per say, like Bunnaman, which is highly likely, then he blows Bunnaman out of the conversation because he's equal to or better than him in every other facet of skill, size, IQ, and track record, etc. If Bunnaman was a +skater it would make the conversation more doable to me but that's not the case. Strome is a better prospect in almost every way outside of skating, which an older Bunnaman has a very slight, by all accounts, advantage in.

This time next year, I'd put a pretty strong guarantee that Strome makes some leaps up the list compared to Bunny. This isn't intended as a slight to Bunnaman, who I also like as a prospect. I think Strome is being very heavily underrated to be compared to him, that's all.

His skating issues are not overblown.

He makes his brother Dylan look like Pavel Bure, and Dylans skating might keep him from being a 1C.

He might shoot up the rankings next summer if it improves but as of right now, Bunnaman is more likely to make the NHL in some capacity until Strome proves otherwise.

 

[kelmitchell]

Went with bunny and next will be hogzilla

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I think Dylan being a perimeter player probably limits him the most. If he just used his size more to get to those tough areas he'd probably more so live up to his potential. When you're a big guy who knows how to use that to your adavantage you don't need to skate circles around people.

Patrick isn't going to wow people with his skating either but he's a big kid who's probably going to grow some more & more importantly knows how to use his size.

 

[deadhead]

I have a suspicion Patrick is going to surprise us with his skating, the last time he's skated healthy was two years ago, and he's a lot stronger since then, won't surprise me at all if he is a top notch skater (for his size) at this point, not that he'll win races with Frost, but that he'll be able to keep up with most NHL forwards.

 

[Striiker]

It seems like the whole skating thing is blown a bit out of the water. Sure his skating may be bad but how unfixable can it be that he's still good enough at 17 to lead an OHL team in scoring and at nearly a point per game as a winger. From everything I've read, he's trusted in all situations as well, which would also be odd for someone with truly terrible mobility. The thing here is that if he can become even a "decent" skater compared to now, average per say, like Bunnaman, which is highly likely, then he blows Bunnaman out of the conversation because he's equal to or better than him in every other facet of skill, size, IQ, and track record, etc. If Bunnaman was a +skater it would make the conversation more doable to me but that's not the case. Strome is a better prospect in almost every way outside of skating, which an older Bunnaman has a very slight, by all accounts, advantage in.

This time next year, I'd put a pretty strong guarantee that Strome makes some leaps up the list compared to Bunny. This isn't intended as a slight to Bunnaman, who I also like as a prospect. I think Strome is being very heavily underrated to be compared to him, that's all.

I don't think it's overblown at all... his skating is truly awful.

It's not impossible for him to improve, in fact I'm sure he will, but the question is: will it improve enough? I know lots of people think of skating as an easily fixable issue, but look at how many players in the league are poor skaters... if it were that easy to fix then everyone would. Sure, it's easier to improve that than it is to fix a low hockey IQ or lack of skill, but you can't assume he'll be able to improve enough. We'll just have to see.

He can score in the OHL because it's nowhere near as fast as the NHL. Being skilled and smart is enough there, but it isn't in the NHL. You can get away with having two of the three (smarts, skills, skating) in junior. Just look at how often prospects say that the biggest adjustment is the speed of the game... and that even comes from players who have plus skating.

And yeah, if his skating can become on par with Bunnaman's (which is just mediocre, yeah) then he'll probably be the better prospect, but personally I'll wait until I see some improvement first before putting him ahead.


TLDR: Yes, he'll be a much better prospect if his skating improves, but it's not improved yet, so we have to wait and see.

 

[Larry44]

It seems like the whole skating thing is blown a bit out of the water. Sure his skating may be bad but how unfixable can it be that he's still good enough at 17 to lead an OHL team in scoring and at nearly a point per game as a winger. From everything I've read, he's trusted in all situations as well, which would also be odd for someone with truly terrible mobility. The thing here is that if he can become even a "decent" skater compared to now, average per say, like Bunnaman, which is highly likely, then he blows Bunnaman out of the conversation because he's equal to or better than him in every other facet of skill, size, IQ, and track record, etc. If Bunnaman was a +skater it would make the conversation more doable to me but that's not the case. Strome is a better prospect in almost every way outside of skating, which an older Bunnaman has a very slight, by all accounts, advantage in.

This time next year, I'd put a pretty strong guarantee that Strome makes some leaps up the list compared to Bunny. This isn't intended as a slight to Bunnaman, who I also like as a prospect. I think Strome is being very heavily underrated to be compared to him, that's all.

Strome is a heckuva player, and he's a lot bigger than Bunnaman too, and may still have some growth to go. For as bad as his skating is, he gets into position and makes plays. He seems to be able to keep up enough to break away on a 2 on 1, etc. and when he gets the puck he makes great plays or shots with it.

He will need to get better all around on his skating, but big guys take time. He has two yrs of Jr left, and lots of time to improve his skating.

 

[deadhead]

The issue with skating is that the NHL is a lot faster than a decade ago, even five years ago - remember how defensemen like Grossman and L Schenn went from physical defensemen to slugs as the game sped up around them?

The issue you'll have with any PF who is a below average skater is two-fold, one is forechecking, if the defenseman can get to the puck and have time to clear, then the forecheck won't work, the second is backchecking, if the puck goes the other direction and everyone literally passes you by, your team is playing 4 against 5 for a couple seconds while you lumber up ice, trailing the play, time for the other team to set up in your O-zone.

A big slow guy can still make plays if he has time to get to and set up near the net where size and hands can make a difference - but he'll be a liability over the rest of the ice. So just having average speed can make a big difference.

 

[tymed]

His skating issues are not overblown.

He makes his brother Dylan look like Pavel Bure, and Dylans skating might keep him from being a 1C.

He might shoot up the rankings next summer if it improves but as of right now, Bunnaman is more likely to make the NHL in some capacity until Strome proves otherwise.

Suppose that lies within your interpretation of how bad his skating truly is vs likeliness to overcome vs how advanced the rest of his skillset and talent is and how it might all translate down the line. Far from fact. I know you don't mean to suggest this ranking is about who is likely at this moment to make an impact or not, because as of right now Bunnaman isn't even as likely to make the impact that Strome will next year in the OHL, let alone NHL. So you're suggesting that Bunnaman is a given to improve all facets of skill and such but Strome is not a given to improve his skating from where it is. It's the projection and today I easily project that Strome is more likely to improve his skating enough vs Bunnaman's average at best skating and his likeliness to become as skilled at Strome in other other facets + size.

 

[Stizzle]

Strome is a heckuva player, and he's a lot bigger than Bunnaman too, and may still have some growth to go.

I saw them both at the beach last week. Bunnaman looked really, really big. Hockeydb has him at 6'3 and 214lbs. Which seems totally legit from what I saw. At the combine Strome was 6'3.5 and 206lbs.

 

[tymed]

The issue with skating is that the NHL is a lot faster than a decade ago, even five years ago - remember how defensemen like Grossman and L Schenn went from physical defensemen to slugs as the game sped up around them?

The issue you'll have with any PF who is a below average skater is two-fold, one is forechecking, if the defenseman can get to the puck and have time to clear, then the forecheck won't work, the second is backchecking, if the puck goes the other direction and everyone literally passes you by, your team is playing 4 against 5 for a couple seconds while you lumber up ice, trailing the play, time for the other team to set up in your O-zone.

A big slow guy can still make plays if he has time to get to and set up near the net where size and hands can make a difference - but he'll be a liability over the rest of the ice. So just having average speed can make a big difference.

This is ignoring how IQ plays into the game and the entire flow of how each player finds themselves in different spots at different times around the ice, among so many other factors. You're making a valid point but painting such a bland picture of it. And this is about a - skater vs another - skater. One is a year younger, with imo higher hockey IQ, more skill, and more room to physically mature strength-wise.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I saw them both at the beach last week. Bunnaman looked really, really big. Hockeydb has him at 6'3 and 214lbs. Which seems totally legit from what I saw. At the combine Strome was 6'3.5 and 206lbs.

Eliteprospects has him at 6'1" 207 lbs. that's probably where the confusion comes from. They didn't update Morin's growth for the longest time neither. They had him at 6'6" 210 lbs up until the last year or so.

The OHL site lists Bunnaman at 6'3" 214 lbs. like you said. He's definitely a huge kid. From watching him he dwarfs a lot of the players on the ice when he's out there.

 

[Tripod]

I saw them both at the beach last week. Bunnaman looked really, really big. Hockeydb has him at 6'3 and 214lbs. Which seems totally legit from what I saw. At the combine Strome was 6'3.5 and 206lbs.

And fat

 

[deadhead]

This is ignoring how IQ plays into the game and the entire flow of how each player finds themselves in different spots at different times around the ice, among so many other factors. You're making a valid point but painting such a bland picture of it. And this is about a - skater vs another - skater. One is a year younger, with imo higher hockey IQ, more skill, and more room to physically mature strength-wise.

The faster you skate (and accelerate and move laterally) the more margin for error you have, but there is a minimum threshold, below which no hockey IQ will protect you, because even if you know where to go, your legs won't get you there on time.

Which is why no one has claimed Strome must become a good skater, he merely has to become an average skater and not be three strides behind the play.

 

[tymed]

At this point in the polls I try to think about it more clearly as who I'd rather have in the prospect pool, given that I could only choose one. The answer for me is really clear when it's broken down to that.

 

[tymed]

The faster you skate (and accelerate and move laterally) the more margin for error you have, but there is a minimum threshold, below which no hockey IQ will protect you, because even if you know where to go, your legs won't get you there on time.

Which is why no one has claimed Strome must become a good skater, he merely has to become an average skater and not be three strides behind the play.

Well that's another point forsure. And exactly, I dont think Strome will become a + skater and I don't think Bunny will either. Strome takes the rest for the game for me though.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Strome could very well end up being a project. But his skating issues are correctable as long as he is willing to put in the work. Will it be enough to catch up to some of the other prospects he is competing with? hard to say, but the first step is getting to work this summer on his skating. the other tools are there.

 

[Magua]

For the sake of discussion, I'm really curious why so many are choosing Bunnaman over Strome? I haven't seen much of either player and don't imagine many people here have, but by most accounts they seem to be similar types of players/prospects, with Strome having the better skill package.

At a year younger, Strome's already been outproducing him 2 years in a row. You can say that it was attributed to lack of opportunity in Kitchener for Bunnaman, but at the same time Strome had to deal with team's top lines more consistently and was still able to finish leading his team in scoring as a 17 year old with less support.

Bunnaman just seems like Strome, in general, but with less talent and producing less at a year senior to boot. Outside of the skating talk, which isn't a particular strength for Bunnaman either, what am I missing? The bias against Strome here has been more than obvious from the get-go but there's gotta more to it than that. Strome and Hogberg seem a tier up here.

I've seen them both a decent amount, and I have them pretty much grouped together, so I don't think it's as large a divide as you are making it out. I like both. Think they're similar in many respects; think either could leapfrog the other or both pan out similarly. I'm not betting against Strome; I'm in his corner. But they were both picked in the same spot at the draft; Bunnaman as more a projection pick; Strome as a surprise faller. I don't think it's outlandish to prefer either one. Bunnaman certainly has shown the projections were right.

I don't think their skill level is that far apart, though yes slight edge to Strome. Bunnaman's assist totals weren't great, but I know he has soft hands and is a decent passer (though Strome is better). I am willing to say I think that was fluky. Goals go up 21, assists go down 7? I'll take the over next year. It's true that Strome's D-1 and D stats are basically a year ahead of where Bunnaman was, but as we know projection isn't linear. And it's true that Bunnaman played on deeper teams, where he didn't get the usage Strome got out of the gate. If Strome puts up 40 goals and 80 points next year, hey, building a further case......but it's possible his scoring doesn't increase either.

It's really hard to watch Kitchener games and Bunnaman doesn't stand out on a shift to shift basis. Light bulbs go off for me when I watch him. He does have center versatility, though I'm not projecting him as one -- but his IQ isn't much behind Strome's to me. He's always around the play and an intelligent player himself. I think he drove his line a bit more than Strome. Bunny's footwork/edges are legit pluses. He's a touch below average skater himself up ice, but he is certainly within range of average and has shown improvement. Strome's skating is well below average in all respects; he needs a lot more work, and people who've followed him say it hasn't improved much. I like the conditioning angle though as a silver lining. Doesn't mean it can't improve, but like it or not, it scared a lot of teams off. I also think Bunnaman plays grittier and with more energy. Strome's not soft, goes to the dirty areas, but he can be a bit low energy at times, even besides the skating.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

[/B]

And fat

And with a face like a swollen foot.

 

[Striiker]

[/B]

And fat

Poor kid looks like he was stung by bees or is allergic to peanuts and ate a PB&J.

Maybe both.

 

[Jray42]

Voted Hogberg