2017-18 Detroit Red Wings Grades

Discussion in 'Detroit Red Wings' started by Redder Winger, Apr 6, 2018.

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  1. Redder Winger

    Redder Winger Registered User

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    Ken Holland, F - Tried to rectify a massive failure by trading Tatar at the end of the year. But even that success was nullified by the failure to move Green. At the end of the year, Detroit didn't do much developing this year, outside of Larkin and Bertuzzi. Our prospects suffered in the AHL. We don't have many, if any, blue chippers in the organization. And we have an old, expensive, cruddy team that somehow still plays ahead of many of the younger players in the organization.
    Jeff Blashill, F - No business coaching in the NHL. He has no system. He overplayed Zetterberg for what? To finish 5th from the bottom? He overplayed Howard. He underplayed Athanasiou. He let Ouellet rot in the press box while overplaying Jensen, Kronwall, Ericsson, Daley, etc. He didn't win. And he didn't do much development.

    Dylan Larkin, A - Good season for Dylan and he even managed to find some goal scoring moxy at the end of the year. Was given every opportunity, played through the tough times and made good on it.

    Zetterberg, B - Raw production is pretty nice, but his underlying numbers have declined a lot. He's one of the lowest-producing high minute guys in the NHL. Wasn't a fan of Z calling out "kids" for not performing earlier this year, in a year when veterans have underperformed.

    Mantha, B- - The point production looks good. But this kid gets 17 minutes a night. When he makes glaring errors, he still comes out and plays big minutes. He probably makes more glaring mistakes than any other forward on the team. Too often, he's simply invisible.

    Nyquist, C - You'd think he was a Hart Trophy candidate listening to Fox Sports. 20 goals and 40 points with top 20 5 on 5 and PP minutes in the NHL? Yuck. This guy doesn't get enough out of his skill.

    Abdelkader, C - Slumped to the finish after a nice start. A nice all-around player. Needs to be better at $4M/Y though -- especially given his PP time.

    Athanasiiou, C - Production was OK, considering minutes. Totally misused in Detroit. When Blashill rode him, he was a thoroughbred. The most entertaining and positive games this team had this year came in those stretches when AA played big minutes. But AA doesn't help himself. Looked listeless on Nielsen's wing. Blashill's a dip****, but he's the coach and it looks like he's coming back. Hope the Red Wings trade Athanasiou for peanuts and regret the trade for a decade. But AA needs to find a way to jumpstart his motor.

    Nielsen, D - Guy plays a semi-defensive role and managed to be a player, so that's a positive. But he's a $5M+ guy. Not enough. This guy simply doesn't do enough with his icetime to justify his contract.

    Green, D - 33 points in 66 games is nice, but the effort on display this year was hard to watch. He needs to disappear.

    Helm, B- A healthy season, Helm put up decent numbers by his standards and was a plus player. Still struggled by the standards of his contract.

    Kronwall, D- - Credit the old guy for trying to live up to his contract. And he's still our best passing defenseman. But despite the easiest deployment on the team, Kronwall just can't get it done anymore. He never shoots the puck, despite all those Ozone draws. He's making more mistakes and he's less able to recover from them.

    Frk, B- - Young guy near the minimum. He scored 11 goals in limited time and put up more points than Bertuzzi in the same minutes. But Frk got a ton of first unit PP time and didn't do much with it. Having Glendening as his center most of the year doesn't do much for him. Another Blashill mistake.

    Bertuzzi, B+ - Spent the last 20 games on the top line - though he never really deserved that callup -- and he's been really good. He has 13 points in 19 games since the end of February. Works hard. Plays the boards well without being dirty or undisciplined. Has the intelligence in the Ozone to play with topline guys, and has soft hands. Skating wise, he's never going to be the guy you want carrying the puck. He's also too scrambly in his own end. But he's been good.

    Glendening, C - Glendening continued to be a beast on faceoffs and play the PK. Unfortunately, he was stuck on an incoherent fourth line with Marty Frk - and that limited his icetime. Played well on the PK.

    Daley, C- - Was at his best when Mike Green went down (the first time). But spent most of the year chasing guys around his own zone, and not looking very look doing it. Hopefully the Wings can move him next season and not wait til the deadline of his final year.

    Jensen, C- - Constantly abused in his own zone. Looks like a player on the rush once every 10 games or so. But he's a cheap player. Expectations are low.

    Ericsson, C - At times, Ericsson has looked surprisingly good this year. Then there were games like last night. His +/- has been abused over the last three weeks. He's -9 in 11 games.

    Dekeyser, C+ - Dekeyser stabilized his game after a brutal year last year. He managed to be, barely, a plus player. Dekeyser's strength was skating, and he's lost a lot of that as he's bulked up for the NHL game.

    Ouellet, C - Didn't play much. Not sure why. Not NCAA enough for Blashill. What a waste. There's no reason this kid doesn't play 18 minutes a game on a ****show team like Detroit.

    David Booth, C - Hard to complain about Booth. Scored a little. Wasn't as physical as he was in the preaseason.

    Svechnikov, C - After a rough start at least looked competent. Kid desperately needs to improve his skating. But that was true last year, too. He's going to be in the KHL soon if he can't improve his skating.

    Witkowski, C- - Lots of dumb penalties. Not much else.

    Howard, C- - Great start. One of the worst goalies after the opening six weeks.
     
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  2. njx9

    njx9 Registered User

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    I have no idea why a guy who would sit in the box on nearly every other NHL team causes you so much consternation.

    Elsewhere, I'm happy that Nyquist finally started shooting more after the last two years of declining shots and shooting %. I'm utterly unconcerned about the assist numbers, given how putrid the rest of the team is on offense and PP - as long as he keeps his shooting up, the points and assists will come once the talent level on the team gets better.
     
  3. NickH8

    NickH8 Registered User

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    You can't blame Holland for not moving Green. Other teams saw the medical reports and ran away. Nobody wants to pay up for a rental who could go down any minute. Holland got us into this mess with ****ty contracts, but recently he has been doing a decent job building for the future and stockpiling picks. I don't agree with a lot of the picks they are making, but at least they have the right mindset. Holland gets a B from me, as much as I would have preferred for someone to take his place.
     
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  4. Redder Winger

    Redder Winger Registered User

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    Well, there was the deadline in 17. There was the offseason. There was October through February.

    If you wait until the very deadline to move someone, don't be surprised if the unexpected foils your plans.

    It's like waiting until the night before to do your homework or your project and then blaming a power failure.
     
  5. NickH8

    NickH8 Registered User

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    There's no way Holland could have predicted Green would get the injury he got. At the time it made sense to wait until his value was at it's highest, which is at the deadline when he only has one year left and teams know if they are contenders or not.
    You say Green is terrible and want him out, yet you think people would have traded for him when he still had another year left on his contract in 2017. If Green is such a defensive liability, why would teams trade for him at $6mil and have him take a younger, cost controlled guys spot for a whole other season?
     
  6. Hen Kolland

    Hen Kolland Registered User

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    Disagree. Let's say you have a project to work on and its deadline is 3 months from today, you know it has to be done in 3 months. If you finish early or if you finish last second, that project isn't changing value at all. That project will still be worth X% of your grade regardless of when you begin.

    This is more like investing in Bitcoin, if you will. Your Bitcoin is worth X right now, but the market trend indicates that in 3 months that same Bitcoin would be worth 5X. Sometimes the market exceeds expectation and people make millions off that investment, other times the housing market pops and you lose everything. There was no indication that Green's value was going to implode. If you believe that moving players 1-2 years before their final year's deadline, that's a perfectly fine approach, but you run the risk of trading someone and watching the market for that position, or that specific player, explode and missing out on a substantially better return.

    There's a fine line to walk with it, and that's why people who work the stock exchange successfully are in high demand. And even then, those people still fail to make the right decision every time. I don't fault Holland or his approach to Green this year, but I still reserve the right to be upset that we couldn't find a deal to be made.
     
  7. Redder Winger

    Redder Winger Registered User

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    So you tell me.
    What did Ken Holland gain from waiting until the deadline?

    At best, how much extra does Holland get for trading green at the deadline?
    Compared to how much he lost.

    I hope the next GM has a smarter approach with Daley.
     
  8. Frk It

    Frk It From Z to Z

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    It’s kind of like homework. Except everyone else also does their homework right before the deadline. And your teacher gives you a better grade the later you do it.
     
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  9. kliq

    kliq Registered User

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    So just to be clear? Are you saying that that GM's should always trade players prior to the trade deadline?
     
  10. Hen Kolland

    Hen Kolland Registered User

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    That's just a stupid argument. Do you look back at every decision that anyone has ever made and say "WOW! Look how stupid they were to do ______" just because they thought they were doing the right thing? He didn't gain anything, but you are looking at this with one perspective that just so happens to perfectly fit your argument. I'm obviously not saying he made the best choice in retrospect, but for you to put every bit of blame on him is ridiculous. We don't know exactly what he lost, and we don't know how much we would've gained had he traded him early or if Green was healthy. That's the point I'm making, it all comes down to an educated guess on how the market pans out. I'm sure if they traded him for a second and a third at the halfway mark, and then Dion Phaneuf returned a first and a second at the deadline, you'd be crucifying him for selling too early and not being able to get market value.
     
  11. Winger98

    Winger98 powers combined

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    Unless Holland really wanted to look forward on it and dealt Green at the previous draft or the beginning of UFA season last summer. He arguably could have gotten more at that point, pointing towards the fact that Green would be around the entire season to help whoever was dealing for him.
     
  12. Hen Kolland

    Hen Kolland Registered User

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    And nobody is discrediting this as a legitimate option, but you also can't fault a GM for NOT doing this. Also, we have to keep in mind that paying Green's salary at a prorated, likely retained clip after the deadline is immensely more appealing to different ownership than it would be taking on Green's full annual salary because I doubt Holland would've retained on a full year's worth of salary.
     
  13. lilidk

    lilidk Registered User

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    team was healthy this year , and why do you think it is , because they didn't tried . You miss Blush , or you gave him S , doesn't meter. My only hope is Z and Kroner gone next year , so kids will try become leaders
     
  14. dragonballgtz

    dragonballgtz Registered User

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    Larkin B+ : He made the switch nicely but his shot needs work.

    Mantha B- : Scoring goals is nice but a lot of his game needs work badly. He'll be 24 next season so the rest of his game really needs to start coming together.

    Athanasiou C : Didn't seem like he improved on his game at all. If he wasn't on the rush then he was just skating in circles in his own zone. He did play center at the start of the season, maybe that's why he looked lost at times?

    Frk C : He has a slap shot and that's about it.

    Bertuzzi B+ : His first real taste of NHL action and he seemed to improve as time went on which is a great sign.

    Rest of the team and staff F : Everyone else players, coaching staff, and upper management sucks. Would have been an F- but Holland did get extra picks
     
  15. Shaman464

    Shaman464 #FireHolland

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    Dylan Larkin, A+ - Kept it going all year, emerged as a leader and cemented his role as future top 6 (but unlikely #1) center.

    Zetterberg, A - Given his age, and how much has been asked of him, you can't expect him to do anything more.

    Mantha, B - Good production, needs game to game consistency.

    Nyquist, C- - Too much money for a guy who doesn't do much more than any middle 6 forward in the league. This year was no exception to his normal meh ways.

    Abdelkader, C+/B- - First time he's shown he can really produce without Datsyuk. Was one of my least favorite players, now I kinda like him. Definitely overpaid, but still better than expected.

    Athanasiiou, D, His production, shooting percentage, goals per 60, point shares, Corsi and Fenwick all dropped this year. People like Redder will blame the coach, but looking at his game log, his streaks look pretty independent of his linemates/TOI. He was either scoring in bursts, or spending stretches of 10+ games not producing. For the **** he pulled before the season, there is no excuse for his lack of compete and taking most nights off.

    Nielsen, F- Guy is a third line center being paid like a top 6 center, and producing like an energy guy.

    Green, C - Production was great, defense was... well what you would expect from Mike Green. .

    Helm, C+, Not worth his contract or the minutes he gets, but still a decent roleplayer.

    Kronwall, D, Has become a pylon. Should hang them up.

    Frk, B, Good for the amount of time he played, needs more of a chance.

    Bertuzzi, B - Better than I expected, but wondering how he does without two offensive players on him. For his age (23) not world burning production.

    Glendening, C - Is what he is.

    Daley, D, Didn't really bring much for his contract size or length.

    Jensen, F - How is he in the NHL?

    Ericsson, C- - Looked good by comparison, but was still a bottom 6 defender on any decent team.

    Dekeyser, C+ , Was never going to be a top pairing guy, not his fault Holland paid him like one. As a middle pairing D-man, he's pretty much what you'd expect.


    Witkowski, C- Hell at least he was entertaining!

    Howard, D - .910 save percentage, doesn't make big saves, and still a headcase who is made of glass. But for a tank, whatever.
     
  16. Spitfire11

    Spitfire11 Registered User

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    Ken Holland - tough to say : An idiot could tell there was no way this team was competing for the playoffs, and moves should have been made last offseason, but the blame for that likely belongs more with the entire management team and higher ups. His in season moves have all been positive.

    Blashill - B- : this is without a doubt the most talentless team in the league yet they aren't 31st. That has to count for something towards the coaching. Personally, I wouldn't complain about the effort I've seen from the team either. It would have been nice to see some of the younger players develop more, but IMO it's the players themselves are more at fault for that. The ones worth a damn (Larkin/Bertuzzi) have both shown progress.

    Larkin - A : good year from the one bright spot for the future
    Zetterberg - B+ : can't ask much more from him at this stage in his career
    Mantha - B : plays a similar game to Franzen, if they can get good value in the offseason I'd trade him
    Bertuzzi - B+ : done a good job with the opportunities given, looks like he'll have a spot for next year
    Athanasiou - C- : the most exciting player on the team, but awful IQ/decision making and effort at times as well. Another that is hopefully traded while his value is there.
    Nyquist - D+ : ****ty season
    Nielsen - C : kills minutes on the clock without anything happening, a quintessential player on a basement team
    Helm - B : decent season staying healthy. Miss the days when he was a forecheck nightmare for opponents
    Abdelkader - C+ : sub par season from him
    Witkowski - A : might be a terrible player but his fights were the most entertaining part of the season

    Ericsson - B : surprisingly good season from him especially with the role he was asked to play
    Daley - B : played as well as can be expected of him in his role
    Green - F : for getting injured when we needed him most
    Dekeyser - C+ : maybe it's just the bad players he's had to partner with
    Jensen - C : a good reminder not to get enamored with just speed
    Kronwall - C : as expected
     
  17. Redder Winger

    Redder Winger Registered User

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    If you are going to call other argument's stupid, try not to resort to the inane "you'd be *****ing either way."
    I advocated for trading Green last year at the deadline. So I doubt I'd have *****ed if Holland did exactly what I wanted.
    Just like I am advocating for trading Daley at any point in which we can move him.
    I don't really care if someone says "oh, but the market is best at the deadline." First of all, that seems more like a myth. Secondly, it doesn't take into account the considerable risk (that a player will get hurt and be immovable).

    So, I'm sorry if you think that's stupid.
     
  18. Redder Winger

    Redder Winger Registered User

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    If they don't have a real need, sure.

    What's the difference. If you feel the return is worth it -- hanging on to get more is kind of time.
    First of all, the market can change. There's no guarantee that your asset gains value as you near the deadline.
    Karlsson and McDonough can join the market out of nowhere.

    If you're selling in December consider the following:
    You might be one of 2-3 sellers in December.
    If you wait until February, there might be 15 sellers.

    There's also demand to think about.
    In December, a team like the Islanders may still be a buyer. They're still in the playoff hunt. By late February, reality has set in.
    So waiting until the trade deadline could increase supply and reduce demand.

    The one real advantage you have is cap space. But a team like Detroit had the ability to take money back or eat contract.

    Frankly, we haven't seen trade deadline bidding wars in decades. Since Ray Bourque.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018
  19. Redder Winger

    Redder Winger Registered User

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    Except that's bull****.
    Show me the evidence.
     
  20. brutefm

    brutefm Registered User

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    You really think Holland gets a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for Tatar at any other point in the season?
     
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  21. Redder Winger

    Redder Winger Registered User

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    Tatar makes my point.
    You think you get a 1st, 2nd and 3rd for Tatar if you wait until the deadline before his UFA?
     
  22. CaptainCrosscheck

    CaptainCrosscheck Registered User

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    Just about every GM in every professional league waits until the deadline to sell.

    You might have a point if Holland had a good offer for Green in December but there wasnt anything to indicate he did.
     
  23. Frk It

    Frk It From Z to Z

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    Right. Or we think it’s a coincidence a huge % of the trades between Jan-June happen every year on the deadline day?

    It makes sense to do deals on that day for a bunch of reasons.
     
  24. Hen Kolland

    Hen Kolland Registered User

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    I don't want you to get upset over the fact that I disagreed with an argument that used hindsight as it's number one source of support. Every single bad move in the history of the sport could be prevented if they just knew how it was going to play out down the road. There are certain situations where I would agree with you 100%. Hell, I would've been all aboard with trading Green last year because I don't think he's particularly good, but you can't fault a GM for **** luck and a busted up spine. There are so many variables that go into a decision.

    If it makes you feel any better, can you imagine all the David Booth's and Luke Witkowski's we could be playing right now if Holland was able to shed Green's $6m a year ago. There's a good chance that we'd have another middle-aged, entering twilight years forward that would've prevented Bertuzzi from having a chance to establish a key role on the team. Some moves have blessings in disguise...if you're into bottom five finishes and bleak futures that is.
     
  25. Ingvar

    Ingvar Registered User

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    Can we stop with the BS? You sell your most valuable assets in the offseason, at the trade deadline or never. Yes, you miss out once in a while, but you don't change winning strategy in an odds-based game because you happened to lose a round.
     

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