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2016 MLB Award Ballots

c9777666

Registered User
Aug 31, 2016
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Voight said:
I can't wait to hear the reasoning behind this one. :popcorn: :help: :laugh:
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1. Even if you ignore the meaninglessness of RBI, Betts leads in a lot of key offensive statistics- hits, extra base hits, runs, doubles, Home runs, total bases. Those are meaningful stats that you can't gloss over just because Trout has great WAR. Yeah, he has WAR, but what else does he have besides that and OBP? Those stats alone aren't gonna sway me. This isn't the Percentage Award.

2. Impact moments- Where is Mike Trout's impact moment or MVP showcase moment this year? Betts' many HR's at Camden Yards in games which arguably ended up being a reason the Red Sox aren't going to Toronto for a one-game showdown) essentially impacted the toughest division in baseball this year. Meanwhile, Trout didn't have a real signature moment this year other than passing guys on the all-time WAR list. Where was his equivalent of Betts' 3 HR game in Baltimore, Max Scherzer striking out 20 Tigers, or Kris Bryant's 3 HR 2 double game in June? We remember games like THAT.

3. Defense. Betts in right field has been very good defensively this year. Trout also plays good centerfield D, but Betts wasn't exactly a defensive liability. It's not like he was playing the infield or a slow-footed position defensively (ala the hotly-debated Cabrera/Trout MVP talks of a few years ago).

Forgive me if you will, but I believe Betts' total offensive package should not be discounted just because Mike Trout has great WAR, which is not the end-all be-all stat in baseball.

After all, David Price had a higher pitcher WAR than Jon Lester, but the way they pitched this year, there is no way that Price was any bit as good as Lester this year.
 
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MS

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Mar 18, 2002
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ChrisK97 said:
1. Even if you ignore the meaninglessness of RBI, Betts leads in a lot of key offensive statistics- hits, extra base hits, runs, doubles, Home runs, total bases. Those are meaningful stats that you can't gloss over just because Trout has great WAR. Yeah, he has WAR, but what else does he have besides that and OBP? Those stats alone aren't gonna sway me. This isn't the Percentage Award.

2. Impact moments- Where is Mike Trout's impact moment or MVP showcase moment this year? Betts' many HR's at Camden Yards in meaningful games (which arguably ended up being a reason the Red Sox aren't going to Toronto for a one-game showdown) essentially impacted the toughest division in baseball this year. Meanwhile, Trout didn't have a real signature moment this year other than passing guys on the all-time WAR list. Where was his equivalent of Betts' 3 HR game in Baltimore or Kris Bryant's 3 HR 2 double game in June?

3. Defense. Betts in right field has been very good defensively this year. Trout also plays good centerfield D, but Betts wasn't exactly a defensive liability. It's not like he was playing the infield or a slow-footed position defensively (ala the hotly-debated Cabrera/Trout MVP talks of a few years ago).

Forgive me if you will, but I believe Betts' total offensive package should not be discounted just because Mike Trout has great WAR, which is not the end-all be-all stat in baseball.

After all, David Price had a higher pitcher WAR than Jon Lester, but the way they pitched this year, there is no way that Price was any bit as good as Lester this year.
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Yup.

Honestly, I think some people here would be happier if we did away with the MVP awards and just gave out a WAR of the Year award.

Trout is the best player in baseball and if this was a 'Most Outstanding Player' award, sure. But it's an MVP award. And what Betts did was more important to his team and the sport this year.

And Betts had a 9.6 WAR year. This isn't like George Bell winning over Wade Boggs. When there's a limited difference in WAR, in my eyes the award should go to a guy who is actually driving the success of his team.
 
robert terwilliger

robert terwilliger

the bart, the
Nov 14, 2005
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as i say every year, all you're doing is punishing a player for something he has no control over.

i'm sure mike trout would love to play in the postseason. he certainly did his part to make the team better. why is he being punished for his team being so bad?
 
Quid Pro Clowe

Quid Pro Clowe

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Dec 28, 2008
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By Cubs fans own arguments, I guess Ernie Banks was crap and didn't deserve his mvp's since he never played on a TEAM worth a damn.

#logic
 
Cubs2024WSChamps

Cubs2024WSChamps

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UNB Bruins Fan said:
I'm already getting excited for KBIB's rant after Bryant wins the MVP and Trout doesn't.
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I'll give it to you now since it's pretty much a lock at this point.

The whole "let's prop up Trout because he plays on a bad team yet, let's look down on Betts because he had a huge hand in making the Red Sox great because of a stacked team" is ridiculously foolish.

Saber metric zealots need Trout to win and are the only ones bleating on about it because it makes them more relevant. They seem to forget traditional stats will always be the biggest factor in a game steep in.....tradition. They think using the same metrics the GMs, like Theo Epstein use, they suddenly know more then everybody else.

Thing is, theyre the only ones using it. The media looks at the spectacle, Bryant's huge games and early September tear, Betts and Ortiz carrying the Red Sox, they aren't looking up WAR stats and boasting about it. That's just the SM heads.

Saber metrics were Debunked a couple years ago with the whole every out including strikeouts had the same value. Take into account Trout's OBP is insane because of walks, and Betts WAR looks even more impressive considering he had Ortiz behind him. Take into account Bryant had 1.2 wins over Freeman and Arenado while Trout only had a single Win over Betts, going by WAR, you can say Bryant had a better season then Trout considering Bryant played in the tougher league.

Not even mentioning Freddy Freeman should also be in the running playing on a horrible team.

Mike Trout was horrid in April, you know, when the Angels actually had a chance. Once they were done, which was like three weeks into the season, the pressure suddenly comes off and Trout exploded without any worry of the pressures of the national spotlight on him. Betts and Bryant, on the other hand, had to deal with carrying a team and being the gold standard on the gold standard team, respectively. That's quite the feat both pulled off.

Trout gets his props, he comes up a little short for MVP every year he just don't win it. Sure, second place is the first loser, but it's still second place.

Bryant on the other hand, has won major awards for possibly four years in a row in his respective league while so far, never bowing out come playoff time. It looks like being in the playoffs might be his birth right for the near future and it couldn't happen to a better person or team.

Like I said before, this is the Kris Bryant era. Trout just plays in it.
 
Quid Pro Clowe

Quid Pro Clowe

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I just don't understand how some value individuals based on team success in as sport where it takes all 25 players to be successful.

Seriously, as ass-backwards logically as possible.
 
Cubs2024WSChamps

Cubs2024WSChamps

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Clowe Me said:
I just don't understand how some value individuals based on team success in as sport where it takes all 25 players to be successful.

Seriously, as ass-backwards logically as possible.
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Maybe because those individuals were a huge reason for team success.
 
MurrayBannerman

MurrayBannerman

I post about baseball on a hockey forum
Feb 18, 2012
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Clowe Me said:
Why discredit players who don't have enough help on their own teams to make the playoffs?

Is it really Trout's fault he plays on a team managed so poorly?
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If he would have went to college, he'd be a smart guy now so yes.
 
Cubs2024WSChamps

Cubs2024WSChamps

Tate MacRae follows me on Tiktok
Apr 29, 2015
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Clowe Me said:
Why discredit players who don't have enough help on their own teams to make the playoffs?

Is it really Trout's fault he plays on a team managed so poorly?
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Why, just look at the prediction thread on this forum for this year.

From the looks of it, there were predictions that the Red Sox would be a last place team. Now, unless you are willing to state most of the posters here haven't a clue what they are talking about, then the assumption before the year started was that the Red Sox wernt in any shape to make the playoffs.

Why the sudden turn around? Betts and Ortiz. Both MVP candidates. Trout was pathetic in April when the Angels had a shot. As they went downward, Trout suddenly flourished. You can't blame Betts for the team he's on, he's a huge part of their success.

Trout had a great year on a bottom feeder, take him off, they are still a bottom feeder. It's not like Trout's impact changed anything where as Betts made a team picked and judged on just this forum alone, from a mediocre team into a playoff team.

And just pointing out, it was I who predicted the Red Sox to win the East.

#onestepahead
 

c9777666

Registered User
Aug 31, 2016
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I'm not gonna use the bottom feeder theory to discredit Trout, but as I said earlier, where is his MOMENT? Usually, when you win a major individual award, you have that defining game or standout hit/showing that makes people stand up.

Look at the NL Cy Young favorites- Scherzer's 20 strikeout game against the Tigers. Hendricks' near no-hitter and/or Lester's gem of a complete game against the Cardinals/Giants, respectively (all three of those games impacted the WC chase in both leagues given what happened with DET/STL/SF).

That's my real issue with Trout's MVP case- the lack of a standout moment. Since this is HFBoards, can anyone ever recall a Conn Smythe Trophy winner that didn't have a standout/memorable moment?

He has the WAR, he has OBP, but if someone can find a defining moment where Trout did something that really stood out, let me know.

Even in the AL West, his fellow sluggers had memorable moments- Cano had a big HR against the Red Sox that salvaged their season after a nightmare loss at Wrigley that sparked a late-season run in Seattle. Khris Davis' 3 HR game with a walkoff grand slam. Beltre/Odor had walkoff HR's in the 9th while trailing. Seager had big moments at the plate and in the field. Even Pujols had a couple of walkoff HR's.
 
darko

darko

Registered User
Feb 16, 2009
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Clowe Me said:
I just don't understand how some value individuals based on team success in as sport where it takes all 25 players to be successful.

Seriously, as ass-backwards logically as possible.
Click to expand...


Yeah this isn't NBA where 1 player can make a big difference.
 
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